Hakka and Wing Chun

[Kong Jianshen]

Hi all. I been wondering if anyone knows of any Wing Chun styles partly influenced by the Hakka styles or vice versa? It just seems to me that it would be very likely there was a sharing of information there. Center line, rapid fire attack, trapping, low kicks, the oddly simimliar sticking hands, etc the list can go on. Thanks in advance!

Always seeking to learn,
Kong Jianshen
Humble disciple of the ancient Boxing Arts

[kung fu fighter]

Hi,

For you guys that train the Hakka Arts such as White Crane, Jook Lum S.P.M., Bak Mei, Lung Ying, etc.

what are some of your percieved weaknesses of the wing chun system?

[Ao Qin]

I'm no expert of course, but as a very general reply through some limited experience I would start with the "mobility" issue...(from a LY perspective).

However, there is no general "Hakka Art" approach...LY would approach combat VERY differently than a BM student. The key is recognizing the "soul" of the system. Who were the arts founded by? What were the founder's backgrounds? How did they live their lives? What were their beliefs? Did they follow any particular system of morals / values? E.G. - compare the life and teachings of Mohammed to the life and teachings of Jesus. Are there any differences? This can be extrapolated onto even the small area of "Hakka" martial arts. Compare the life experiences and beliefs between LYK with CLC to start. I'm sure similiar differences abound in the Southern Mantis community.

Back to the point in question, WC is a very linear - forward pressing system. Very fast too. But if one uses circular techniques in a clever way (e.g. how can you "deflect" a soy kiew?), an attacker may be able to get past WC's excellent defenses. Also, using the three bridge theory - destabilizing the legs through "checking", sweeping...etc., may help to overcome a WC'er.

WC is very limited in what they focus on compared to most arts - but what they focus on is top notch in my opinion - an excellent system of counter-offensive movement. WC, like most Hakka Arts dilegently practiced as a lifestyle (not career), will enable a person to defend themselves against your average mugger, rapist, etc.

Ultimately, it's not the style, but the person - how hard they train, how adaptable they are mentally, etc. But even more importantly - the central question should be; does the art one is practicing contribute towards a longer, healthier, enlightening and more productive (benefiting more than just ourselves) life?!? If not, the "art" is pretty much garbage.

la - aq

[kung fu fighter]

WC is a very linear - forward pressing system. Very fast too. But if one uses circular techniques in a clever way (e.g. how can you "deflect" a soy kiew?), an attacker may be able to get past WC's excellent defenses. Also, using the three bridge theory - destabilizing the legs through "checking", sweeping...etc., may help to overcome a WC'er.

Hi,

What exactly is a soy kiew?

Can you give us some examples of how one could use circular techniques in a clever way to attack a wing chun fighter?

Wing chun has chi gerk to defend against leg checks, and sweeps!

Here is something for you Jook Lum S.P.M. buffs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZHpJUC2B_g

[TenTigers]

From my experience (which is limited, I admit) it seems that the Wing Chun practitioners cannot "change energy", meaning, that once they throw their hand, it is done. If a Jook Lum practitioner meets opposition, the angle of the strike changes and continues forward. Both styles have a great running hand, and leaking hand, but I have only seen this changing of energy in Jook Lum.
The other striking difference is that the Hakka arts=particularly Jook Lum will 'close off their points", meaning the body structure is maintained at all times and between that and their positioning, the vulnerable tagets aren't exposed.

[TenTigers]

"At high levels Fujian styles and Hakka styles are similar."
I would tend to agree. Seeing that Young Chun Fujien Bai He (wing chun fukien bak hok) is quite probably the "mother art", of Wing Chun, and from what I've seen of Wing Chun from mainland, they are all connected.

[fiercest tiger]

KFF

Soy kuil, means to smash the bridge basically but some people take that meaning literally and throw everything into the soy kuil which if any fast punch such as boxers will just double jab or have there hand return and strike over the commited soy kuil. Now im not saying all do this mainly some beginners, some are bridge hunters and some are head hunters with the soy kuil (hammerfist strike).

My good friend that is a SPM sifu can throw out his Gou Choy (hammer fist) none like what i have seen in SPM i guess its his own way of doing it and called it his Lee Family Gou Choy.

The strike can close or open up the centerline and is a basic tool for limb destruction skills. It is a deadly hand in the right hands of the player, usually peik kuil, or bin choy follow up as a touch and go type rebounding ging strike.

I myself would use my elbow to strike and sink on there bridge as i attack the head with the hand all in one go taking out the bridge and closing off the line.

Hope that helps!!
Garry

[Yum Cha]

If you want to improve your wing chun, remember to fight the man, the body, and not the hands.

[Sui]

without a doubt their centerline,this is where wing chun hides it power and also its weakness without this there is no wing chun just the man;)

yum cha if you want to improve your wing chun just show them you pm hei gung.lol
then you could blow them over hahahahaha

ft sinking bridges.lol only if you fight a begginer.lol shame on you.hahahahahaha

[fiercest tiger]

Sui,

Yes, i know what you mean, i did wing chun for 4 years bro!! ;)

No one sinks and stands there dummy..... :p I think we have had a discussion on this years ago on another thread wing chun vs bak mei or something if i remember???

:D

[CFT]

i have only studied Wc an JL for a short time, but it seems JK mantis relies more on sensitivity and change as oppoesed to WC. WC does rely on sensitivity, but JL works much more on "borrowing energy" and changing angles of the body on an instant, more than WC. IN JK we strike the opponents "shadow" not where the opponents is at the time.There's nothing in JL mantis that you've written about that is not also done in Wing Chun. It might be done slightly differently, maybe different supporting mechanics.

A common WCK kuen kuit in Cantonese: "Mo ying da ying" - If no shape hit the shadow.

[kung fu fighter]

Hi Siu Lum,


JL works much more on "borrowing energy" and changing angles of the body on an instant, more than WC.

How does JL borrow energy by changing body angles, from what i have seen of it, JL practioners seem to fight very square on, are you talking about changing angles through stepping/footwork? if so then wing chun also does this at the advance level.



IN JK we strike the opponents "shadow" not where the opponents is at the time.

Can you explain exactly what this means in JL as well as how this concept is applied in fighting?

[Lam Tong Long]

Hi KFF,


How does JL borrow energy by changing body angles, from what i have seen of it, JL practioners seem to fight very square on, are you talking about changing angles through stepping/footwork? if so then wing chun also does this at the advance level.

If you look at the video clip above (the one you posted of Jook Lum SPM) you will see how the angle of the body changes in my own branch. I'm not saying that is the same for all Jook Lum SPM but that is how Lee Yin Sing's people do it. The shoulders switch right through the centre and back out again.

Then again a Chow Gar student I trained with recently (student of GM Yip Chee Kung) almost never switched the shoulders or body angle and it was very 'square on'.

So I don't think that this changing body angle applies uniformly across SPM, let alone Hakka arts.

my 2p,

Jay