sparring and fighting

[punchdrunk]

i've noticed that some people make no distinction between fights, self defense, sparring and challenge matches.
I figure this forum should know the difference the best, so i encourage anyone to give their opinion.
mine is that selfdefense is when u are given no choice and face serious harm at the hands of others, morally u have no limitations to defend yourself.
Sparring is a training tool with rules that vary from club to club. It can simulate specific aspects of fighting and train atrributes.
a fight is when u disagree with someone and also disrespect them to the point where u would do them harm, and vice versa.
A challenge match is where people pretend to represent others and spar, without realising its just a training tool.
Im sure there are varying opinions on this and would love to read them.

[Cyborg]

I have a different take on the self defense/fighting definition. I have never fought (in self defense or otherwise) not because I didn't feel like it, but because it wasn't worth it. I don't care what they say about my mother! I only care about my friends opinions. And I wouldn't hurt my friends. If I get attacked by a mugger I'll do my best to put him down and out. If a drunk guy swings at me I'll parry/duck and trip him and then walk off. Both are fights IMO but with totally different intent on my part. But I feel a definite limitation when fighting the drunk.

I spar alot.

I keep hoping some one will challenge me to a match for the honor of their style. :) Anybody...? anybody at all?

As to Ralek and his fellow trolls, ignore them. They only act the way they do because they get responses. Like you said, the kids not old enough to buy beer.:rolleyes:

[punchdrunk]

Thanx for the honest reply, I appreciate the truth. Are u serious about a challenge match though? If you are what kind of rules would you accept or want? And if you won or lost would you hold a grudge? I assume if you lost it would change how you train. But what would the end result you were looking for be?
thanx again.

[Jeff Liboiron]

I've benn training in wing chun for 5 months, i've never sparred, but i have been in one fight including multiple opponents (4 of them).

I dropped 2 of them, and the other two didn't do anything once they saw what happened to their friends.

In no way does sparring help you with multiple opponents who want to take your head off for no reason. And i believe that's one of the many differences between sparring and real life.

[Jeff Liboiron]

hey punchdrunk, get a profile

[Cyborg]

Like I said, I've never been in a fight and (on one hand) don't want to. (On the other) I do want to fight to test myself. So to test myself seriously and as realistically as safely possible (if there is such a thing) I spar as many as will do that with me.

My rules are pretty basic, no eye gouges, fish hooking, no groin shots. And of course we don't do anything like breaking bones, if I can't make them tap then I let it go. We usually wear some sort of gloves (fingerless preferably) and sometimes shin pads.

"If you lost would you hold a grudge?"

No. I've lost before and they're some of my best friends. I can't foresee it changing how I train, just how much I train. I'm lazy and out of shape right now. If this sounds arrogant I apologize but I've never been beaten by any of the dojo's that I visited to train at. I take that back, I beat one guy several times before getting tired and then he got me once.

The end result I'm looking for? It shows me new ways of looking at things and motivates me to train harder. I don't even like the thought of losing.

Jeff, how can you say training won't help with multiple opponents? Perhaps your training is lacking in that area but surely not everyones is. I've trained for that in JJ but can't say that it helped 'cause I've never fought multiples! :) Remember, almost any plan is better than no plan at all.

[Dark Knight]

I spar all the time, it varys from point to heavy contact to sparring with grappling and submissions.

Street fights have been eaier, most people dont want to plat after getting hit hard on the first stwo or three strikes. But most people you fight in the street are untrained.

When I show up at other schools the instructors usually dont want to take a chance of looking bad in front of their students and dont fight with me, so I spar with the students.

As far as challenges, I have had many people say to me they think they can do well, but when you call them to the carpet they usually dont follow through.
Its goes like this
Them "I think I would do well against you, Im bigger and in great shape, all I have to do is keep you at kicking range/ or grappling range"
Me: "You need to find out, lets get together"
then a long pause because they didnt expect that answer asnd some mumbling before walking away.

And those who do I get my gear, (I have two sets of gloves and other equipment) and we fight. Depending on the person I will hit them a lot to let them know I can or take them down and put them into painfull submissions, but I chain them to let them know that I can.

I know many people better than me, in the organizations I'm in, Im with a lot of them, and its great to fight with them.

Normally the person who challenges you does not really want to, or prob does not have a lot of skill. Those who do have skill have better things to do than challenge you.

[Mantis9]

I see self-defense as a means to escape to safety by the best possible means; not a throw down match between yourself and your attacker(s). If your a woman, your more likely to be attacked from behind and wrestled to the ground by one attacker. If your a man your likely to be attacked by multiple attackers whom carry weapons (gun, knife,etc). Either situation, whether real or imagined I would not wish to stay in long enough to find out if the attacker had a weapon, friends, or was a world class martial artist. Yes, hitting and grabbing might be part of the action, but running away would be better.

Sparring is to train tools.

Fighting is to stop violence.

And Challenge matchs are to settle questions.

[Water Dragon]

Mantis9 is correct.

[Jeff Liboiron]

Originally posted by Cyborg

Jeff, how can you say training won't help with multiple opponents? Perhaps your training is lacking in that area but surely not everyones is. I've trained for that in JJ but can't say that it helped 'cause I've never fought multiples! :) Remember, almost any plan is better than no plan at all.

I never said training won't help you with multiple opponents, cause if i never started training in wing chun I would've got my ass kicked that day.

I'm just not sure that sparring one guy will help you with fighting four guys who want to hurt you really bad. But then again i've never sparred, just seen sparring matches. :)

Oh, and your lucky, you never wanna fight multiples :)

[nospam]

i've noticed that some people make no distinction between fights, self defense, sparring and challenge matches.

Fights/self-defense/challenge matches- no difference. Beat the person down in the shortest period of time.

Sparring- training tool.


nospam.
:cool:

[Tigerdragon]

Self defense/fight are exactly the same thing, just depends on what direction you are looking at it from.

Challenge match isn't far removed from self defense/fight. only difference is you may or may not have some rules/padding

Sparring is a training tool plain and simple.

I for one try to avoid any situation that would require me to defend myself. I also never make or accept challenges. I have no reason to, I have nothing to prove. Sparring is another story. Right now, because of where I train I can't spar, so I know my timming and reflexes are going to crap. But I have always been willing to take on friendly sparring matches with anyone. It is a great way to understand how people move, and all the things you can expect from someone.

[Dark Knight]

Tiger, why cant you spar?

[Tigerdragon]

We workout in a powerhouse gym. Because of the insurance coverage they have, we can't spar there. We are trying to work something out to give us the chance to spar somewhere else.

[Sensei Kunz]

I have been in the martial arts for 33 years. I competed in tournaments all over the West Coast. I even participated in the Long Beach International tournaments. These tournaments usually have little contact and alot of control. Believe me, this will hurt you more than help you. I know that everyone has heard of a black belt getting his butt kicked in a real fight situation! This is because when they do find themselves in a street fight, they are conditioned to control their figh and not use to hitting hard.

In my dojo, we only spar full contact. this is with full face gear, 12 oz open hand gloves, cups, chest gear shin pads and boots. sparring includes kicking, hitting, grappling, take-downs and ground fighting. this is the true way to learn how to defend yourself in a real street fight situation. Continuous training and conditioning.

It is best to fight beyond your school to better prepare yourslef. Not all people fight the same or respond the same. Set techniques are very dangerous. You must be prepared for anything!

A school who does not teach full contact is not worth its salt!

[LEGEND]

I agree with SENSEI.