View Full Version : Iron Body similarities in Bak Fu Pai, Pak Mei, Hung Gar, etc.

Teet Lohan
10-15-2000, 03:57 AM
I was just wondering what some of the similarities and differences where in all southern arts related to Fukien. I am not sure if Pak Mei has any iron body kuens but I have heard that Pak Mei was nicknamed cottonbelly. I have no idea if this is true or not. Any info on southern kung fu iron body similarities and differences will be appreciated.

10-15-2000, 02:36 PM
yes cotton belly is real in pak mei pai!


10-17-2000, 02:40 AM
Hilarious. I just viewed the ESPY pak mei video by
man kwong fong today. My mother watched as well and she pointed out something quite facinating generally around the same context.

Anyways, it *would* appear that cotton stomach is a skill hidden within the forms of pak mei. Problem is, I doubt anyone today knows how to really develop the skill, and how it works.

On the subject, Is there anyone BETTER than man kwong fong? I cant say i'm impressed. In fact, i'm quite dissapointed.

"You'll see it when you believe it."

10-17-2000, 02:44 AM
Oh yes, he does do some percussion. I'll have something to share about bodhidharma and the five sounds later.

But it will rattle some cages..

10-17-2000, 05:06 PM
Does Mommy screen all of your video purchases? It's OK, I empathize, I remember what it was like to be 14.

"I'll have something to share about bodhidharma and the five sounds later.
But it will rattle some cages.. "

OK, you do that, but please don't pretend to have any qualms about rattling cages. You clearly do not. That is almost as funny as fierce tiger trashing Sifus on a public forum and then signing off with the word "peace". Hysterical! You guys are too much.


wisdom mind
10-17-2000, 05:14 PM
Master Man Kwong Fong's Pak Mei is weak?

What exactly are your criterion for this statement? I am interested in an intelligent breakdown of your view, from and educated standpoint, reather than something along the lines of "he sucks"....

Have you ever been near this Sifu, or been touched by him? Is it that his form does not match yours? Please provide detail!

You statement could be valid, Im not discounting what you say, per sey, just looking for more detail than "he is weak".

In effect, is it your honest, humble opionion that student of this Sifu are being mislead and ripped off? Exactly why?

If what you say IS true, then all should be able to see what you have to say, as you are a proclaimed Pak Mei practitioner of 16 years...then prospective students can evaluate all sides of the story!

i await an intelligent reply, lets keep it topic oriented and not get personal:)

wisdom mind
10-17-2000, 05:18 PM
from a investigative standpoint I ask you...

what is it that disappointed you about the video/style/Sifu....

also, what is moms capacity to judge a form, just wondering..i wish my momz was into martial arts!


10-17-2000, 11:49 PM
in Yau Kung Mun, we have iron body training. in our 3rd form Yin Ching Kuen it is a dynamic tension form where it works the arms, back,shoulders,ribs, lats etc. we don't do formal iron body training, but my sifu has told us how to go about training in iron body if we wanted to. he used to train in it but we haven't practiced much. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

10-17-2000, 11:52 PM
burn the wicked
i mean no disrespect to your sifu, but at his age and his experience clc last disciple he should be alot better than that. he seemed to me, a little stiff and wasnt grounded on many of the moves.

at 70 my sifu moved fast and power that you have never seen. how old is man kwong fong. in southern china i studied with many masters of this system and a 76 year old gave me a run for my money. he grabed me with a tiger claw on my arm and face and my left side of my body seized up and went numb.
im saying that man kwong fong claims to be the only one of clc, let me ask you "how old was clc when mkf learn with him.

there is another guy he is demonstrating on a wing lam tape sup jee kuen form. he is better than mkf.

as i said this is my humble appinion. as long as you are happy with your training than thats all that matters.

peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

10-18-2000, 09:05 AM
cotton guts is real! there are moves in the bak mei forms that develop and condition the gut. and yes is similar to taiji aka peng.


10-18-2000, 04:25 PM
fierce tiger,
If that is your opinion of MKF then so be it. You mention that he appeared stiff and wasn't grounded, would it be fair to say then that the Bak Mei you learned was more fluid and rooted? I would be interested in learning more about your Bak Mei and any differences or similarities you have discovered with other systems, be they BFP or the Bak Mei descended from CLC.

So, how do you like San Diego? I lived there previously and loved it.


10-18-2000, 04:25 PM
I was planning on checking out the Bai Mei School headed by MKF but haven't had the chance yet. I'm NYC based and was wondering if you might know of any other Bai Mei school in the city worth checking out. Also, if you can tell me where you conduct your classes at, so maybe one day if I get the chance I can go and check out a class.(If possible) Feel free to contact me privately via e-mail at mystic_11206@yahoo.com

Thank you for your help.

wisdom mind
10-18-2000, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the input, I appreciate your analysis. Being in the Eastern US I have no other way to compare my Pak Mei to any other, so I cannot really comment on the strength issue.

From you experienced perspecitve, is it really possible to judge the power and true skill of a person from watching an instructional video?

Would you say that students of MKF are being bamboozled or ripped off - as he appears to not have Pak Mei power as you see it?...i know you already said if im happy then....i just want a bit of a deeper perspective to your reasoning, if you would be so kind.

i thank you in advance, and await your reply

Let me add to this thread as the above does not really relate to the topic and readers might be getting antsy for topic related content....

it is in the form of a question...

Does Pak Mei have "cotton palm"? is this an iron body tech? what other styles do?

10-18-2000, 07:41 PM
this is my opinion yes, but he is oviuosly a good sifu because his toa dai respects him. maybe i was a bit to hard on the judgement, i do respect him and he teaches what clc taught him so this is very important. he does have power you can see this its clear and he probably put me down on my bum. he seemed to be very ridged on that performance, it may have been a bad day. he was going to fast and it looked like he wasnt finished on some moves.(his legs wasnt keeping up properly).

when practising bak mei you dont have to go this fast. only on sections that flow and some that really ground and smash. i havent seen any bfp but i know that the gm doo wai trained under clc for some time. they have the same names of forms and moves by reading this thread. so no comment on bfp.

buby, how you doing thanks for your post.
i think mkf would be a good teacher if he takes you on as a disciple. i dont know if he teaches the class or he gets his senior students to do it.
i do not teach openly and i have eight students, thats all i want. sorry pal maybe one day, check out similar styles like bak fu pai,southern mantis, dragon and yau kung moon. we are all brother systems, and teach complete systems.

burn the wicked,
im not the only person that has said something about mkf, i just added to what they said. i dont think that the students are ripped off in anyway what so ever. but if you had trained with me in southern china and saw what i saw. you would have the same opinion as myself. tell me how many senior students have learnt the last form of your pak mei, also what is your last form. does your sifu hold back if your a gwa low or treats you like a chinese person. does he keep the last forms only for his sons or daughters. how many have done bi shi.

cotton belly or cotton palm? which one. mew hing has cotton palm out on the white tiger site.

hope this helps you out.


wisdom mind
10-18-2000, 08:21 PM
BUBY-as i said b4 on email, look around, but at the same time judge for yourself first hand

Fierce Tiger:

if you had trained with me in southern china and saw what i saw.

i would like to travel one day, you are lucky

tell me how many senior students have learnt the last form of your pak mei

i wish i could, at the time i dont even know how many seniors there are, as people come and go, they probably learn outside of class.....i dont know what the highest form is, never asked...

does your sifu hold back if your a gwa low or treats you like a chinese person.

gwa low? is that ghost face or roundeye?

i obviously cant speak for him but he appears to judge by a persons character and consistency

MKF has said that he will teach all, without discrimination, all he asks is that you train hard and stay training for the long ride of kung fu development-no cheese hocus pocus or fluff, just reality

He teaches each class personally
(which is rare in these parts)

bi shi...is there an english translation?

I see many forms, never asked what they were, as im setting proper foundation and am comfortable there.

I like to see others thoughts on topics, as long as its topic related and not personal...the info you provided makes me think about my training from different angles which is good, not to get stuck in ruts....

any more thoughts?

10-18-2000, 10:04 PM
Burn the Wikked - How's everything god? I thank you for taking time to remind me of the advise you gave me and without a dought I take it to heart. That's the reason for me asking if there where any other BM schools in NY. I just want to know what options I have, if any. The next school/system I study I plan on sticking with it for yrs. to come. I just want to make sure that I sign up to the school/system that is perfect for me.
-Thanks Again Bud

Fierce Tiger - I'm fine, Thanks. Hope all is well with you! Yea, maybe one day I'll get the chance to meet and train with you and some of the others on this board.

Being that you trained in China, would you mind sharing some info(training tech./experiences/fights) that you saw/experienced while in China?

What would you say are some of the biggest differences between the way Kung fu is taught in the States and the way it's taught in China?
(ex. iron body/fist/palm are these stressed more than or the same as the States)

I apologize to everyone on this thread if I'm jumping off the topic. FT- Please feel free to contact me via e-mail if you feel that this will throw the topic off it's course.

Thanks Again Guys!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

wisdom mind
10-18-2000, 10:34 PM
no problem...

the quest that you are on Buby is a shared one many MArtists experience...all i ask is that you be true to self and enjoy what you do, whatever that is, unless it is Babylon related:)

fire pon dem
burn one

10-19-2000, 06:27 AM
hi buby,
there are so many differnces in training in china to the west.
1) intent will doing the form, like your killing someone.(correct mindset)
2) basics
3) form an san sau drills
just to name a few

burn the wicked-take apart each move, see if it works inside or outside centerline. then see if the next few moves follow up right. if it doesnt then your form will not help you on the street.
thats a tip when practising forms. you must break it down. what range is each single move, look for weak points in it also.


10-19-2000, 02:26 PM
Fierce Tiger,
I agree with your points 1,2,3. Without the right mindset there is no Kung Fu. The same goes for the basics. The most important aspects are already learned in the straight step punch form. More and more I'm beginning to see the beauty of it. Without doing this form properly, there is no use in learning the nine step push form. There must be a lot of power without keeping the muscles too tensed.

As for the video tape, I think it is good to see how other schools do the forms. It's interesting to analyse the differences. For example we do that form slower, I was impressed by the speed on the tape. Another difference is that we don't stomp the feet with every move, we step. But personally I think that there always will be differences. Even if I look at my training brothers I can see differences, while we all learned it from the same Sifu. So I'm not bothered too much by that.

Regards, La

10-20-2000, 12:29 AM
lau- thanks for your post

your definitly right, ever person has different body shapes, sizes, weight etc. even my students cannot be like me, also i can never do it like my sifu. but if your teacher teaches you to do a move and you add a stomp to it, you add to the form. if the technique hasnt got stomp dont stomp. differences in the way we move but not differnt moves - stomp step and slide step are two differnt things altogether.

without correct mindset your kung fu is useless, you might as well do ballet. What are the core forms in your system?

does your school have a web-site that i could see?