writers: monks and kung fu and spears, oh my!

[KC Elbows]

Hey all. Working on a story, and I thought I'd hit you guys up for some info. There's a few questions, so take whichever one you feel you can answer, or all of them if you're in the mood.

One of the main characters is a young man(16-17) who studies under a monk, ancient times in technological levels, so its a fighting monk and the fighting is a life and death matter.

The questions:

-If you were a monk, and you wanted to teach a young person the way(whatever way yours is), what would you teach them of a spiritual nature?

-Those of you who have met monks: What sticks out to you about their demeanour? In general? What is notable about a specific monk you've met? Ever met a really bad monk?

-What traits might turn you away from teaching a particular person?

-What sorts of meditation might you give them to work on?

-If you had a relatively short time to begin their way, what would you teach martially and spiritually to give them something to work on until next you meet?

-Have any of you written a complete novel before? Any tools/practices you used to help in your work would be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

[shaolinboxer]

I've never met a monk who was actually a monk, and I've met several monks.

[wangsizhong]

the only monks i met were at this hindu retreat center in michigan, but they were middle aged white guys who just seemed to be hiding from their wives who they considered "burdens to enlightenment"

on the other hand, i was in thailand and came across this place that has an arcade only it uses play stations instead of arcade machines. aside from myself, the room was inhabited mainly by like 20 young monks in full regalia playing EA's FIFA soccer game. wish i took a picture....

i guess seeing as you're looking for a more ancient setting, this wouldn't be appropriate for your young monk, but you could use the idea that not all monks are serious all the time.

Wang Si Zhong

[diego]

If you were a monk, and you wanted to teach a young person the way(whatever way yours is), what would you teach them of a spiritual nature?

my major petpeeve from having lameass stepfathers,and fighting them is,the classic caraciture of jabba the hut,buddy fronts like he's big,but hes really a child,cuz he hits women if he gets ****ed,wheras what if that was your mother....those are things that inspires righteuos wrath within me

so what would i if i was the ****-tobe a protector of those who are to little--you see where im coming from on this,ifso i just gave you ideas for three chapters.


-What traits might turn you away from teaching a particular person?
agian my major pet peeve- they be like oh he was such a good husband-yah when every1 was happy and his belly was full,when he went broke he flipped out and slammed your head to the floor

what traits,i wouldtest his mask under pressure to see where his hearts at

gotta go
will be back

[Mutant]

Hey KC,
I've met a couple of highly trained kung fu monks (one a buddist and one a taoist), and what struck me was that they exude an air of calmness, control and focus. They both moved with grace, purpose and elegance. I doubted they would teach anyone anything besides harmless chi gung exercises, meditations and basic forms, unless they were truely dedicated disciples or had a real urgent reason to.
The taoist monk was crass and mischievious, while still possessing the above attributes.
Their skin was tight and lusterous beyond their age, they breathed deep and slow and seemed to have an overabundance of chi energy. They were very strong and atheletic, but not outwardly so, not like jocks, but more graceful and supple.
Just some basic observations, maybe my imagination made them seem more magic than they really were, but they were very impressive.
The taoist monk, Kwan Saihung, has a book written about him called 'Chronicles of Tao'...although i've heard its heavy on fiction and exageration, i would recommend reading it for reference and enjoyment (it fun with cool history and fighting) if you havent already, unless you think it could interfere with your own writing ideas.
Good luck with the book that sounds great! :)

[KC Elbows]

I'll try to find that book. I like the crass taoist concept. I'll have to think about that.

There's a lot more to the story, but this is the part that pertains to kung fu and monks.

Diego,
Good recommendation on putting the mask under pressure. I like that. It sucks that you had stepfathers like that. I've got a step son, and I've learned HUGE amounts of wisdom from realizing that he has to grow to be the person he should be, and only by making myself a better person will he gain anything worthwhile from my presence. Is this what you mean?

wangsizhong,
actually, the video game thing is timeless in a way, even if the game would be different in the past.

Here's some of the monk stuff you guys have given me so far:
-calm
-playful
-possibly crass
-maybe not even a true monk
-possibly just escaping
-looking for the true nature of the individual, not the interface(to paraphrase Diego)
-Not teaching dangerous things except to the dedicated or the needy.
-sometimes, seen in a light that is idealized

[prana]

some vows taken by monks.

Never cause verbal conflicts by their speech (such as myself here)
Never fight unless to defend oneself and/or other sentient beings
Compassion to all living beings must be upheld, no matter what.
Their greatest enemies are their greatest teachers.
Never teach unless the student really wishes to know.
Instructions are always vague, relying on the dedication of the student to discover its true magics.
Even if they scream, it is with the heart of compassion.
Stay out of laymens problems such as relationship problems etc..


And in chinese movies, whenever something unfortunate comes up, they always chant "Amitofo", calling the Dewachen of Amitabha.

I can think of heaps more but what is it you want to know ?

[diego]

looking for the true nature of the individual:no doubt
see i ran with a mixed crew as a shortie,and we tagged along with the older groups,when wilding out,now when i look at everyone i knew, it was the united nations..not even skintraits,but you had the cool guys, the tagalongs, etc...me i have always been a watcher,i can relate to anyone in the caste system,wheras not many can have a respectable conversation with a pimp or a pastor

now in my opinion unless you have been schooled in somekind of institution
of family structure wich houses the characteristics of humanity and all it holds for better and worse,it would be dang near impossible to be a complete human bieng""meaning you know history and the ways of man are understood/imbedded" unless you mathematically do your studies on the legends of man""bibles etc" and meditate on the WITHIN principles..

man i just go off and start typing,its crazy uno how you will ponder deep thoughts for a couple of weeks then someone will ask a question surrounding those thoughts and you just start brain ****ting well it just happened.


so:looking for the true nature of the individual//lets say your this old taoist dude who grew up in a hippyish village,saw it burn and held as a pow,in the camp he makes friends with some triads,cuz they knew his cousin so they teach him the ropes of the trade,he goes thru bieng crimey,and catches a flashback of his happy childhood and the friendly sayings of grandpa...joins the army became a general,sparked a family raised his seeds...then he meets his sister a taoist nun who he assumed perished when the village burnt....so he goes thru solitude-analyzation&digestation

saves a slave-orphan and raises him in the skills of tao by imprinting the completeness of his life as a man during the youths progression in taoist gungfu skills"combat with a human,relating to a human"diplomacy"----how to protect oneself and bring respect upon oneself by all memebers of the global family,hard task if your not that hardcore individual who lived it!!!.
MAN I FEEL LIKE IM WRITING THE BOOK,that should suffice for now my ideas on; A INDIVIDUAL TRUE WITH NATURE""ANIMAL-SOLAR& TREES....


SEND ME A COPY EH.:cool:

[KC Elbows]

Thanks all.

Prana,

Very cool stuff. Please, feel free to give me more, that stuff just cannot bore me, and some of it is from angles I never thought of(the teaching one especially-its probably gonna take me years to internalize that). You seem to be very knowledgeable on these things. If I have any specific questions related to the story(or just for my own self-realization, as the book is part for that as well), do you mind if I pick your brain on those as well?
[ BTW, your first oath, Never cause verbal conflicts by their speech, is something I'm going to work on doing, in light of all the conflict that's going on around here lately, thank you]
As far as specific questions, I'm not getting too specific, as I am looking for what I don't think of when I think of the way and monks, in order to create characters that are not limited by my lone viewpoint.


Diego,

I begin to see what you're saying. Bear with me: it takes me some time to put together what you're writing, but the ideas themselves seem coherent enough, its just finding them in the words, and I seem to be getting better at that. I agree(if I understand correctly) that, if one isn't raised/trained in an environment of honest humanity, then it requires a huge effort to achieve self actualization. Good thought.
As for the plot ideas, I have the plot largely pulled together, what I'm trying to do is get a myriad of little details to make my world seem real. Also, the boy will not be able to train endlessly with the monk, and so the lessons, in the monk's mind, must be deep, so that the boy can ponder them in the absence of the monk, and at least begin to perceive the way.

Shaolinboxer,
What were the false monks like?

Peace

[prana]

hmm I have limited use of my brain (or what is left of it) :D , but if there is anything I can help with, feel free.

But I can't think of anything specific that I could say to add, hmm but if you address with more specific stuff about your story, then I can help.


Also, the boy will not be able to train endlessly with the monk, and so the lessons, in the monk's mind, must be deep, so that the boy can ponder them in the absence of the monk, and at least begin to perceive the way.

Like "who is fighting with who ?"

[KC Elbows]

"who is fighting with who"

Tricky question. The boy is about to go out into the world, and great danger accompanies him, but ultimately, though many think they are at odds with him as he becomes a man, he contests none of them, and they are all left fighting only themselves.

The story is of a spiritual journey, and though there is plenty of action within it, the end goal is not to defeat a foe, but for the boy to become what is true to his nature. He is impetuous, and resentful(of responsibilities placed upon him, though he places many of those responsibilities upon himself, as he is from a farming culture, his father has died, his mother has not really recovered well from the loss of her husband, and so the boy has had to hold things together). However, he is also able to focus in the now very well at times, and he has the capability for selflessness, when he is not being childish. After his initial training with the monk, he will go through a lot, and that cycle will end in tragedy, so he will have had to learn something from the monk about dealing with tragedy.

Eventually he will train with a second monk from the same sect, but it will be after he has suffered tragedy, and experienced more of the world.

Do monks mourn? Differently than others?

How do monks view killing for food where it is a necessity?

[Royal Dragon]

Kc said (well repeated anyway),

"[ BTW, your first oath, Never cause verbal conflicts by their speech, is something I'm going to work on doing, in light of all the conflict that's going on around here lately, thank you] "

I think that's a good plan, and I am going to do the same.

Royal Dragon

[KC Elbows]

Its the Chicago in our blood that makes us so reasonable.:D

[WARNING: THE ABOVE HYPOTHESIS DOES NOT HOLD UP WELL UNDER TRAFFIC SITUATIONS, WITHIN THREE SQUARE MILES OF A TOLL BOOTH, IN LINE AT THE DMV, AND IS UNDER SEVERE DURRESS IN ANY SITUATION INVOLVING CONTRACTORS]

[diego]

his actual fight sequences is he average after he trains with the monk,like his brothers are better or is he going to be a wong fie hung individual...im thinking a good way to make it dragonballz funread without the whole ****s flames on his fallen opponents,would be he learns super hardcore training,but its a time of war so its not just to develop a complete warrior,but to complete him as a warrior SAY fast,incase he gets caught up in war,so he has these skills but hes not a sage more like jackie chan then bruce lee movie heros....him bieng not a sage,but of sage caliber,through his adventure,of kicking ass,moments of reflection would arise,wich leads to the end of your plot.
some thought,uno.

[prana]

Monks of course do have feelings, but not limited to the earthly matters. For example sake, if one is to pass away, a very realised monk is able to tell what worlds he is going to by, this of course makes them mourn less due to their understanding. As opposed to a layperson who has no control whatsoever as to what may happen to the deceased.

Actually, the "who is fighting who" has many levels, such as
1. If he fights an enemy and loses, he knows he has also won.
2. If he fights an enemy and wins, he knows he has also loss.
3. If he hurts the other, he has hurt himself
4. This person he is fighting, is in fact, his mother in one of the many lifetimes previously
5. This enemy is the manifestation of a deity or Buddha, a golden opportunity to slice through bad sees once and for all.

Monks eat because they need to eat, not because they want to taste a certain something, Theravadin monks do not eat after noon, Chinese monks never ever touch meat. This is very important as monks receiving (begging) food from others also means that they are giving a chance for their providers to practise selflessness, dana, and hence replenish their own karma. The giving of food itself is a practise of humility, generosity and detachment from workly object.

This also necessary means that food, even if it is meat, should not be thrown away. A monk may eat meat, but strictly knowing that the meat was not slaughtered for their own consumption. It is a very narrow margin for most people to understand.

Karmapa used to tear watching animals slaughtered. Of course, in a monks mind, a sentient being who has not undergone mindful training, will immeditately react to such pain and be reborned in the crushing hells. This is very sad, but also because the being who is doing the slaughtering is undergoing a lot of very heavy karma and that is also very sad. As you can see, there are no enemies or bad persons in this situation, just sentient beings causing themselves to be reborned again and again in samsara. For a monk, this is very sad indeed.

A realised being is able, through their own selflessness to then take on the karmic forces of these animals and in their own meditation, release them into Nirvana, provided it is not too late.

There is sooo much and yet so difficult to explain, a fine line.

I hope that answers your questions, please feel free to ask more.

EDIT: I guess it makes good sense to find out what monastic training this monk has and has been ordained to. Makes it easier to answer your questions :)

[wangsizhong]

in most of the movies and books, monks are not looked upon kindly by the general public. anything from nuisance to hostility.
like second-class citizens who might be okay to perform funerals, but should stay out of the way and not try to lure family members to be monks.

Wang Si Zhong

[KC Elbows]

diego,
Actually, the training has to be fast, as the boy is going to be on his own in the wilderness, and there are individuals pursuing him. I don't think he'll be a wong fei hung: I think it would be better if I made him more humble, and yet he achieves self awareness by the end nonetheless.

Prana,

As far as what type monk, I should state that, though the story is ancient in tech level, it is actually fantasy, so it is not limited to a particular sect, though the stuff I'm leaning towards appears to be primarily buddhist.

[prana]

wangsizhong

Isnt it sad that they only become important once it is too late, when one has to die ? And the monk always does his job with so little to gain except the jobs from hjelping those that always 'pushed' him away.

ahaha I guess karma runs over dogma again.

[KC Elbows]

People should really keep their dogmas on a leash!

A lot of really good stuff, everyone. I appreciate the help.

[prana]

KC , I am very interested in the film Make sure you share it with us when you and your film becomes a big legend.

[KC Elbows]

Book first. Then I'll worry about film.

I've got two people proofing what I'm writing. One is an anthropologist, and the other(her brother) is a martial artist. She loves the cultures I've put together, and he loves the martial stuff. I'm very happy about the progress I've made so far, and with those two egging me on, I've got to be careful not to let my head get all big. When I'm further along(I'm approaching 1/3 done with the first book), a third friend, another writer, will proof the writing and style. That's the proofing that scares me, but I figure I'll do OK.

If I think of any more questions you might be able to help with, I'll bring this thread back up. I'm still letting the info you've collectively given me to percolate in my little brain, then we'll see what comes out. That sounded vaguely disgusting. Perhaps that's what I'll call my autobiography. Brain Coffee.

[prana]

no problemmo :D