View Full Version : why do you bak fu pai guys have so many sub systems?

10-22-2000, 01:51 PM
i would like to know why, you guys have so many sub systems in bfp. it seems that you guys have mew hing systems popping up everywhere, lotus, dragon claws, what next stay tuned!!!!

mew hing was secretive but you have different systems of his stuff, lo man pai, fay fung sun gung, its becoming a joke. it seems that doo wai has trained 20 life times to get this info. how many systems are left to bring out.

is the grandmaster just making new style up to make more money. i here is money hungry, maybe because he is with all the stars.
peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

10-23-2000, 05:56 AM
that knows the "Original, non-CLC Bak Mei" system with 18 hand forms??? The self-named system of the White Eyebrow monk himself???? Hahahaha
No background, no history, nothing but BS...

You have alot of nerve, I'll give you THAT! Hahahaha

What's a Lo Man Pai? Who said Fei Fung Sunn Gung was Miu Hin? Where do you get this stuff?

You pretend to ask the Bak Fu Pai people, but you are smirking like you think you already know it all. You are the same dick that showed up talkin' smack a couple months ago! Now I remember! Hahahaha

10-23-2000, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> mew hing was secretive but you have different systems of his stuff, lo man pai, fay fung sun gung, its becoming a joke. it seems that doo wai has trained 20 life times to get this info. [/quote]

What's all this? I am away for a couple days and then this?

GM Doo Wai has over 60yrs training so you just try and figure him out.

Fung Do Duk's system is intact, whereas Bak Mei's is fragmented. It was not Doo's father that was looking for material for a new system.

Fei Fung Sunn Gung is not Mew Hing, MoQ is right.

Ask Rizzo about his Red Lotus system, no one else has heard of it either.

The 108 method Dragon Palms is not BFP, but reconstituted from Mew Hings manuals that are in Fung Do Duk's legacy.

That site is not GM Doo's site. He recently gave the webmasters the go ahead to make videos of the system they've known for yrs. The 1st form is the name of Lacy's phoney "system" of bootleg videos. I guess he didn't think it would be published.

Of course, you have most of your info from Lacy's site, which seems to suit you. You say GM Doo is money hungry, yet you don't know anything about him or his gung fu. I'm wondering why?

Especially, as MoQ pointed out, you are from a rather "alternative" lineage yourself. I wonder who actually believes that you have been trained "in South China" in the rather questionable "Real Bak Mei System"?

As of yet, you have refused to answer any questions about this rarity, rather smugly I might add.

Naturally, people have stopped asking simply because they don't care, but you seem to ASK questions for the same reason. What is your theme?

[This message was edited by Fubokuen on 10-24-00 at 12:43 AM.]

10-23-2000, 08:22 AM

10-23-2000, 11:17 AM
moq-dont you khow what lo man pai is?? i will stand corrected, the way i put it was mew hing had this info about flying *****/phoenix /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif not fung do duk. my apologies to you both.

fu bo- your saying doo wais father wasnt looking for new info, but clc was so he learnt of him to ceate pak mei. well why did doo wai learn under clc then.

doo wai has 60 years of training and knows over 200 hand forms and differnt weapons, 5 or more different system etc, jack of all trades sounds like to me. i still dont know why he would make all these boot leg videos if the forms arent real, you wouldnt waste your time creating bs forms, its stupid. then students learn these forms that are suppost to be bs, from lacy and your having a go at him. the master should be the blame making this sh!t up in the fist place.

moq-i have got some nerve, i dont like this sh!t anymore than you guys.



10-24-2000, 12:24 AM
Okay, pretending that you want to know. I'm going to really go off, but just this one time. If your questions aren't answered, tough. This is probably all you will ever know about this, so pay attention. I won't bother myself with this again.

CLC and Lum Yew Gwai, Yip Man and some others were friends of Doo Wai's father. After he left home, he sought them out and there was info and friendship exchanged. This was after being raised as the inheritor of the style. When his father passed, he DID suddenly become the grandmaster. This allowed him into many inner circles and exposed to many styles from the GM's themselves.

Alot of the seemingly "peripheral" material is reconstituted from Fung Do Duk's legacy of herbal and martial texts. Of course, the gung fu system and family heritage INCLUDES medical and culinary skills. Doo Wai will have his very first videos out soon, and they are going to be Chinese rural cooking.

Do you know what a "bootleg" is? Doo Wai didn't make any bootlegs. He made tapes for people claiming to be collectors and such, not imagining what WOULD happen and frankly quite ignorant of video and the nature of Americans. Some were for the Navy, some stuff for private investigators, some material goes to people throwing around his friends names, wanting to help the handicapped or homeless and/or gathering info to piece together their own systems, like "White Tiger Kempo" and "18 Taoist Palms" etc. etc.

"200 different handforms" etc. where are you pulling this from? He's probably forgotten more than he knows offhand and he probably doesn't practice much anymore and why should he? He never had the choice really, but MA people are really sucking nowadays. I can see why it wouldn't be very interesting to him to be involved with people who suck off him and then backstab him. One major KF celeb seemingly got to polishing his sword so much that he forgot GM Doo had letters from him thanking for his herbal formulas and started talking smack. Another, hungry for potions, adopted some Doo Family recipes, even though his brand was "shaolin" and then started dribbling BS. Hollywood types at least are full of themselves already! The only thing good in America, apparently, is that it's not your own people trying to kill you!

You see, this system and others like it, is all Doo Wai has ever studied. Yes, he hangs with Hollywood types, has known Jackie, Samo and Michelle for many yrs, has treated the likes of Muhammad Ali and Richard Pryor and extended and bettered thier lives. He gets letters from Her Majesty the Queen and has had lunch with De Niro more than once. He taught Bruce Lee and Joe Lewis. Wesley Snipes comes over to train and he's taught self defense to Goldie Hawn and Bette Midler. He is invited to Premiers on both coasts and he can even be seen on some production credits.

And so who are YOU? What is your beef with this man who has never advertized himself or sought exposure in any way? What do you think you know about him that isn't from Lacy's BS? You must resent him for his low profile.

You have asked for and been given much and apparently digested none of it. You cannot spell, but you aren't stupid, so I suspect you are up to something. I think MoQ is right, you are from San Diego, so you know about Jim Lacy. If you think his gungfu or his posture as a "5-Elder grandmaster" are valid, then your grasp of your own Bak Mei is pretty dang shallow.

Oddly enough, in the 80's, a private investigator requested Bak Mei forms on video for his "collection of rare KF styles". They showed up, Doo Wai ran through some forms(marking them) and they left. This was unauthorized by Bak Mei Pai, so this was the excuse used to disseminate it further and then to Lacy an excuse to make claims around it, like "The Original Bak Mei from the White Eyebrow monk himself" and blame Doo Wai for whatever happened. Of CLC's forms, there are 15. GM Doo took the opportunity to mark the collection with 3 more forms, totalling 18 forms. 18 handforms= unauthorized and illegal Bak Mei material. No wonder you are anti-CLC.

Basically anyone in the San Diego area teaching Bak Mei from the monk and not CLC(who named it "Bak Mei" fool) is a Lacy cohort and teaching out fake Bak Mei as a non-CLC "original, from the monk himself" BS system.

[This message was edited by Fubokuen on 10-24-00 at 05:51 PM.]

10-24-2000, 07:37 AM
fu bo kuen,
i have nothing against doo wai, im happy that even rich people go to see kung fu teachers for help. but why the HELL would yip man, clc, lam yui gwa give him inside information to there style to another sifu of another system, would you give out your systems secrets away, your as STUPID AS MOQ.

all you know about is clc history and then thats the gospel truth, wake up goose. why would doo wai teach pak mei to navy, investigaters if he is not pak mei and put it on video. claiming that his pak me is is not hongkong pak mei. check out your info before writting **** down, your sifu is a liar then if thats the case. how many other people is he going to rip off saying he has pure versions of wing chun,pak mei,dragon.

even better, clc went to doo wais father to better his pak mei you make me laugh, wasnt he the champion fighter etc. how old is doo wai and how old was he when learning under these great masters. clc pak mei is very good i even know that version, but there is more an older version than his...

i have never once talked about my pak mei history, so i dont know where your pulling this sh!t, that i have bak mei monks pure system, i said its older and more pure that clc.

get it right! your right though im a shocking speller.

10-24-2000, 07:51 AM
fierce tiger,

Your knowledge of GM Doo Wai and BFP extends no further than what little you can gleam from Lacy's site. Why then do you come on this forum and make a comple a$$ of yourself by repeating Lacy's ramblings? I think it's funny that you use Lacy to support your position. Furthermore, I think it's REAL funny that you seem to think this doesn't make you look silly.

You have completely failed to prove the authenticity of your "real" Bak Mei, or even to come up with a plausible connection to the White Eyebrow Monk and his system. You fail to answer simple direct queries about yourself and your "real" Bak Mei...and have come up with some truly hysterical excuses to explain this ("gangsters will get me if I do!"). And yet, despite all of this, you still feel comfortable going on to a public forum and expecting your questions to be answered and thinking that you are making others look foolish with your absurd posts.


10-24-2000, 08:41 AM
sorry im not that easy as yip man and ever other teach that gave info to doo wai. go and practise your flying pen!s heavenly healing somewhere else, why get upset because im asking questions about your sifu and his training.
jack of all trades master of flying pen!s thats all i have to say to you.

"gotta go gangsters are coming"
westside /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

10-24-2000, 08:58 PM
Seems people really don't want to look past Lacy, are we afraid maybe what he has(dispite himself being a bit of a git) could be genuine!? I can certainly see how the clc clan would get their snouts out of shape. I've met a few of these clc pak mei fellows who seem to enjoy the notority of the name. I wouldn't be in a hurry to let it widely known about an alternative source with egos like that getting about.
As for what people are up to, Fubokuen you know alittle more than you'd like us to realise yeh!

10-25-2000, 02:51 AM
Whatever Lacy "has", he stole. He is an insult and embarrassment to the "lineage" he claims, so how can that ever be "genuine"? If you think he knows anything about gung fu, you don't.

10-25-2000, 05:48 AM
fierce tiger,

Do you honestly believe that all you are doing is just asking questions? Please don't play innocent now. It would be truly nice if that's all you are doing...you do ask the occassional question, embedded in a rambling text with a bunch of conjecture and insults.
I really do detect a note of professional jealousy in some of your posts, whether this is conscious or subconscious on your part I cannot say but it does seem to be there. Why are you so prone to attack? Wasn't it just a few days ago that you said "we are all brother systems", why the sudden change in tone? If you believe that we are all "brother systems" as you put it, then start acting like it...brother.
For you and all the rest who accuse GM Doo, a man you've never met, of fraud, greed, and God only knows what, try interjecting a bit of logic and reason into your arguments before presenting them here on this forum.
If GM Doo is so "money hungry", then why have I been able to study BFP for nearly four years without giving him a cent? How did I pull that off all of you conspiracy theorists out there? Where are all of these BFP franchise schools funneling money back to the GM? Where is GM Doo's website where he sells Pai material? Money hungry?

10-25-2000, 06:27 AM
I never claimed Lacy knows kung fu only perhaps what he stole was legit, otherwise why would the gm leave hundreds of fake forms on video around waiting for someone to pick up . Unless the forms he was selling to others were all fake, in that case you can't entirely blame Lacy for distrobution of fake pakmei, the gm too would be guilty of this.This would put him in the bad books with other(clc) pakmei schools yeh! Damage control seems the drive here.

10-25-2000, 07:05 AM
i take back that your teacher is money hungry, if he teachers you for free. i have to agree with bui ji with regards to the tapes.

bui ji you somed it up in a nut shell...it's good to see that other people understand where im coming from. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


10-25-2000, 11:53 AM
fubo,billy pilgrim,
i admire your respect for your sifu, but the question still remains, why the fake forms on tapes, the GM would not have known that lacy would tape them and steal the information to sell.

if the GM didn't intend to sell them then why the fake forms including other systems. i have magazines that feature lacy in them performing the chi projection meditations amoung others. why would DOO make up fake meditations to put on tape(not to sell as you put it)but keep the real thing in his mind. i have seen some of these tapes that GM Doo is in and i must say they look real. his tone and his emotion about the systems speaks truth. he has stated that the PAK MEI he has is real amoung other things and he is genuine about them.

why would he say these things on tape and not have them be real.

look at the controversy these things have caused.
the way i see it is that DOO has stated the truth about PAK MEI and now that this is out in the open he including his students are denying the truth to save face and not have an all out inner circle war.

fubokuen :
you state that Doo Wai made tapes for collectors etc. are you saying that these tapes are fake because if they are then he is ripping people off. You don't state that they are fake, so what are they? real!!!!! Why would the master waste so much time and effort as i stated before. does he have that much time on his hands, that he can make up many forms.

one last question for you, why would the pak mei that doo wai has have more techniques in it than the CLC pak mei. if it is fake then i'll use it because it is better. i have studied CLC pak mei, forms that have the same names are more in depth in doo wais version.

the truth is out there!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[This message was edited by bigbear on 10-26-00 at 05:16 AM.]

10-25-2000, 01:56 PM
good post,could'nt have put it better myself.

your form names are the same as clc, mine only have a couple that are the same.

peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

10-26-2000, 07:48 AM
I really do not know very much about these tapes, so I am certainly not qualified to respond, but that hasn't stopped me in the past, so here I go!

I do not know much about Lacy, I talked to him on the phone once many years ago, and thought he was quite nutty, then I heard from many others that the guy was a fake and a fraud and was indeed, quite nutso. Therefore, I dismissed him and his tapes offhand. I heard that he hung around GM Doo for a few years, much like your typical parasite, then he stole some tapes and now sells the material he stole. That's really all I need to know. From my perspective, whatever is in Lacy's possession is stolen property. Lacy is a racist who has no Kung Fu whatsoever, normally I would tell people who doubted this to order one of his tapes so that they could see for themselves, but morally I do not feel it is right to give such council, I don't want anyone to contribute to this man's financial estate. My loyalty is to GM Doo, this is his family system, I know only a tiny, tiny, part of it, and even that not well, but I am appreciative of GM Doo's willingness to share his knowledge with the world. If Lacy does have anything of value in his possession, I can assure all of you that I am not jealous, because I have seen Lacy, and he has not learned any Bak Fu Pai, despite what he might have on his stolen videos. I tell other people not to have anything to do with the man, not because I am trying to mitigate damage, and not because I am afraid that he has more than I, I tell other people not to involve themselves with him because of who he is, and what an allegiance with Lacy says about them. If someone wants to learn Bak Fu Pai, then there are legitimate teachers out there, not many, but they are out there, and I would advise anyone who is interested to seek them out, because if you involve yourself with Lacy, I am sorry, but you are not learning Bak Fu Pai...how can you learn Bak Fu Pai from a man who himself has not learned it??? If anything I have said has been in error I am truly sorry, I am just offering what little I know on the situation, and hoping that others out there can view it from my perspective.

10-26-2000, 08:30 AM
i am totally on your side about this man, but i was only talking about other types of pak mei. lacy is a fraud and i am sure this doesnt reflect on bak fu pai. people can see what lacy is, your right he may have some good sh!t for sale but he is disrespectful all the same.

respect /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

10-26-2000, 07:53 PM
fierce tiger,

Thanks for the post and your perspective. I understand how things look, I was only trying to shed some light on how I view things. Also, I heard that Lacy believes he is the reincarnation of Fung Do Duk, Mew Hing, and Jesus. That's right folks, all three! It must kill this guy to think that he was not white in a past life.

10-27-2000, 02:34 AM
billy pilgrim,
great post! it is good to see that it can be discussed with a certain degree of respect for each other.

i agree that lacy is a fraud and a criminal for what he has done. it goes totally against tradition. if a student in our gwoon ever did that, then he would be an outcast and we would have the same reactions as yourself and fubokuen have. i cannot argue with your logic on the situation. it is all true.

this is not the question however. fubokuen has not replied to it in regards to whether the material that has GM Doo Wai in it is real. we all know lacy is a fraud as stated before. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

10-27-2000, 07:25 AM

I don't know if the material with GM Doo on it is authentic, I've never viewed it. What I was getting at was more the impetus to this line of questioning. I was really getting to the heart of the matter which is why someone would care whether it was authentic or not, unless they planned to put it to use. If someone just wants to see video footage of GM Doo, well, then I guess that footage is as real as any other, however, what people SEEM to be asking is, "is the material presented authentic...in other words, can I learn anything from these tapes?" That is why I encouraged anyone who truly wanted to learn Bak Fu Pai to seek out a qualified instructor, and not send money to this clown. I just don't understand why someone would care whether the material is legit unless they were planning to incorporate it to some extent, and, like I said, if that's the plan, then there are far, far better means to that end.

10-30-2000, 09:04 AM
the forms on lacys site must be real.

no one would make up so many forms for no reason.

10-30-2000, 07:25 PM
stupid friggin' bonehead.

10-31-2000, 01:26 AM
moq- dont make me open up a can of whoop a$$ on ya.
if you have me pinned come over and try your sh!t out. or i can teach you a lesson. hehehehe /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

10-31-2000, 08:53 PM
it won't be little ol' me...
You have never seemed to be anything but a scoundrel, no wonder your friends sang like canaries...

Actually, you are SO disrespectful to your obvious Seniors and betters and seem to be particularly obnoxious and insensitive, the clear payback should be for your students to deeply learn this from you and some day, when you are secure in your MA achievements, have it all splash back on you.