Deltoid involvement in punching

[IronFist]

Alright guys, I think I have a hardcore alignment issue here.

Whenever I punch repeatedly, my anterior deltoids (front shoulder muscle) way over compensates. Now, I have this problem in weightlifting, too, but that's not the issue here. After a few punches, my front delts are already pumped as hell. It's weird, my shoulders are, proportionally speaking, incredibly strong, and I never have to work them out, ever, and they are still big, ripped, and powerful. But, this is a disadvantage sometimes because they want to do more work than they're supposed to.

Does anyone have any tips for me to fix this? When I punch and stuff I make sure that I keep my shoudler back (as in like, not hunch my back). That's right, right? Or is your shoulder supposed to roll forward when you punch? I think this problem is multiplied with my body becaues my shoulders are also very flexible.

But yeah, after just a few punches my delts are pumped, and sore to the point where they slow me down.

Thanks.

Iron

[TjD]

relax your shoulder more, and use the movement of your body or center of gravity to do the work

try holding your fist against the wall (like an almost fully extended punch), and use your stance to issue a forward pressure - then relax your shoulder while keeping up the force


use your shoulder to get your punch into position; afterwards it should feel more like what i described

peace
travis

[Tom Kagan]

Perhaps the solution is to punch more - a lot more.

If you wish to do more research into your situation, I suggest starting to look into the theory of anaerobic strength endurance.

[red5angel]

When I lift weights, I learned I could noi longer do the front part of my shoulder because they hurt too much! Also, when I am punching, chain punching drills or what have you, the same spot wears out faster and I feel the burning! I have been able to curb it some by concentrating on moving at the elbow, which in WC we should be doing anyway! :)

[Chum Kil]

Try keeping your shoulders relaxed and down. Also, your punches should be coming from your elbows and triceps.

[TjD]

punches should come from the ground


peace
travis

[fa_jing]

Ironfist, my front delts always got the tiredest from doing my WC techniques in the air. Went away after about a year. It may not be the only punching muscle, but it's definitely the muscle most engaged when holding your arms out for any period of time.
P.S. I responded to your speed training question on the main forum
-FJ

[whippinghand]

Originally posted by TjD
punches should come from the ground

(The tree-hugging sector of Wing Chun)
Come one... let's be real.

[Sharky]

it's cos you spend the whole class with your arms out in the air in front of you, whether it's chi sau or mid air chain punches.

i used to stand for times holding a dumbell with my arms straight in fron tof me to train these muscles. it helped.

[IronFist]

TjD said:
try holding your fist against the wall (like an almost fully extended punch), and use your stance to issue a forward pressure - then relax your shoulder while keeping up the force


Hey dude that sounded like a cool drill. Um, in theory I would assume that I would be able to support my arm with just friction from the wall and therefore be able to completely relax my delt, but that's not the case :( I tried it today for 5 minutes or so, changing positions and stuff, and I can't get my delt to relax. In this drill, is the muscle supposed to be completely relaxed (ie. like, I can poke on it and it's soft)?

Thanks,

Iron

[dzu]

Ironfist,

Check your posture and make sure that your shoulders are down, your back is not hunched, and your spine is straight. The chest should be opened up slightly, but not excessively to the point that your shoulders are thrown back and your back is arched. Keep your headup and eyes forward. Don't stick your chin out.

When you punch in the air, relax your entire arm. Don't make too tight a fist and don't snap or rush your punches trying to build up speed or power. Speed and power will come in time if you can first learn to relax and find the right groove when extending your fist.

Dzu

[domme]

Hello folks.
I´m new here and want to introduce me first to the forum. My name is Dominique Fecht, 31 years old, I live in Germany and practice wing chun, Yip Man/Lok Yiu lineage for eleven years now. Beside the training, I study sports science and work in a discotheque as security, almost avoiding conflicts by using my mouth (in german, so please excuse some mistakes in english).
I enjoy reading the topics for three months now and I am glad to read discussion, not bubbling over stupid politics.

To the topic I want to add:
It is the normal work for your anterior deltoid to keep your arms in front of you. For wing chun it means, holding your elbows in position and move them forward. Someone said, train more punches, it is right. When I started practicing Sat San Choi the deltoids burned like hell to a certain amount of finding a routined movement with more relaxation. You find the same effect when doing Chi Sao with a beginner, using to much force.
But it is the right muscle to move the elbows into streched position. Add the movement of your legs, hip and body and you will get IMHO a good punch with a lot of impuls energy.

regards

domme

[IronFist]

thanks for the advice guys.

Iron

[sticky fingers]

You've seen your sifu do chain punches right?
Then go look at yourself - do chain punches in front of a full length mirror (vanity aside :)). look at yourself front on and from the side.
Take your shirt off (whoa big boy) - punch with as much muscle as you can, then punch totally relaxed, with hands open. compare the difference, see which muscles you need to use when you punch, and relax the muscles you don't need to use.

do you punch the same way as your sifu, same posture etc?
do your punches flow smoothly as they should or do your shoulders and upper body jerk around stiffly - a sure sign that you are too tense and need to relax.

[TjD]

been moving back into college and well havent had any time ;)


i doubt youll ever get the deltoid to be totally relaxed - the body just doesnt work that way, however you can get it to be more relaxed than totally stiff

its a good training method to get to know the structure of the punch at any rate


and to whippinghand

i guess a better way of putting that would be the punches power comes from the ground (root), with every applicable muscle helping the punch (legs waist torso chest arms) without any deterring it with tenseness

i do hug trees however


peace
travis

[rubthebuddha]

i recommend listening to tom kagan on this one. punch. a lot. when your arms are tired, punch more.

make sure you maintain good form for each of these. speed isn't as important now as getting good form and proper usage of the muscles. so punch some more. and then some. and when your anterior deltoids can't do any more, then they'll be really relaxed and you can punch with your correct muscles. :)

[IronFist]

Thanks guys!

Iron

[Roy D. Anthony]

Try putting your back to the wall keeping your shoulders blades against it and punching. Hope you find it useful! it has helped many of my students.