The Modern Southern Shaolin Temple [Archive]

kboggess

01-24-2002, 11:39 AM

I ran across this thread while browsing and couldn't help but to reply. I've been to the Quanzhou area several times since I have in-law family there. While I've never been to the "temple" nor have I been to the major training halls, I did gain insight into Southern Shaolin culture speaking to several local martial artists.

1. The location of the temple has not been determined. There are three locations currently billing themselves as the "source", Qhuanzhou, Putian, and another spot between Putian and Fuzhou. Quanzhou and Putian each have a rebuilt temple.

2. No official record exists supporting the authenticity of any of the sites. In contrast, the Hebei temple has both written record and archaelogical record supporting the claim that martial arts were practiced there. Little physical evidence exists--not enough to support that the ruins were actually a Shaolin monastary.

3. A profit-oriented industry, both regional and international (Western nations and Southeast Asia), has grown up around Southern Shaolin and the temples. I had on more than one occasion have someone tell me their opinion that the temples never existed, but then said--when they found out I was contemplating an article--not to quote them or use their names for fear of being criticized by those promoting the temple. This regional marketing does affect the information that is presented to the public, especially the overseas ones.

I am not saying that a temple or temples never existed, but I am demonstrating that many things you hear about the Southern Temple does not reveal the true story. For example, there was an article not too long ago in this magazine about the Putian temple. The author took the assumptive viewpoint that the temple was the true one and mentioned nothing about the Shaolin Temple about an hour's drive south in Quanzhou.

In the future I do hope to make my way to both sites to gain further clarification in this area, finding out more of the folk history and the actual curriculum at the training halls.

Keith

GeneChing

01-24-2002, 04:03 PM

Nice post. Write us an article when you go. It'll save me a trip.
;)

joedoe

01-24-2002, 04:07 PM

On my trip to the one in Quanzhou, I also went to the 'old' one in Putian (Putian happened to be my Sigung's home town). The 'new' temple was being rebuilt at the time.

Now I do not know anything about this temple, but the 'old' one looked very old, and there was a kung fu school there. All we did was watch a few demos, do a few of our own, then left.

Interesting part of the world anyway :)

kboggess

01-25-2002, 06:46 AM

Joedoe,

I am curious as to wu shu styles popular in that region (trying to get a cultural handle on things).

Which style does your sigung practice? Did he grow up in Putian and learn his art there?

I have the feeling from my discussion with the martial artists in Xiamen that the temple organizers, bolstered by the local schools, were reconstructing a curriculum by assimilating the local folk arts popular around the region south of the Min River. Some of the names I ran across were White Crane (created in Yongchun about an hour's drive west of Quanzhou), Taizu Quan, Five Ancestor Fist (a newer style but builit around a mixture of five older systems), Dog Boxing, Lion Boxing, a Fujian version of Louhan Quan, Tiger, and a few others that I have to look up. Taizu is really popular in Quanzhou. Five Ancestor Fist was created in Quanzhou as well.

Keith

GLW

01-25-2002, 10:09 AM

Just out of curiosity...

If I go to Greece, go to the Oracle at Delphi location, rebuild it, then go out and find people who can fill the parts of Greek Temple officials (priestesses and priests and such for the Greek Gods and that long dead religion), add some money into the mix....

Can I then say that the rebuilt Oracle is truly an operating temple for Apollo?

Ok...this example is like 2500 years as opposed to 250...but....things that make you go HMMMMMM....

GeneChing

01-25-2002, 10:29 AM

Let's think about the Olympics.

Originally, the Olympics were held in Olympia Valley in Greece, beginning in 776 BCE and competing every fours years for almost 1200 years. Our modern day Olympics were created by Baron Pierre de Coubertin in 1896.

Can we then say that the rebuilt Olympics is truly an Olympics?

Shaolindynasty

01-25-2002, 04:44 PM

GLW- It doesn't make me go hmmm. You need to understand Chan Buddhism. As a religion Chan was never lost(it's not really a religion in the western sense either) It doesn't really matter where the "original" south temple was or if it even exsisted. It does now, if the people on this thread know what they are talking about we have two. Isn't that somthing to be happy about? Shaolin is flourishing, the actual martial art practiced by the monks can be anything traditional contemporary it doesn't matter. The shaolin martial arts are a vehicle for chan. Everything is impermanint so who cares about a building? If the shaolin monks opened a temple out of a musty old basement it would still be a shaolin temple if the teachings of chan buddhism were there.

GLW

01-25-2002, 08:06 PM

When the Olympics were restarted, NO ONE tried to say that it was a continuation of the Olympics from ancient Greece.

What WAS said was that the Greeks had a thng called the Olympics wherein the city states sent their best athletes and for a shining moment in time, all wars suspended, politics stopped (in the ideal) and the city states came together as athletes and lover of physical prowess in competition and comradeship.

Then, the idea was put forth that this for the modern world was a really good thing and lead to understanding. So...let's start it up again....tie it back to the ideals that were held in such highe esteem in Greece, pay respect to the Greeks since they fathered much of what is Western Civilization ...and in honor of their ideals ...call the games the Olympics....

At NO time was there any discussion about tying it all back to something that had been long dead except in concept and spirit.

That is NOT what is hapening with the modern Shaolin temple. Money enters into these things in a big way...and NO ONE ever really messes with anyone else's rice bowl unless they are trying to take it from them....this is the long standing way of Chinese business.

Chan...how has the connection been made. This argument does not at all hold water.

The same folks who are talking about the growth of Chan with the temple are the same ones who later complain about the oppression of the PRC government in regards to religion. The view of religion encompasses ALL relgion...not just Christianity. The government gets involved here ...simply because it is a cash cow. Milk it while you can.

Buy the dream if you wish...but know the difference. First folks try to say that traditional wushu in China is all but dead and that it has been replaced by what they consider to be a watered down thing called Wushu ...then they want to believe that the traditional teachers all of a sudden appear at the temples because they were rebuilt for a movie...and archaeology...or tourism and historical purposes. It can't be both ways. There is a major logical contradiction here.

That is what makes me go HMMMM...

Brad

01-25-2002, 08:35 PM

If the shaolin monks opened a temple out of a musty old basement it would still be a shaolin temple if the teachings of chan buddhism were there

The Shaolin Monks aren't opening the temple are they? It's an athiest government trying to make some $$$. It'll still be a decent wushu school, historical monument, and it probably could turn into a true monastary, I suppose, under the right circumstances.

Royal Dragon

01-25-2002, 10:29 PM

"Taizu is really popular in Quanzhou. Five Ancestor Fist was created in Quanzhou as well"

Reply]
I am currently researching the Tai Tzu/Chao Family Fist systems. I was wondering, do you know enough to help me out? Possibly help me make contact with english speaking Tai Tzu teachers in the area (Well any area really)?

I'm looking to set up a video exchange in the system where I could learn the style one step at a time. Advancement would come as I sent video copy back for evaluation.

A flight to the source would be in the back-ground when time money and the eventual learning of Chinese becaomes a reality.

Thanks,

Gian
aka Royal Dragon

kboggess

01-26-2002, 09:36 PM

Gian,

Unfortunately my main contact for the local Southern arts, Xu Jing Min, passed away last year. My other main teacher in Xiamen focuses on Xing Yi. I won't be going back until a couple of years from now (we just had a son and need to wait. But we will be definitely going back--a great grandmother, four aunts, and four cousins are waiting in Quanzhou to see him!). I hope to forge some new contacts then.

Gian, an interesting note about the linquistic experiences if you learn Mandarin Chinese and make your way there. If you learn Mandarin and hit the streets for shopping or visiting people, you will find that many people in Quanzhou won't understand you. If they do speak Mandarin, you will find it heavily accented. The area dialect is called (in Mandarin) Minnanhua (South of the River Min dialect), or Hokkien. What makes this more challenging is that the dialect differs within the region. The dialect of Xiamen differs somewhat from that Quanzhou.

Also, be careful if you find someone willing to do a correspondence course--they might take you for a ride. I was ripped off more than once--and got in trouble from my wife for being so gullible. It is a bargaining culture. The initial price is inflated automatically since everyone assumes it will be brought down through bartering.

Best of luck.

Keith

kboggess

01-26-2002, 10:11 PM

Shaolindynasty wrote....
Isn't that somthing to be happy about? Shaolin is flourishing, the actual martial art practiced by the monks can be anything traditional contemporary it doesn't matter. The shaolin martial arts are a vehicle for chan.

Agreed. The religious aspect never left. And the activity in Fujian Province is most likely a merger between the ongoing Chan sect and the local martial art groups. The martial arts are only a tool. From my perspective, the value comes in helping to preserve and popularize the regional Fujian arts, which are under-represented in many places such as the US.

I am leary, however, when many use folk traditions and legends to promote their own purpose--religious or otherwise. The danger with the Fujian Shaolin Temple(s) situation is that many a legend is being cast as truth, and that embellished truth is being used as a marketing tool for self or group gain. I am sure that many have honorable intentions. But many see an opportunity for reputation and profit. I would summarize the motivations for Southern Shaolin Temple activities as:

1) religous
2) business
3) regionalism (pride in the local history and traditions)

Were these motivations present during the Northern Temple revitilization? Probably. On the bad side, some shady methods and intentions may have been involved with the Northern Temple. On the good side, I can get VCDs now on the actual Temple forms.

We'll see how the Southern Temple(s) pan out over the next dedade. I hope that the end result is similar to the Northern Temple--the local Fujian arts are made available for study and research to the international community.

Keith

Royal Dragon

01-26-2002, 11:39 PM

Thanks for the info. As of now, I have three contacts for Tai Tzu here in the states, and two overseas. It seems however that none of them (with the exception "maybe" of one) has the entire system. Tai Tzu and it's various counter parts seems spread out, and I am looking for as many sources as I can to peice it together.

In a couple of years, I may be in a better position to do Mainland research in the style. Maybe we could go together? You could be my guide?

Anyway, it's a thought. Travel seems inevitable for my path.

Thanks,

Gian

Shaolindynasty

01-27-2002, 09:25 AM

GLW- I have no interest to turn this into a "not real shaolin" thread but....... The fact that shaolin is a tourist area means nothing, most religious sites are. Also shaolin was burned down and rebuilt many times why is it since this last time it has to be dead? Is it cause of the PRC?

Brad- I don't think the Buddhism is officially indorsed by the government but listening to the monks and their disciples, it seems like they "sneak" the buddhism in there. There are halls and stuff set up also there are monks there that only practice buddhsim and not martial arts. I think the PRC has loosened up on the no religion thing and shaolin probally can get away with alot cause it is such a tourist area.

The people that fight so hard and say this and that is not the "original" don't really understand the original's or otherwises message anyway.

joedoe

01-28-2002, 06:09 PM

I practice 5 Ancestors Fist. BTW, I was always told that Wuzuquan was started in the Northern temple and was adopted by the Southern temple. From what my Sigung told us, the history of Wuzuquan is pretty clouded anyway.

As far as what they practice, I am not really sure to be honest. All I know is that my Sigung was teaching them Wuzuquan and some of the healing arts. The way they practice Wuzuquan definitely has a Taizu flavour to it (whereas the way we learn it it has a more Peh Hok flavour).

Shaolindynasty

01-29-2002, 10:03 AM

"The way they practice Wuzuquan definitely has a Taizu flavour"

By the time you read this Royal Dragon is on a plane to this temple.

The interesting thing is we get to watch and hear first hand acounts about how they are putting together the arts in these temples. This may shed more light on exactly how they did this at the Songshan temple to cause i'm sure they did somthing similar. I would love to go on a tour of the famous martial temples someday. Like one that would go to all the Shaolin temples, Wu Dang, Emei etc. That would be somthing really interesting wouldn't it.(here is where Gene tries to sell me tours by the guy who had an indorsed ad in Kungfu qigong ;) )

Royal Dragon

01-29-2002, 10:08 AM

But first, I have to learn Chinese, several dialects infact.

Now where was this temple again?

RD

joedoe

01-29-2002, 06:00 PM

The temple is in Quanzhou. See http://www.info.gov.hk/mardep/chinport/quanzhou.htm

GeneChing

01-30-2002, 02:29 PM

You know, I hear this all a lot from martial arts people. I'm really not sure what it is about money that freaks out MA people but it bleeds into Shaolin in a bizarre way. Frankly it takes money to restore and maintain temples.
Certainly tourism is a big factor, but that is a factor at any temple. Take for example the Mahbodhi Temple in Bodh Gaya. It was in a complete state of disrepair after the Brits pulled out. Now, thanks to tourist and pilgrim income, it has undergone massive restoration but it is still far below its former glory. It had less lineage claims than Shaolin, but now it has redeemed itself considerably. Can we say the rebuilt Mahbodhi temple is truly the Mahabodhi?
And as for the old PRC wushu killed traditional kungfu bit - you got to talk to the 'folks' who say that to get to the contradiction. It resides within them. Wushu had an undeniable effect, but I've found plenty of traditional stuff still extant. And it wasn't like I had to dig and dig - it's pretty easy to find. If you beleive Shaolin is long dead - that's fine. But can't we restore it too in concept and spirit? And can't we honor those few monks who have survived through things like the CR and repsect their lineage?

GLW

01-30-2002, 03:45 PM

Gene,

to truly REBUILD the temples into what they are supposed to be...TEMPLES first...historical later...

The first step is to recruit MONKS who are from the sects (ie. Chan or Zen) as in a call to international Buddhist organizations with a request to rebuild the temples.

When was this done.... ?

Even if you DO have some older monks who came back to the temple, you need more than this to rebuild and teach new monks...and get new novitiates. This is typically done by bringing monks from other places for temporary or permanent stays to teach and organize.

When was this done... ?

AND>..who did it, where did they come from, what sects did they come from, etc....

How did the Chinese Govt. backing in light of the official edict of NO state support for ANY religion or religious endeavor. The Govt. tolerates religions to an extent but does NOT fund them. Follow the money trail ....

I have known rank and file practicing Buddhists that follow the tenets of the faith more strictly than any of these monks.... Either that is an embarrassment for those monks or they were never really monks in the first place....Either way, they have some ways to go before I would follow them as monks...or promote them....

Been around a while...I remember the days when Bruce Lee was alive...and many would claim that he trained at the Shaolin temple (because they got the movies mixed up with real life) and then there were those (some still around) who claimed that they trained at Shaolin in the 1960's....So excuse me if I am highly dubious on this....The rice bowl is too big...too many people can make money too easily on this...and it is not needed, the training is real, why add the history and religion dream to a reality of training?

Honesty and money...what is wrong with this picture....

Religion and money...even worse.

kboggess

01-31-2002, 07:20 AM

My own opinion about Shoalin temples and money is that the revenue generating methods--especially leaning on the popularity of the classical wu shu--is necessary due to the fact that it is an orginization with overhead. It's a win-win situation between martial art enthusiasts and religious promoters.

For me, the line is crossed with the activity of for-profit martial arts businesses in dealing with the non-profit temple activity. Hypothetical situation: overseas instructors make donations to a temple (Northern or Southern) and they get an inscribed stone or they get lineage authorization.

Case in point: I know of two such instances where the overseas instructor either got an inscription stone set up at the temple or that an instructor got a lineage without much instruction. I do not know if there was any large donations behind them--and I hope there wasn't--but the fact that both parties are now using those actions as part of their marketing for their for-profit business makes me wonder.

I don't know the business practices of the temple organizations, so I hope I'm being paranoid and over-reacting. If anybody knows first hand, I'm interested in learning more.

Gene, I know you've been to the Shaolin Temple (and I have thoroughly enjoyed your informative articles). Do you see any of this kind of activity?

Keith

Shaolindynasty

01-31-2002, 11:02 AM

I agree it's a win win situation. The monks teach wushu(traditional or otherwise) to raise money for and introduce people to chan buddhism. Shaolin was always a politically conected temple so I personally barely get peoples disgust with the connections to PRC. I know as americans we are brought up to think of communists to be our enemies but they aren't always. Other than this though I don't get it. Other churches and temples are tourist attractions, other churches and temples need money. Christian churches pass the collection plate, anything wrong with that? I don't think so. Traditional Buddhist monks used to beg for alms, now instead of begging they offer a service that martial artists want, training. I think it is pretty ironic that secualr people are the first to jump on the monks about what they should and shouldn't do, most of these people don't even have more than a very surface knowledge of buddhism and even less about the chan sect in particular. I also find it ironic that people complain about paying monks for instruction but have no problem going to pay for classes at the local McKwoon. Very strange :confused:

Royal Dragon

01-31-2002, 11:58 AM

I think you are corerect my friend. If you think about it, this is EXACTLY what the Catholic church does. They teach and run grade schools for money to help support the church. In returne, they have an easy platform to aid in the spreading of thier religion.

The Shaolin are doing the same thing, only the subject matter is different.

RD

GeneChing

01-31-2002, 02:07 PM

glw: In a perfect world, your steps to rebuilding make sense. But in modern China, things seldom happen so. Steps such as these suggest a mastermind. Shaolin's rebirth was based on what opportunities were presented.
Now certainly, the economic growth to an impoverished area resulting from a blockbuster movie is a real weird way to start, but then so is staring a a rock wall for nine years. Things didn't go as planned because there was no plan. When your hungry, the only plan is to get food, nothing more. And when the food came pouring in, many individuals got gluttonous. Mistakes were made. They probably still are being made. Lord, find me the realm of no error.
But as for your steps, Buddhist organizations have been called into Shaolin recently. Few martial artists look at the Buddhism - they usually get stuck out in one of the wushuguans - so this isn't normally something that is reported to our community. Both Fu Sheng Hui of China's Buddhist college, and Bin Huan, one of the most respected Buddhist masters in China today, have been heavily involved with rebuilding the Shaolin Sangha. As for step two, outside monks have been brought in all along. Many noted Shoalin monks were initially trained at different temples, most notably the abbot, Shi Yongxin, and our own American import, Shi Guolin.
What jams the whole process is the warrior monks. These tend to be the monks we follow since we are martial artists. By strict technicality, they are not monks since they do not take all the vows - they are martial disciples. But Shaolin has a special clause that allows them to keep these warrior monks and take the monk title. The warrior monks are fighters, plain and simple, and some only stay until they feel they've learned enough, then go on to be pro martial artists. There are about 50+ warrior monks. There are almost 200 fully indoctrinated monks. I've written little about the indoctrinated monks. Most of the monks I've written about are warrior monks. I have not seen anyone address the indoctrinated monks at all, other than me. Maybe I should write more on this aspect, but frankly I'm not sure it would really appeal to our readers. They aren't that interesting unless you're Buddhist.

kboggess: The concept of non-profit only really exists in Western tax laws. To my knowledge, anyone who contributes to the temple (and continues to contribute - the stones can be removed) might get a stone and nothing on those stones claims lineage. What a stone setter might say later is beyond Shaolin's control. It is a large sum and it is used for publicity on both ends. The contributor wants to gain merit for contributing. The recipient wants to acknowledge them because it needs such contributions to stay alive.
While I might echo your concern about stone setters making claims, I do respect their contribution. I tried to set a stone myself but could not afford it. Anyone who donates that much cash to a temple deserves some recognition.

GLW

01-31-2002, 02:48 PM

Ah...Gene..therein lies the problem

If you are a nun or a monk in a Catholic or Episcopalian church, you are either a novice or not. A novice is one who has NOT taken their final vows.

Now, if you are a novice and you leave the monastery or convent, you are NO LONGER A NUN, MONK, PRIEST, etc....

If you have taken your vows and leave, there is a process that you must follow and at then end of this process, you are NO LONGER A NUN, MONK, PRIEST, etc...

If you leave the convent or monastery as a missionary or on assignment, you are fully expected to follow the rules of your order - and this applies to novices as well as fully vowed members. In fact, the rule of thumb is that no novice is ever sent out into the world on such an assignment without a supervising experienced mentor nun, monk, etc.... to prevent the novice from slipping in their vows.

This is what is required to be a nun or monk and it tends to apply to Buddhist monks as well...for all orders except the fabled Shaolin...

So, if the warrior monks are novices they are Novice monks....and should be called such. If they have taken their vows and leave the temple, they are either to be held to their vows or they are not monks.

If they have left the temple to go on to other things, they are NOT monks...they are ex-novice monks...the key being EX.

If they took their vows and leave - not on missionary work - and do not follow their vows, then they should either be removed by the order or they should leave the order...in either case, they would no longer be monks.

Now, if the aim is to REALLY have a temple with true monks, everyone needs to quit making excuses for non-monklike behaviour on the part of any of them. If you are at a temple you are a monk first...or you do not claim to be one at all.

I can think of several of these types of monks in the US that MIGHT be called ex-novice monks or even ex-monks...but none of these I am referring to are now monks...regardless of what they may or may not have been in the past.

Now, if I were a Catholic priest and went to another country, got married, and had kids, would it be right for me to continue to wear the collar?

We all allow for way to many lapses in vows in this...and why..."They are SHAOLIN monks" . To me, that is a VERY lame excuse for dishonesty or violating vows.

Fish of Fury

01-31-2002, 05:32 PM

my main contribution is this...whatever else you may say, an effort has been made to bring the art back from masters originally from the fukien region who fled china for various reasons in the past (escaping the japanese, communism etc.)

I went to what i believe was the first such modern meeting in 1992.representatives from 5 countries were there (malaysia, china , australia [incl. me], philipines and indonesia)
Every year (now every 2 years) these meetings are held, and various sifus and their students go.
an attempt was made to standardise Ngor chor (wuchu, five ancestors fist) but of course nobody really wants to change, so it's kind of amusing.
yes, the local chinese pratitioners have a very "wushu flavour" to the art IMO, but they are also open to the influences of the other more traditional sifus (who they invited after all). So all is not lost! 8)

My sifu (same as Joedoes') has been to both new temples (i think, esp the quanzhou one though, which to me seems much less commercialised) many times to teach the new monks, and i have been on these trips numerous times.

is the art original and complete? i'm not gonna walk into that sh!t fight...BUT i know from personal experience there's a lot more going on there than JUST modern wushu. (likewise though, the best masters of southern shaolin are probably not in the temples, or even in china)

Shaolindynasty

02-01-2002, 11:49 AM

GLW- What exactly is your point? Are you trying to say Shaolin isn't a temple and the monks aren't real? Are you a monk, are you even a buddhist?Why do you have the authority to say what a shaolin monk should and shouldn't do?

I am not attacking you but I want to get the point across to you that no matter what us as martial artists or buddhists think about the monks it is ultimatly up to the shaolin monks themselves to decide what their vows are/mean and what they are't/don't mean.

I think it's funny when people put down monks for breaking vows they know nothing or little about. Shaolin and chinese culture is very different than what is here in the west. That's why I don't judge what monks do, cause I have no idea what is and isn't exceptable for a Shaolin monk.

It's also funny when they say the monks break their vows while they themselves are drinking beer, scarfing down an extra sausage pizza and watching porn. Those monks live a life that some of us would never even consider and some of us have the nerve to put them down. Shaolin monks are also human and somtimes they give in to temptation nobodys perfect.

GeneChing

02-01-2002, 12:01 PM

Yes, warrior monks are a problem if you are defining monks in such narrow terms. But to be a monk, one only has to belong to the order. Each order defines it's own. The defination of western monks and nuns have little bearing on buddhist monks. And the defination of buddhist monks change from instance to instance, just as it does in western religions. Shaolin defines its order to include warrior monks and has so since the Tang.
If you ask a promoter, of course they will tell you he (or she) has the 'real' Shaolin monks. But if you ask the monks themselves, they will tell you if they are a martial monk, or an indoctrinated monk on a mission, or even an ex-monk (see our jan/feb 2002 cover story.) http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kunmagjanisk.html Usually, it's pretty easy to figure out if you have a fundamental understanding of kungfu and buddhism. Now, the warrior monks do have chan training - some quite a bit, but others not so much. To understand Shaolin, one really has to look at the individuals.
Now I'll will admit that their are charlatans too. Some of the local private schools had fake warrior monks. Most of those are shut down with the relocations of the last two years. The new abbot has made a serious effort to clean house.
I suppose a lot of Shaolin really depends on what you want to find there. It is a mirror of your preconception like any sacred place. If the mirror is dusty, you might not get any more. But if you penetrate, you might be able to get past those preconceptions and achieve some transformation. If you want to find kungfu, there is that. If you want to find wushu, it's there too. You can even find charalatans. If you want to find Buddha, well, you know what to do when you meet Buddha on the road, yes?

Shaolindynasty

02-01-2002, 12:16 PM

Ah............ Gene really knows how to word the stuff that I mean. He is truly the abbot of the Shaolin Board and is truly a "dragon spreading shaolin to the west".

Brad

02-02-2002, 08:35 AM

I think it's funny when people put down monks for breaking vows they know nothing or little about.
So, what are the vows they take? I thought a lot of them were pretty clear, like not having sex.

GLW

02-02-2002, 11:52 AM

“Yes, warrior monks are a problem if you are defining monks in such narrow terms.

But to be a monk, one only has to belong to the order. Each order defines it's own.
The defination of western monks and nuns have little bearing on buddhist monks. “

Dictionary definition:
Monk – a member of a RELIGIOUS brotherhood living in a monastery AND devoted to a discipline prescribed by his order.

If you use a different definition than the standard for the language you are using, then it is up to YOU to state and often restate your definition. To not do so is to mislead, either intentionally of unintentionally.

“And the definition of Buddhist monks change from instance to instance, just as it does in western religions.”

So, the idea here is that situational ethics and re-definition of terms is fine if it fits the needs of the person? The basic idea of what it is to be a monk, nun, priest in western religions has not changed much at all since….Oh I would have to say Martin Luther’s Reformation. That ended in the split of the Church’s and the idea of PROTESTants. The same applies to what I can find from the Buddhist monks I have encountered from several orders....tradition rules.

“Shaolin defines its order to include warrior monks and has so since the Tang. “

And exactly which of the vows or any of them are “Warrior Monks” supposed to follow? What distinguishes them from any individual that just happens to practice martial arts? You definitely open the door for a lot of misrepresentation

“If you ask a promoter, of course they will tell you he (or she) has the 'real' Shaolin monks. But if you ask the monks themselves, they will tell you if they are a martial monk, or an indoctrinated monk on a mission, or even an ex-monk (see our jan/feb 2002 cover story.)”

I have no problem with those who are honest. Problem is, I have yet to meet one. I HAVE met real monks from Chinese and Vietnamese Ch’an sects…and they DO follow the rules and ARE clear about who is and is not indoctrinated.

This is where the problem is. Misrepresentation.

If the idea is to rebuild the temples to fully functioning temples that have Buddhism AND Wushu (in the strict sense of the words Zhong Guo Wushu), the first step is to do away with the misrepresentation and confusion.

Are YOU working toward this goal?

kungfudork

02-02-2002, 12:32 PM

"Dictionary definition:
Monk – a member of a RELIGIOUS brotherhood living in a monastery AND devoted to a discipline prescribed by his order."

you seem to have confirmed gene's comments, not gone against them. the martial monks are devoted to a discipline prescribed by "HIS" order....what the full details of this devotion is, is most likely more understood by the abbot and the temple than to the laymen. even at shaolin they seem to keep each other distinguished as martial or buddhist monk. it isn't that they train one or the other, it seems to be more of which type of discipline they spend more time on. my sifu is one of the martial monks here in the US, shi xing hao. he was living at shaolin for about 11 years, and he had a buddhist master and a kungfu master. he spent most of the day training kungfu, but he also had buddhist training on a daily basis. he lived there and followed the discipline prescribed by his order, so that means he is a monk, by following the standard definition of the language.

"And exactly which of the vows or any of them are “Warrior Monks” supposed to follow? What distinguishes them from any individual that just happens to practice martial arts?

well what distinguishes them from any individaul that practices martial arts is that they take vows and become desciples of monk in the order, which gives them an order name and makes them not just a martial arts practitioner. as for the exact vows they take, i don't know....but they are indoctrined to some level, now the differences, if any, from a non-martial monk is unknown to me. i feel the point is that they are brought into the order in some way. i guess to find out to what extent, would mean going to the source. go ask abbot yongxin.

respect to all,
dieter wagner

GLW

02-02-2002, 02:31 PM

That is EXACTLY the point...to what degree do these people take oaths and vows.

If I studied under my teacher for 2 years, was haphazard in my approach, and then went and demo'ed in their name - or opened a school, I would be guilty of misrepresenting my teacher and what my teacher and style stood for.

To knowingly promote me, a person then becomes party to my misrepresentation.

I do not see the distinction between types of monks being made clear...if this is indeed a distinction. I DO see a lot of people promoting individuals who in NO way deserve to be honored in the way they uphold ANY tradition or ANY concept of martial ethics. this is NOT only for Shaolin but throughout the Wu Lin.

I am saying be honest. This is NOt happenning...

I have yet to read the background of ANY monk that stands up to the scrutiny of what really happened in China in regards to the temple.

All it would take for people like me to say "no poblem" is for the temples to openly state that they are using wushu foks as monks to promote an awareness of Shaolin to raise money so they can rebuild the temple and the Shaolin order.

When you have been involved in the staging of the monk shows and see the behind the scenes stuff....or talked with those in China who make fun of the 9 to 5 monks with families....well, let me just say that there is a lot of stuff to be cleaned up to regain the stature that should be there.

kungfudork

02-02-2002, 08:19 PM

GLW,
i understand where you are coming from, but i feel it is ingnorant to stereotype every monk from shaolin. if you have had personal experience with some of the monks and the tours then you can state your opinion on them.
i know alot of these tours are made up of regular students sometimes and usually only couple of indoctrined monks. and alot of times their skills are not that impressive, but this isn't always the case.
i agree if you study under your teacher for 2 years and open a school then you are misrepresenting the art, because you have not grasped the true wealth of your art. i can only speak for my teacher, he studied at shaolin for over 10 years and studied other martial arts prior to that. he loves the martial arts and he learned as much as he could. he knows the contemporary stuff and the traditional. i feel that anyone who sees the way he moves when performing tradtional forms would never question his power and precision of technique. it looks nothing like contemporary wushu......there is a big difference.
i am not trying to tell you that your interpretation/opinion is wrong.....you can speak the truth as much as i do, but i feel that you are doing wrong by stereotyping those from shaolin into some kind of disgraceful worthless conspiring group. i cannot speak for the other monks, because i don't have any real one on one contact with them. so i feel i can't defend or condem them.....i don't have that knowledge. i just don't see why everyone is determined to make shaolin out to be a big conspiracy, what do you gain from this.....how do you feel you are helping. this type of thing goes on for every style of martial arts....there is always someone misrepresenting and taking advantage of people, and i think it will always go on. i am not saying it is right by any means, but it is part of life and misrepresentation exists in every aspect of life. what is the big crusade against shaolin. if you find a good teacher then you are on the right track, if you find you are with a bad teacher then you move on to another. you will always gain some greater knowledge from any kind of experience good or bad. there are only 5 monks in the states and 1 ex-monk....so that is 5 schools in the US and i think there are only about that many throughout europe. where is the big threat, why all the hype?
do any of you here that are bashing the whole shaolin lot, train with or ever trained with any of the monks. have you spent time with of them...not a few hours, but months or years getting to know them? if you have then you can talk about that person anyway you like, because you really got to know them to a descent extent. lets just please try to stop stereotyping and being prejudice. maybe i could say everyone who is trying to discredit the monks are just on a mission to promote themselves or their school as being the "real thing". now this statement might have some truth, but 100% of the people discrediting shaolin don't fall into that category, so i can't really say that. see my point.......if you want to wax intelectual(sp?) then you have to stop stereotyping and try to look deeper into the situation.

man, i am sorry for rambling on and on!!!!!!respect to all and good luck in your training, may you find the truths you seek!

thanks,
dieter

GLW

02-02-2002, 11:59 PM

KFD,

I understand...and I am voicing my doubts and misgivings over them.

They ARE indeed based upon a number of personal experiences with said monks over the past few years at various national level events as well as in dealing with their students.

I will say this...they ARE in my experience quite qualified to teach. Their students, when they show up to compete, have good solid basics and strength (some of the adult ones can be total space cadets...but then again, that is in anything you do).

However, watching a monk insult his students in public and call them stupid for a simple thing that anyone would do is not pleasant. Seeing two monks who started out teaching together have to be removed from professional duties because they had a falling out and would score the other student's down is not a good thing.

So...I am a major Doubting Thomas. Then again, I am also a major gadfly in the strictest Socratic sense. I tend to scream the emperor has no clothes on instances where the acclaimed "Masters" exhibit less than masterful manners and such. Never on emotion...always on points of principle...and that is where my problem is here.

Pledging to a teacher is a serious thing. The things expected of a Tu Di (disciple student) are serious business. I just think that on the other end of that, the things that SHOULD be expected of a teacher, master, monk, etc... are equally serious.

kungfudork

02-03-2002, 12:49 AM

GLW,
wow....do i know you? i just noticed that you are here in houston. you know about the dallas competition. i was there too. as far as the duties thing, i don't think it was brought on by either of the monks personally.....but a member of one party complained and made a big deal out of it.....so, jimmy wong handled it quite professionally and decided if there was any possibility of a problem, then both sides will step down from their duties. smart.

i agree that calling a student stupid seems insulting and could have been, but i have also found that the limited english vocabulary these monks have lends them to saying things differently. you have to be around them enough to really understand the thinking behind some of the english words.

i hope this is the case here, so maybe you can ease your feelings. i visited shaolin temple for a month in 1996 and i was shocked to see how cruel the teachers seemed to be to the students. yelling at the students, sometimes popping them in the legs with a small stick. they really dig down and push the students, but i feel now that this is the way they help the student find their full potential. it is really unorthodox, but let me tell you what changed my mind. i was watching some kids train near the tagou school down the street from shaolin temple. they were between the ages of probably 8-14. the were practicing forms i think, and one kid kept getting it wrong. the coach yelled at him and he just kind of laughed it off. he did it wrong again, this time he recieved a swift hit with a stick....i was shocked, it really caught me off guard. the kid still kind of laughed it off. he did it wrong once more...this time the coach told him to come over and sit down, stop training. the kid went into a fit, he was screaming and crying and begging to please keep training. this opened up a whole new world to me. these kids were willing to get beat a little, yelled at all day and that was fine, but if you told them they couldn't train...it was like you were killing them.

i guess my point was, or was supposed to be, that the monks in houston haven't been in the US that long and they still have the mindset of training the way they were trained. they have come a long way already. i visited them here in 1999 and watched a few classes, they were very strict and hard on the students. i think that is why they only had chinese students....any non-chinese would have walked in and thought these guys were crazy teaching like this. i can speak for my teacher, he is learning the way of the west. he thinks it is funny that here you must tell the kid they are doing good and to keep trying even if they haven't got a clue about what they are doing. good old US posotive re-enforcement theory is what i like to call it. i don't know if i think it really works. i mean if you are told you are doing good all the time, why would you ever want to try harder and improve....you think you are doing just fine. that is why the skill level of the US compared to the Chinese at this point in history is so different....they use "negative re-enforcement" to make the student reach their full potential and maybe even then some. i guess both methods have posotives and negatives.

well once again i have rambled on and on. hey GLW if you want to talk more or even visit the school you can send me an email. go to my webpage and there is a link there for "contact".
i am currently training with Shi Xing Hao. Our school is Shaolin Kung Fu Academy and we are located inside the Chinese Civic Center.

respect to all! again, sorry for the ramble.

thanks,
dieter

Brad

02-03-2002, 07:45 AM

yelling at the students, sometimes popping them in the legs with a small stick. they really dig down and push the students, but i feel now that this is the way they help the student find their full potential.

Yeah, this seems to be the norm in China. When my coach first started teaching here, he was kind of like that. He had a stick and gave one of the kids a light smack. I was like :eek: Of course, then we had to explain to him that that's not legal here :p

In regards to positive reenforcment, my old coach said the key was to just point out something good the student is doing with every criticism. Like "Nice expresion, but you need to work on your posture."

GeneChing

02-04-2002, 01:11 PM

Wude is a big concept and while I would hope all masters and students ascribe to this ideal, only a very few of us achieve it successfully. Monk or not, any teacher should ideally uphold martial ethics, but in reality, such ethics are hard to uphold, especially when you get into the charity part. This is not the best ruler for judement, for when applied to any religious order, you will certainly find flaws. Such is the nature of dealing with real humans. We are all flawed. But we can all aspire, and a few of us, a very few, can achieve.

There is great variation in Buddhist monks - from which way they face when they meditate to what they eat. Some Tibetan Buddhist orders practice ritual meat eating - even eating forbidden meats like human - which flies in the face of stereotypic vegetarianism. Even the Dalai Lama eats meat daily. He has some weird dispensation that allows him to take chicken soup for his health.

I've have been working very hard to distinuguish the warrior monks and their role at Shaolin. Most westerners are limited about their knowledge of monks and temples. While the Kung Fu TV show did a lot to open CMA to the public, it left some serious perceptual distortions. Ironically, since I'm in CMA, the martial monks are theones that capture our interest. Buddhism, while an amusng back story, only attracts a scant few - the Buddhists among us. But the warrior monks espouse Buddhism too - they have been trained in it and while they are not necessarily Buddhist masters, they express it in their practice much as the Ikebana or Kyudo masters might.

If you examine the message that Abbot Shi Yongxin extended to our Shaolin special issue, you will find that he fully acknowledges to wuseng (warrior monks) - He states that they "should meet the standards of monks" but he doesn't go so far to say that it is mandatory or they will be ejected from the order. Surely, Yongxin would like to bring all the wuseng back to the fold so to speak. But I think, because of that weird rebirth Shaolin has just undergone, Shaolin owes the wuseng so much that they might not be ready to draw that line, at least not right now.

Shaolindynasty

02-05-2002, 09:03 AM

Gene wrote an article awhile back that would clear allot of things "shaolin skeptics" bring up when trying to discredit the temple. It was called the 8 truths of shaolin temple. It was in an inside kungfu mag so he can't put it up on this site. Gene I hope you could do a rewrite and put it up right along side the sections on this site about "how to find a kungfu school" cause I think present day situations demand somthing like this.

It's hard enough that we have so many frauds in america, but I can't really beleive how many people try to corrupt the source. Shaolin temple is real students still train in kungfu and buddhism there. Whatever is official there or whatever it's external shell may look like it's spirit still lives. Why so many people are bent on burning their bridges to an incredible amount of knowledge is beyond me. Maybe jealousy, I don't know.

GeneChing

02-05-2002, 11:36 AM

I'm amazed you remember that article. I don't feel right about doing a rewrite of that article, nor can I reprint it since it was for IKF.

Shaolindynasty

02-05-2002, 11:49 AM

I remeber it cause of all the shaolin bashing that goes on here. It's a great article to show people to debunk allot of the misconceptions they have on what a Shaolin Monk should be. Not to mention I have a stack of magazines that have articles about Shaolin. It just happened that I looked at that issue again the other day.

I still think you should write a book or reprint your old shaolin articles.

GeneChing

02-05-2002, 03:14 PM

The book idea again... Maybe someday. Right now, I'm too busy with other projects. But thanks for your encouragement and support. At least I know I'll sell one copy. :)

Brad

02-05-2002, 04:39 PM

It's hard enough that we have so many frauds in america, but I can't really beleive how many people try to corrupt the source. Shaolin temple is real students still train in kungfu and buddhism there. Whatever is official there or whatever it's external shell may look like it's spirit still lives. Why so many people are bent on burning their bridges to an incredible amount of knowledge is beyond me. Maybe jealousy, I don't know.
I think there are a number of reasons.
1. Jealousy/resentment. Not nesesarily their of their skills, but because of the celebrity status their given, and the "monk worship" atitude of some people.
2. Complete distrust of any religous org. sponsered by a government. Esp. a Communist government that has been very anti-religion/freedom of thought.
3. Hatred of anything that has to do with the Chinese comunist government. The cultural revolution wasn't that long ago.
4. Poor examples set by the monks in the US.
5. Frauds in the US will also talk bad about the monks, claiming only they have the real thing. Although people in this category might be more likely to try to asociate themselves with the current Shaolin Temple. The old "buy a lineage" scam ;)
6. Then there's others who genuinely feel that the monks are just outright fakes, and are trying to educate the public on the "true story".

Just some ideas.

I don't hate the monks myself, but I kind of fall into #2, which makes me a little suspicous of any monk(official or not), and a little bit of #4. Overall, I try to take things on a monk by monk basis. :) It's really learn a lot by reading these pro/anti Shaolin arguments, though.

red_fists

02-05-2002, 05:55 PM

Hi All.

Here is my understadning of the differences between Christian Monks and Buddhists Monks.

A Christian monk has to abide by all the Rules of the order.

A Buddhist Monk has eleven vows that they can take, they more vows they take they more esteemed they are.
Do not eat Meat.
Be chastise.
etc.
One of the vows is not to take a Life.

So, yes, a Warrior Monk can be Buddhist Monk who hasn't taken that particular vow.
I think some Temples burned or painted dots on their Monks head to show which vow they had taken in order to differentiate them from fake monks.
Pls,correct me if I am wrong, but this is my understanding

r.(shaolin)

02-05-2002, 10:24 PM

I don’t have any problems with the monks. They have the right to make a living, raise money for reconstruction etc., etc. From what I can see they are contributing to Chinese society, as well as here in the west, in very positive ways. And lastly we are martial brothers.

My objections are about the implication that historically martial arts were integral to the the practice of Ch’an as practiced at Shaolin. I believe this is a fiction. The evidence points that monks of Shaolin did practice martial art, but it all points to the proposition that it’s primary function was the defense of the monastery.

Secondly the notion that the martial practices at Shaolin represents the martial arts as practiced at Shaolin Temple prior to the 1900’s. I don’t believe it. Some of the reasons I’ve stated in other posts.

Shaolin Monastery was a ‘shih-fang ts’sung-lin’ during its entire history. This means it was a state monastery which was constructed and supported by the state. One could say it represented official Buddhism and was responsible to the imperial state. The number of these state monasteries were few. They were responsible for conducting official ceremonies for the imperial government. Their members were ordained by the Emperor and had supervisory members (san-kang) which were appointed by the emperor. One of the characteristics of the large monasteries was that they were much ‘stricter’ than the monasteries built by the nobility and commoners.

Official records were kept for monks residing in state monasteries. “Fraudulent monks known as ‘wei-lan seng’ was common and an ongoing problem for the government though out most of Buddhist history in Imperial China. Much of the reason for the growth of ‘wei-lan seng’ was financial, as monks were exempt from taxes and from from doing unpaid labor for the state. (These exemption however were at times reneged on).

How did the large public monasteries like Shaolin make their money?
It wasn’t from begging as someone suggested. Their revenues came from rent of lands, industrial operations (such as mills), interest on loans, and thirdly from donations and fees for various religious services. These large monasteries were often granted the right to collect grain and other produce from households ((seng-ch’i hu) allotted to them (in many cases through forced deportation of farmers to the isolated and underpopulated areas where the large imperial monasteries were generally located.). I would like to point out that it was not uncommon for a large number of army households known as ‘ chun-hu’ to be assigned to the large state monasteries.

These large monasteries, during some dynastic periods, housed both large numbers of monks as well substantial wealth in goods. Furthermore many, and in particular the Chan monasteries, were in remote, underpopulated and under protected regions. This explains why architecturally they were walled and why ‘chun-hu’ were assigned to them as samgha (Buddhist) households.
Their exposure to threats was real. As an example, during the Sui Dynasty bandits in fact succeed in occupying Shaolin Monastery for a short time before finally being driven out by the monks.

One other little known fact concerning the military and Buddhist monks, took place in the years 574 to 577. Because of the fighting taking place in the region where Shaolin Monastery is locacted, the imperial government ordered all monks to preform military service. This was about 79 years after the construction of the Shaolin.

kind regards
r.

GeneChing

02-08-2002, 12:12 PM

The rent income aspect is very astute. Most people miss that. Goes all the way back to that old Li Shinmin legend, but landowning was a definate parrt of Shaolin. I addressed this in an article - was it the Shaolin special? Anyways, yourpoint is well taken.

As for martial arts being an integral part of Ch'an, that's an interesting dichotomy and the one that's the most problematic amongst most Buddhists. It's easy to disregard the Tamo creation myth (we had a thread on that earlier too) but this raises a chicken and egg problem. Ch'an is all encompassing. Once you get it, it infiltrates everything you do - painting, cooking, sitting or kungfu. But what is the door to Ch'an? A lot of Tamo's point was to reject dogma, to not get it through sutra, to consider the possiblity of spontaneous enlightment. So it doesn't come from conventional instruction, it comes from practice of arts like painting, cooking, siiting or kungfu. The answer to the koan is simple - the chicken is the egg.

Tiger on Duty

02-10-2002, 03:09 AM

hello i study 2 forms of southern shaolin from the temple in fukien, which my master has trained at studying chi gung and fist forms, basically our forms do resemble nan quan alot thou of course being self defence oreinted not display, we learn a fist form and a kiking form to supplement our pak mei training and teach us the difference between internal and external styles, from what i have seen of traditional southern shaolin it has far less flashy kiks and more complecated hand techniques than its northen sister system, thou it doesnt have the complexity that later southern styles contain such as hung gar or choy li fut, that is just my opinion.

ARMY DOG

02-11-2002, 06:47 PM

All arts including the "Wheel of Life" demo team currently practiced in the temples is MODERN WU SHU as this is the only style the RED CHINESE government will allow.For information on the AUTHENTIC SHAO-LIN MARTIAL ARTS of the SOUTHERN FUKIEN TEMPLE see the website"shao-lin.com".The current GRANDMASTER as well as his top students have trained & demonstrated at the modern SHAO-LIN temples in China.Please note:REAL SHAO-LIN KUNG FU is alive & well in commie China it is just underground at this time.

Brad

02-11-2002, 09:13 PM

I was wondering when Shaolin-Do would come into the picture :P

All arts including the "Wheel of Life" demo team currently practiced in the temples is MODERN WU SHU as this is the only style the RED CHINESE government will allow.For information on the AUTHENTIC SHAO-LIN MARTIAL ARTS of the SOUTHERN FUKIEN TEMPLE see the website"shao-lin.com".The current GRANDMASTER as well as his top students have trained & demonstrated at the modern SHAO-LIN temples in China.Please note:REAL SHAO-LIN KUNG FU is alive & well in commie China it is just underground at this time.
All I have to say is... :D lol!

firepalm

02-12-2002, 12:51 AM

I'm sorry can't help it, gotta speak... true yes most of what the various 'monks' do from Shaolin is in fact Wushu. However what they do is a **** site closer to REAL Shaolin then that piece of crap 'Shaolin Do' Kenpo bull s**t!!! Shaolin Do; the poser wanna be pretend Kenpo art for middle America white folk who don't wanna actually train too hard while they run around in Karate uniforms (cause that what's they're programming tells they should wear)...

As to those freakin lame ass white folk demonstrating at Shaolin temples in China... god **** anyone who can pay for an air ticket & present a small amount of money to 'whomever' in China can demonstrate, have stone markers placed, have 'fan' pictures with monks, etc.... THIS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN AS VALIDATION of those EFC Kenpo, mass consumption, martial art for middle America, pot bellies hanging over their black belts... as real 'Shaolin'.... arrrrggggh....

They are every bit 'REAL' Shaolin as Temple Kung Fu, Villari, etc... at least the current monks have some genuine skill...

Uhhh, gak, gak... Gotta curb my emotions.... Willow Sword might challenge me online....

Brad

02-12-2002, 07:03 AM

Come on now, Willow's cool. He stood up for the style which he believed in and lost. And, instead of making excuses, he left his school and is seeking out more realistic training metheods. Takes a lot of guts to leave a school you've been involved in for years.

Shaolindynasty

02-12-2002, 08:14 AM

Ugh. I ignored that post cause I knew it was shaolin do and I didn't want this thread to turn into one of those kinds :rolleyes:
Can we not talk about shaolin do here please? Start a new topic.

KFQ Admin

02-12-2002, 10:58 AM

There's a big myth in this country that it's still illegal to practice traditional Kungfu in Communist China but that's simiply not true. There's actually a national traditional Kungfu tournament that alternates with with national wushu championships, every other year. Additionally, many of the major tournaments in China require that you compete one traditional form to earn an all-round championship.

And if you go to China, you'd have to be blind to not see the traditional stuff. It's pretty easy to find, just not as pervasive as modern Wushu.

GeneChing

02-12-2002, 11:19 AM

I was using the other terminal and didn't realize the last guy left it logged on as KFQ Admin.

joedoe

03-05-2002, 06:17 PM

Actually, there are a lot of myths about China that are bandied around :)

ktkungfu

02-13-2011, 02:47 PM

kfman5F

02-13-2011, 06:41 PM

A couple of links for you.

http://www.konghankungfu.com/shaolin.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZeDyL0HOjk

SergeTk

02-13-2011, 06:46 PM

looking to train in China this summer and i wanted to train at the southern shaolin temple.

Any info for the southern shaolin temple?

I believe it's in Quanzhou?

Any info on how I can train there would be greatly appreciated:)

http://www.kungfusupply.nl/southern_shaolin_temple_in_quanz.htm
Hope this link give u a little idea about the temple .... as its also points out main style in the temple is 5 ancestors...

GeneChing

02-14-2011, 10:54 AM

Hit up our article search engine (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ArticleSearch.php). Plug in 'Southern Shaolin' and pull down 'find ALL words' or 'find EXACT phrase' and you'll see.

I'm moving this to our Shaolin forum, as it may get better response there.

ktkungfu

02-14-2011, 03:05 PM

http://www.kungfusupply.nl/southern_shaolin_temple_in_quanz.htm
Hope this link give u a little idea about the temple .... as its also points out main style in the temple is 5 ancestors...

Thanks, but I did see this before and there's no copntact info?:confused:

Thats what Im looking for. There's no web site or contact info on these sites. I've done dozens of searches on the web NADA.

I dont want to fly out to China without talking to someone on how to get there.

GeneChing

02-14-2011, 04:01 PM

We got into this more in our print articles, but there weren't any Southern temples officially recognized by Songshan Shaolin, and there were multiple competing sites for the Southern temple. Note that this is in regards to your Quanzhou inquiry, not the Yunnan temples (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42957&page=4).

That's the thing with southern Shaolin. It's actually rather complicated. :rolleyes:

SergeTk

02-19-2011, 05:51 PM

If its real Southern temple or not hardly makes a difference at this point. Quanzhou temple has far more incomon with old days shaolin than songshan does, which is more conserned with making $$ and trying to control Shaolin name....

HOLLY CRAP THERE IS A TEMPLE WHICH MORE CONCERNED WITH SPREADING AND RESTORING TRADITIONAL CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS AND NOT MAKING MONEY..... WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TOO ... :eek:

David Jamieson

02-20-2011, 07:14 AM

All temples function within the parameters of the social construct in which they exist.

Shaolin is a name. To despise them because of how they function in one day and age and not another when they have functioned in myriad ways regarding the secular world over the centuries is to miss the point of what Shaolin is.

For me personally, Shaolin Temple is a place with a history that is long and storied. But Shaolin is also an idea, in my own mind that focuses on what has come from Shaolin as opposed to the external look of what it is or has been.

Martial Arts, Zen and Healthful practices/medicine are the real treasures. Not some sifu, or some monk, or some abbot or some building. These are all small cogs in a much greater wheel. Like each of us. Sometimes the cogs are worn or broken and impede the turning of the wheel, but the wheel itself is so great that it is merely slowed by the broken and damaged cogs with which it is driven. Over time, if neglected, the wheel will stop, but with care and maintenance, it will turn as long as we breath.

In other words, Shaolin is everywhere now. It is not one place anymore as the seed is growing in people, widely.

Semillas

07-24-2012, 04:13 AM

TenTigers

07-24-2012, 08:58 AM

it is now Disneyland.:rolleyes:

David Jamieson

07-26-2012, 05:18 AM

There are five lines or main branches of Shaolin, recognized by some and rejected by many. What is it known about the Monastery of Fujian whose remains found some decades ago and were they reconstructing?

Those who recognize it fail to defer to the main temple proper and therefore perpetuate an untruth.

There is 1 Shaolin Temple. That is the one at Songshan.

The remains of the temple found in Fujian were not set as Shaolin. It was a buddhist temple that got destroyed during the 300 years of Qing reign.

The qing destroyed literally hundreds and hundreds of temples that they felt might have too much wealth power or influence.

You see, Mahayana buddhism was strong in China. It promised that anyone could achieve Nirvana through continued acts of merit. So people gave great amounts of money and stuffs to buddhist temples to get that merit and subsequently, the buddhist monasteries and temples were soon rivaling the government of the day itself.

And so, temples were rubbed out, their wealth taken and the monks spread out or killed. Turbulent times.

When it comes to history, there are better sources than tall stories from the kwoon. :)

boh

08-15-2012, 03:19 PM

hi,

I hope I'm not too late with this reply..

There IS a Southern Shaolin Temple!

It is located in QuanZhou, its about 45 min bus ride from XiaMen the nearest international airport. I've been to QunZhou about 4 time over the last 7 years, to attend the Southern Shaolin International Conference. Its a yearly event, with about 30-50 different schools/groups participatine from all over the world, mainly from Asia, with Europe and America represented, with styles like 5-Ancestors, White Crane, TaiZu (these are predominantly Fujian styles) and Wing Chun, Southern Mantis, ErMei present as well.

Over the years, since 2005, the temple has been undergoing restoration, and completed around 2010, when it was offically opened. Its also has a youngish Abbot (my guess, 30'ish) who is trained in Bhuddism and Martial Arts. (I saw him perform a very credible Luohan form) in 2011 (my last visit), and since then has a live-in retinue to trainee monks.

The dominant style in Quanzhou (and probably in the temple) is 5-Ancestors with TaiZu as a close second. The various White Crane styles would be more towards the east, in towns/cities like FuZhou, YongChun.

The problem is, I don't think the temple has a program to take in foreign students, like the Henan Temple. At least not when I was last there in Nov 2011.

As for whether its recognised by SongSan Northern Shaolin Temple, I think it is, as it has the full support of the provincial Fujian government which footed the bill for the restoration and is promoting it.

As for its authencity, those in our 5-Ancestors lineage (Chee Kim Thong) believe storngly so, as our grand master's master trained there directly. And apparently at that time, it was a shadow of it former self. That's part of our oral history anyway. And I would think the other 5-Ancestor lineage (the Kong Han guys.) would also support its authencity.

I also think that the reason why its hard to get contact and info about training there, is the temple is trying to get its own processes/administration sorted out first. And recruiting foreign trainees is probably not of high priority, now. From what I see, they are certainly a lot less 'commercial' than its brethren in the north ;-)

However, if you are keen to learn 5-Ancestors, there are other options, one of which is to visit us here in Malaysia ;-)

GeneChing

05-27-2014, 09:08 AM

9 photos total if you follow the link.

Southern Shaolin culture in Quanzhou (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/n/2014/0527/c98649-8732943.html)

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/NMediaFile/2014/0527/FOREIGN201405270845000076530373317.jpg
(People's Daily Online) 08:41, May 27, 2014(Photo/Wang Dongming)
Quanzhou is the birth place of Southern Shaolin martial art. Started from Jin and Tang Dynasties, and thrived in Song Dynasty, the Southern Shaolin martial art has been spread worldwide. The Quan Zhou Shaolin Temple as the carrier of Southern Shaolin martial art combines the traditional customs of Quanzhou and also the humanity essence of people of Quanzhou. It spreads with the development of the Maritime Silk Road and becomes an emotional bond between the Quanzhou people overseas and those at home.

GeneChing

09-18-2014, 08:43 AM

This is part 1 of a three part series: Three Shaolin Monasteries in Fujian Province: The Jewels of Southern Shaolin: Quanzhou (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1175) by Gregory Brundage

GeneChing

10-02-2014, 09:15 AM

This is part 2 of a three part series: Three Shaolin Monasteries in Fujian Province: The Jewels of Southern Shaolin Part 2: Putian (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1176) by Gregory Brundage

TaichiMantis

10-02-2014, 12:53 PM

My Sifu was in Fujian province the last two weeks visiting his village and relatives. He is now in Vietnam for two weeks visiting the cck tcpm schools there. Will have to ask him if he's been to any of the temples there.

GeneChing

10-15-2014, 06:46 AM

THREE SHAOLIN MONASTERIES IN FUJIAN PROVINCE: THE JEWELS OF SOUTHERN SHAOLIN: PART 3: FUQING (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1181) by Gregory Brundage

GeneChing

05-19-2015, 11:25 AM

Pretty pix...

Monks practice martial art at Quanzhou Shaolin Temple(1/8) (http://www.ecns.cn/visual/hd/2015/05-18/66125.shtml)
2015-05-18 08:33 Xinhua Editor:Li Yan

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2015/05/18/9f5c0a0f69224798bbc3324a93a23aa9.jpg
A monk meditates on a rooftop at the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou City, southeast China's Fujian Province, May 13, 2015. Located in the east of the Qingyuan Mountain of Quanzhou, the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, also called the South Shaolin Temple, is the birthplace of the South Shaolin martial art, which has spread to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao and even Southeast Asia since Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties. It's also jointly called "the South and North Shaolin" with Songshan Shaolin Temple in central China's Henan Province. Zen, the doctrine which every monk learning the Shaolin martial art should observe, refers to a frame of mind which gets rid of greed, anger and confusion and helps oneself reach inner peace as to become more powerful and invincible. (Photo: Xinhua/Wei Peiquan)

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2015/05/18/ae81935fa61541ddb8761e6c95f42613.jpg
Monks practice martial art on a rooftop at the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou City, southeast China's Fujian Province, May 15, 2015. Located in the east of the Qingyuan Mountain of Quanzhou, the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, also called the South Shaolin Temple, is the birthplace of the South Shaolin martial art, which has spread to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao and even Southeast Asia since Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties. It's also jointly called "the South and North Shaolin" with Songshan Shaolin Temple in central China's Henan Province. Zen, the doctrine which every monk learning the Shaolin martial art should observe, refers to a frame of mind which gets rid of greed, anger and confusion and helps oneself reach inner peace as to become more powerful and invincible. (Photo: Xinhua/Wei Peiquan)

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2015/05/18/2cf9e4aeeb294825b29312166835cfb6.jpg
Photo taken on May 13, 2015 shows a bell tower at the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou City, southeast China's Fujian Province. Located in the east of the Qingyuan Mountain of Quanzhou, the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, also called the South Shaolin Temple, is the birthplace of the South Shaolin martial art, which has spread to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao and even Southeast Asia since Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties. It's also jointly called "the South and North Shaolin" with Songshan Shaolin Temple in central China's Henan Province. Zen, the doctrine which every monk learning the Shaolin martial art should observe, refers to a frame of mind which gets rid of greed, anger and confusion and helps oneself reach inner peace as to become more powerful and invincible. (Photo: Xinhua/Wei Peiquan)

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2015/05/18/6e5ac265eb7d41948641f919968c4764.jpg
Monks attend a ceremony at the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou City, southeast China's Fujian Province, May 16, 2015. Located in the east of the Qingyuan Mountain of Quanzhou, the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, also called the South Shaolin Temple, is the birthplace of the South Shaolin martial art, which has spread to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao and even Southeast Asia since Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties. It's also jointly called "the South and North Shaolin" with Songshan Shaolin Temple in central China's Henan Province. Zen, the doctrine which every monk learning the Shaolin martial art should observe, refers to a frame of mind which gets rid of greed, anger and confusion and helps oneself reach inner peace as to become more powerful and invincible. (Photo: Xinhua/Wei Peiquan)

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2015/05/18/54b0a0dbe7cf4cba9f7362849e7e2397.jpg
A monk reads texts at the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou City, southeast China's Fujian Province, May 14, 2015. Located in the east of the Qingyuan Mountain of Quanzhou, the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, also called the South Shaolin Temple, is the birthplace of the South Shaolin martial art, which has spread to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao and even Southeast Asia since Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties. It's also jointly called "the South and North Shaolin" with Songshan Shaolin Temple in central China's Henan Province. Zen, the doctrine which every monk learning the Shaolin martial art should observe, refers to a frame of mind which gets rid of greed, anger and confusion and helps oneself reach inner peace as to become more powerful and invincible. (Photo: Xinhua/Wei Peiquan)

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2015/05/18/cdc0993cd3b54daf9be236a093f83a7a.jpg
Monks practice martial art at the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou City, southeast China's Fujian Province, May 13, 2015. Located in the east of the Qingyuan Mountain of Quanzhou, the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, also called the South Shaolin Temple, is the birthplace of the South Shaolin martial art, which has spread to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao and even Southeast Asia since Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties. It's also jointly called "the South and North Shaolin" with Songshan Shaolin Temple in central China's Henan Province. Zen, the doctrine which every monk learning the Shaolin martial art should observe, refers to a frame of mind which gets rid of greed, anger and confusion and helps oneself reach inner peace as to become more powerful and invincible. (Photo: Xinhua/Wei Peiquan)

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2015/05/18/37677d91ad9546699a69c973d468bfd7.jpg
A monk practices martial art at the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou City, southeast China's Fujian Province, May 15, 2015. Located in the east of the Qingyuan Mountain of Quanzhou, the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, also called the South Shaolin Temple, is the birthplace of the South Shaolin martial art, which has spread to Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao and even Southeast Asia since Ming (1368-1644) and Qing (1644-1911) dynasties. It's also jointly called "the South and North Shaolin" with Songshan Shaolin Temple in central China's Henan Province. Zen, the doctrine which every monk learning the Shaolin martial art should observe, refers to a frame of mind which gets rid of greed, anger and confusion and helps oneself reach inner peace as to become more powerful and invincible. (Photo: Xinhua/Wei Peiquan)

PalmStriker

05-20-2015, 07:47 PM

:) Awesome photos! Great to see one of the existing temples of Fujian Province that was present during the development of numerous Southern styles based on Shaolin TCMA.

GeneChing

12-27-2017, 08:22 AM

Interesting articles. Someone needs to tell ECNS.CN that Abbot only has one T

Southern Shaolin's kung fu monks battle for attention (http://www.ecns.cn/2017/12-27/286103.shtml)
1 2017-12-27 16:31CGTNEditor: Gu Liping ECNS

*You've probably heard of Shaolin Temple, but did you know there's more than one in China?

In Quanzhou, in southeastern Fujian Province, monks in saffron-colored robes practice kung fu moves in front of a few dozen tourists every day.

For Abbott Shi Changding, more needs to be done to attract people and get the word out about his temple.

For many, the name Shaolin Temple immediately conjures up images of monks performing flying kicks and acrobatic tricks, as portrayed in countless movies. The temple most people know about is located in Henan Province in central China.

The origins of the Quanzhou version are more mysterious. Officially, it was established during the Tang Dynasty (618-907 AD). Legend has it that monks from the northern Shaolin Temple came south to help fight pirates. Others say they fled the north at the fall of the Ming Dynasty in the 17th century.

At one point, there were said to be several Shaolin temples in China.

In any case, Southern Shaolin Temple was destroyed by fire in the late 18th century. It was not rebuilt until 1997 and now labels itself as the "birthplace of Southern Shaolin martial arts."

Monks vs. pirates

Unlike other types of martial arts that are heavy on kicks and leg work, Southern Shaolin focuses much more on punches and arm movements.

This goes back to the Southern Shaolin monks' history of fighting pirates. On unstable terrain, such as at sea or in mountainous areas, it was easier to battle opponents with feet firmly planted on the ground, rather than try to perform elaborate jumps and flying kicks.

The weapons used are based on similar thinking: a two-meter-long wooden staff could be used to strike opponents at a distance, such as from one boat to another.

The "pa" – a sort of curved trident with metal rings – and handball-sized "double hammers" that rattle could not only harm an opponent, but also ward off wild animals in the mountains by making noise.

Nowadays, Southern Shaolin martial arts are no longer used to fight off pirates, but the craft has spread far and wide, and can now be found in southeast China's island region of Taiwan, and southeast Asia and even the US.

PR and kung fu

At the temple in Quanzhou, pupils as young as six years old practice for up to six hours per day every day to master the skills to become a proper kung fu master.

But the learning actually never ends, says Shi Ligang, head of the wushu team at the temple.

Even Abbott Shi Changding still practices two to three hours a day.

A kung fu practitioner since the age of 13, he has been with Southern Shaolin Temple since it was rebuilt. He says his mission is to help the temple gain recognition.

This has meant attending conferences, giving media interviews and generally doing public relations work for the temple.

"As the abbot of the temple, part of my job is to make more people know about Shaolin," he told CGTN on a recent visit.

In the process however, he has attracted criticism from some who argue a monk's duty is at the temple, studying scripture.

"When I take part in discussions and meetings all over the country, people ask: why isn't this Buddhist monk at the temple chanting prayers? How come he's here taking part in these activities?"

But Shi Changding insists: "I have to, otherwise no one will know who we are and what we're doing.

"We can't separate Buddhism from society and from life. If you want to carry it out to the community and to the world, you have to leave (the temple)."

A pop culture boost

One thing that has helped is kung fu movies, starting with Chang Hsin Yen's 1982 film "The Shaolin Temple," starring Li Lianjie, or Jet Li as he is better known in the West.

"The Shaolin Temple movies in the 1980s, when they came out, were hugely popular, causing kung fu fever around the world. They contributed hugely to making more people familiar with Shaolin," according to Shi Changding.

Nowadays, aspiring kung fu masters come from as far as Canada or Belgium to learn Southern Shaolin martial arts at the temple. Anyone can study kung fu at the temple as there is no prerequisite to be a monk.

At the same time, Southern Shaolin is a Buddhist temple like any other in China: amid the Bodhi trees and imposing statues, monks study the teachings of Buddha and ordinary people go to pray and burn incense.

The temple is still undergoing renovation and expansion work but once completed, it is expected to become one of the largest temples in China, covering some 400 "mu" (26.7 hectares).

Still, on cool mornings when the only sound on the hill is that of dozens of monks moving in unison and punching the air, it is easy to feel transported to the time when warrior monks battled pirates.

Chongqing Shaolin Temple in pictures (1/4) (http://www.ecns.cn/visual/hd/2017/12-27/150071.shtml)
2017-12-27 10:48Ecns.cn Editor:Yao Lan

http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2017/12/27/6dee0b688e3b461bb59124dc067d0965.jpg
http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2017/12/27/2de0d75918ac4f998e86998188cc541d.jpg
http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2017/12/27/89d5fea24af8458697fc124f1e6657da.jpg
http://www.ecns.cn/hd/2017/12/27/aa54e918ae3f4dd68952500baf477617.jpg
Monks conduct their daily practice at a Shaolin Temple in the southwest Chinese municipality of Chongqing on December 14, 2017. Monks have been living in the Chongqing Temple for close to two years. Built at a cost of some 300 million yuan, the Shaolin Temple in Chongqing is the fourth Shaolin Temple in China behind ones in Quanzhou in Fujian, Tianjin, and the original in Henan Province. (Photo/VCG)

GeneChing

07-05-2019, 07:30 AM

There's a flag waving vid behind the link.

4th July
International Eisteddfod: Southern Temple Shaolin Monks make British debut with intense performance (https://www.denbighshirefreepress.co.uk/news/17749536.international-eisteddfod-southern-temple-saholin-monks-make-british-debut-intense-performance/)
By Arron Evans

ONE of the most eye-catching performances on day four of the Llangollen International Eisteddfod came from a team of monks who had travelled all the way from China to perform.

The Southern Shaolin Temple Warrior Monks, first formed 15 years ago, had been performing all over South East Asia over the last year before appearing in North Wales on Thursday.

The performance group train six hours a day, six days a week at the monastery in Putian, China and had previously visited Llangollen back in March.

https://www.denbighshirefreepress.co.uk/resources/images/10084681.jpg?type=article-full
The Southern Temple Shaolin Monks at the International Eisteddfod

They say they were inspired to return to the Town thanks to the “peacefulness and beauty” of Wales and the “warmth of the people”.

During a high-energy performance at the Eisteddfod on Thursday, the monks showcased their kung fu mastery.

The group, whose members are as young as nine years old, performed routines with swords and whips and even broke a piece of iron in half.

Kung Fu Master Pol Wong, who teaches classes in Wrexham and is the go-between between the Shaolin Monks and Europe, said: "This is the first time in the Temple's 1500 year history that this group have performed in Britain.

"They've really enjoyed being here and everyone else seemed to enjoy watching them as well which is great."

After a dazzling performance in front of a large crowd out on the grounds, the monks took to the globe before performing alongside other international acts at "The Gathering" headliner.

On Sunday, the Monks will be performing once more at the William Aston Hall in Wrexham for 7pm before heading back to China next week.

Made famous by the 2000 film ‘Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon’, the Shaolin style of kung fu dates back 1,500 years and brings with it the traditions, power and majesty of 32 dynasties of kung fu fighting.

Shaolin fighting monks hold the reputation throughout China as highly honourable, courageous and greatly skilled. Their model of fighting serves today as virtuous and spiritual representation of the Great Spirit present in each living being.

THREADS
The Modern Southern Shaolin Temple (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?8676-The-Modern-Southern-Shaolin-Temple)
Pol Wong (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?55049-People%92s-Council-of-North-Wales-Pol-Wong-a-33rd-generation-shaolin-monk)

GeneChing

09-22-2022, 10:25 AM

18:00, 21-Sep-2022
Translate
Live: Inheritors of kung fu spirit at Southern Shaolin Temple (https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-09-21/Live-Inheritors-of-kung-fu-spirit-at-Southern-Shaolin-Temple-1dvZ1OGoGgo/index.html)
Quanzhou, China

Kung fu, or Chinese martial arts, is a traditional sport that advocates for virtue and peace, with its roots set in ancient Chinese history and philosophy. Follow CGTN reporter Lucy to visit the talented young inheritors of kung fu at Southern Shaolin Temple in southeast China's Quanzhou City, and watch how they engage in training with the goal of taking the tradition forward.

follow the link for the vid.

GeneChing

01-02-2023, 09:40 AM

13:55, 02-Jan-2023
Shaolin spirit lives on in kung fu pupils (https://news.cgtn.com/news/2023-01-02/Shaolin-spirit-lives-on-in-kung-fu-pupils-1ggiWpJcmVa/index.html)
Lucy Lv

Many of those who are curious about Chinese culture have heard about kung fu. Also known as Chinese martial arts, kung fu is a fighting style that advocates virtue and peace, with its roots in ancient Chinese history and philosophy. Presently, in Quanzhou's Southern Shaolin Temple, a group of pupils are engaged in kung fu training with the noble goal of carrying the tradition forward.

05:52
Quanzhou is an ancient port city in China's coastal province of Fujian. It has long been a place where people from around the world experience traditional Chinese culture.

Originated in the Shaolin Temple in Henan, the Shaolin Kung Fu style is considered an important style in China and is widely followed around the world. Legend has it that a group of Shaolin Kung Fu masters came to Quanzhou and set up the southern branch.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2023-01-02/Shaolin-spirit-lives-on-in-kung-fu-pupils-1ggiWpJcmVa/img/5e1e6c4fba30426c86a16f3c7e1e9448/5e1e6c4fba30426c86a16f3c7e1e9448.jpeg
Kung fu pupils practice with their master on the wooden blocks at the Southern Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou.

Xu Haican became a pupil at the Southern Shaolin Temple two years ago. "I used to watch kung fu movies when I was little and I fell in love with it," Haican said with a smile on his face. "So I'm happy to finally be able to learn it."

The temple is open to kung fu lovers of different ages and has even had students from overseas. Master Shi Licheng is Haican's teacher. For this cohort of boys aged 5 to 16, Licheng teaches them not only kung fu, but also traditional Chinese arts such as calligraphy and tea appreciation. He hopes that these experiences can "strengthen their bodies as well as their minds."

But the pupils' core learning area is the southern Wuzu Fist. It is typical to southern Shaolin Kung Fu and was officially listed as a form of national intangible cultural heritage in China in 2008.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2023-01-02/Shaolin-spirit-lives-on-in-kung-fu-pupils-1ggiWpJcmVa/img/a59d2aa52b684a12b00a5d91c2e5d5b9/a59d2aa52b684a12b00a5d91c2e5d5b9.jpeg
Xu Haican shows his kung fu pose.

Licheng says that Haican's wuzu fist ability has reached a good level in a short time. The technique has given him strength of body and mind, as each movement needs to be powerful yet calculated. Haican is often called on to demonstrate moves to the younger pupils.

Haican can also proudly wield the nine-section chain and perform the monkey fist. "I enjoy learning kung fu with my classmates. I also like helping the young ones," Haican said, looking at Wenxuan, the youngest kung fu pupil at the temple. Living together and helping each other have given the boys a sense of maturity and inter-dependence.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2023-01-02/Shaolin-spirit-lives-on-in-kung-fu-pupils-1ggiWpJcmVa/img/1b4b5910bb9e45709db8059d067bd229/1b4b5910bb9e45709db8059d067bd229.jpeg
Xu Haican during a performance.

The Southern Shaolin Temple in Quanzhou plans to keep the kung fu pupil program going, so more and more young people can have a taste of this traditional Chinese defense form. As for Haican, he wishes that one day he can be as good as his teacher Licheng. There's a short news vid behind the link.