Reality Bites

[DelicateSound]

Let's face it, we're all Martial Artists [except Ralek].
A lot of us eat, sleep, and even dream Martial Arts. We imagine ourselves one day opening our own dojo, right next to the beach on some tropical island, practicing forms at sunset.

Similarly, we often imagine our next fight as a romantic good Vs evil brawl, a Matrix-style choreographed battle, where we defeat the guy using our favourite move. For a WC guy its a straight blast followed by a round kick to the temple, that drops him like a log. A Jujitsu man pictures himself finishing it with a drop-knee Shoulder throw that shakes the ground.

I can't be the only one who thinks like this :D we've all seen Romeo Must Die, we've all played Tekken.

The question is: "Are we kidding ourselves". I was reading Ryu's post about fight experiences, and none of them there would fit the above descriptions. None of my own personal experiences would either. Has the media had a bad influence on MA's. A lot of students expect to be Bruce Lee, but give up when the work gets too hard.

What do you guys all think?

[BTW - I'm deadly serious here. Just be glad I'm not posting about Frosted Mini Wheats again. No trolling please, and no ridicule] :D

[jon]

I think the sad truth is the same reason most good martial artists dont like to fight. They have seen the result!
Seriously i cant handle watching anyone get badly beaten or have limbs broken. Let alone watch someone die from hand to hand combat.
Movies make things look like they dont hurt. People take rediculous hits and keep coming back for more and more.
A few good hard hits is all most people can take.
A single false move losses the game so to speak.
I think if movies showed fighting for what it was we would proberly stop looking forward to the fight scences in movies.
Heck i dont even like watching the UFC for that reason, its just brutality.

[dezhen2001]

too true guys!

All of my experience leads me to believe that fights are d a m n scary things, and you just fight for survival, nothing more. No chance to do any flashy moves - just try and survive, that's it! Try not to get busted up bad, but even if that does happen, at least ur alive.

I have seen many guys learn defence against a knife etc. and they really think after practising in class a few times they could do it in real life! If someone tries to mug you with a knife (like what happened recently), u give them your wallet and hope they still don't beat the crap out of u. I know i'm not gonna try anything!

Still, i like watching movies, cause they look cool! The intricacy involved in making action sequences really amazes me, everyone involved must be really skilled. Have u noticed that everyting has gone Wushu recently? i wish i could fight like that! :p

david

[guohuen]

It's getting scary again! Everyone is agreeing! This thread needs a contrarian or someone with a yang liver condition to respond quickly!

[Ryu]

This is a good thread, and one that can be really interesting. I will post, but I may have to come back to it because I'm going to have one of my famous "Ryu Groupie trips" with Japanese girls today! :D This time to a mall. :D (Is it bad to like your life? :( things can change so sudddenly... I digress)

Anyway, the thread.

There is a fine line between movie fighting and reality. This is obvious. Many actually believe martial arts give them the power to do such things, and then they get disappointed when in real life it doesn't happen. A lot of people actually went through that with the first UFCs. They were untrained people watching obviously, but they wanted to see the flying kicks and jump spin kicks, etc.
Does it hurt the martial arts? Only if you buy into it I suppose. I don't. But being a writer, I know the wonderful value that "story" has over our lives. "Story" has been a human creation since time began, and it has been one that is arguably the most powerful within us. It represents the "essence" of humanity at times. It can make us cry, laugh, feel anger, inspiration to accomplish our dreams, etc. Everyone knows that a good story can inspire for life. That is why I get so angry at Hollywood for making trashy films, degenerate story lines, etc. Because to me it was NOT simply entertainment (one should ask why some things entertain them anyway..where's your mindset at?) What I watch is a 'story' and sometimes I feel the marketing and money changers of Hollywood can truly exploit and insult what a true story can do. Remember that stories are very powerful. I'm getting off track.
People sometimes need fantasy in their lives in order to take a break from reality. There's nothing wrong with that. However, when it gets into your head in such a way that you cannot seperate them it can become very dangerous. The reality of fighting is a prime example.
While I would like to make a "film" that has REALISTIC fighting in it (while still being exciting), I will leave that for now, and talk about something else.
Reality can indeed be the "good versus evil" that you are talking about. It just needs to be seen in totality for what it is.
Let me give an example. Cops fight and apprehend dangerous criminals all the time. They are forced to fight people (sometimes hand to hand) in order to protect the lives of someone else. Now the actual physical fight may not be "Jacky Chan" but the result is indeed "fantasy". He saves someone from the harm of someone else, and takes the "viliian" into custody. The concept of fantasy is there, but one can only achieve its good results from realistic application. And sometimes (unlike the movies, but LIKE a good story) The bad guys sometimes will win, and tragedy sets in. The "saga" has to continue.

The "fantasy" aspect of our lives is in how we live and feel about our own way of living. Reality will always be reality. If we get into a fight it will be realistic. There will be violence, fear, and uncertainty. Always. Fantasy then comes to us through our realistic approach to these things.
Another example. One a bit touched with 'fantasy' aspects so you can see what I'm talking about. :)

You are a trained martial artist, but have never tested your stuff, and expect yourself to fight like Jacky Chan to outnumber hordes of bad guys that ever dare get into your way. On your way to a girlfriend's house, you see something wrong. Her door is open, and upon getting closer, you notice a "disturbed" man being very hostile and forward to her inside. He will not let her leave, and the situation is fast becoming almost like a hostage situation. Without thinking you bust like lighting into her home thinking that you will take on the man by yourself. He turns out to be 260 pounds, and tall. Now you have scared him, and he fights to not "beat you" but "kill you." Your kicks are more flash than anything else, and bounce off him. You strike him, but you feel like you are in a slow motion nightmare since you have never experienced the adrenaline dump before...your vision of fighting like Bruce dies as he strikes you again and again, and knocks you to the floor, where he gets on top of you and starts banging fists into your face. You don't know what will happen to your friend. Your senses shut down, and everything goes black... you pray she'll be okay.

In this "example" the fantasy of martial arts was smacked in the face with ugly reality. It is tragic, unjust, and makes us angry.
Real fantasy can't exist can it?

Well here's the same example.

While seeing the man holding your friend inside her home, you quickly asses the situation seeing if there is any neighbors around where you can call the police. None are there, but you do possess a cell phone. You dial and they are on their way.
Not wanting any harm to come to your friend you approach the house, only this time you do not buy into movie stunts, and have been training in realistic terms all your life. You've sparred countless times, been trained in firearms, chemical agents, and strategic tactics. Upon entering, you get the man's attention away from the girl in a confident yet none threatening manner. (not trying to rile him up) He is "disturbed" and takes your presence as a threat anyway. he begins to come for you.
You hold your hands up, trying to diffuse the situation, but he comes for you! Ducking under his punch you slam him into a wall, knee him in the groin then break away picking up a fireplace poker in the corner as an equalizer. Having been trained in realistic weapon training, you use the poker effectively as an equalizer to down him. You are hurt, bleeding, and the fight was the ugliest thing imaginable. There was no flash, no heroic kicks. Only a man trying anything to survive and protect his loved one. From his realitic training, he was able to do just that. The police come, and things go from there. The friend is safe, even though she could not see any "martial art" from you at all, only violence.
It doesn't matter to her, because your actions (be them realistic and violent) saved her from God knows what.

If you carry a gun the example may take a different turn. You may not fight at all. Maybe you order him on his stomach, and restrain him until the police come. Is this "Bruce Lee?" of course not....but you win. Your friend is safe.
You've protected someone just like the "movie heroes"

See what I'm getting at? Reality and Fantasy are dangerous if you don't know what they really mean. One can achieve fantastic things through realistic application in their lives. Not just with fighting, but with anything in life.
The one rule about reality though, is that there is never any guarantees that the good will prevail. But we still try anyway. That's what true human bravery is in my opinion.

Okay, I'm going out. :D
See ya all later

Ryu

[Former castleva]

Those movies are mostly crap.
They can put many negative things to your head.How many times have they displayed any philosophy?
Even the greatest kung-fu master on the world could not take out an army of attackers with his bare hands:o
Then kids start thinking that martial arts are about that.

[DelicateSound]

You must be a writer - so much crap :D [just kiddin']

I agree that fantasy is a big part of humanity [don;t start me talking about Uma Thurman again!] and that MA films have a big part in life. I also agree with all of you that violence in reality is harsh and sickening. I can watch UFC [consenting], but I draw the line at that.

My real point was: "Do Martial Artists [esp. newbies] confuse the two things, and should our training promote the reality side of things. After all, the Martial Arts are for defense, not dancing :)

Ryu - You have groupies? I call mine my b!tches! :D

[Ryu]

in answer to both questions..... yes :D

[Steven T. Richards]

Been there and done it eh John.
Your real experince shows...

Cheers,

Steve.

[Steven T. Richards]

Life-Span Development is just that - a longitudinal and ontogenetic process.

Fundamentally we are all driven by that developmental drive - based on instinct - and reflected in our current conscious grasp of what things really are.

When experience (of a direct kind) is lacking, fanatsy fills the vaccum, its the only way to model the unknown. In young people - the kind typically 'wasted' in war (the struggle on an organised scale for resources, physical, territorial, social and sexual) the biological imperitives of instinct help to shape the form that fantasy takes. Its one of the prices we pay for having a 'psychology'.

With increased age (and hopefully survival) everything takes on an appropriately different perspective.

This is usually referred to as 'maturity' of one kind or another.
One kind of maturity is 'wiseing up' to not getting wasted for the sake of unconscious and unreflective biological drives.

Another is accepting that human development happens at its own rate - not always uniformally, but at a steady enough rate nevertheless. Puer's can't be senex's nor should they be - prematurely.

[DelicateSound]

Steve - for a scouser, you know too much for your own good!! Analytical Psychotherapists these days..... :rolleyes:

Too much for my simple brain actually. :D

I can't really comment on the development iof maturity with age [at 17 that would make me a pretty big hypocrit], but I understand what you say about fantasy "filling the void where experience is lacking". I suppose that in later life those who have accomplished less still have the greatest tendancy towards the make-believe. I assume in this sense it's all about peoples desires, and fulfilling them.

In the context of reality fighting, after every fight I've been in [not too many, but enough] I've been more aware of the realities of combat, in contrast to the image projected by the media. Those who have never experienced the brutality of street combat often feel disillusioned when they encounter it. I know after my first fight I did.

[Steven T. Richards]

Hi Delicate,

Every 'Season' in life is appropriate unto itself.... even for us Scoucers.

[DelicateSound]

For us Stokies, every season in life revolves around the humble Oatcake. :D

BTW: You obviously know loads about this. One problem:


a longitudinal and ontogenetic process

[SOUND EFFECTS] *Whoosh*

That's the sound of that going right over my head. For the first time ever in my time one here - I'm reaching for the dictionary :D Glad to see someone's keeping my A-level English skills on their toes.

[DelicateSound]

ontology noun
Branch of metaphysics concerned with the nature of being.

ontological adjective
ontologically adverb
ontologist noun

That explains it then :) I can pretty much work out ontogenetics from there!!

[Steven T. Richards]

Hi Delicate,

Strictly speaking, ontogenesis in this context means the process of 'becoming' - a maturational factor - psychologically - which is why it takes time (longitudinal).

In evolutionary psychology, the ontogenetic psyche is that aspect of the whole psychological system that 'develops' thru lifespan learning and maturation - our 'personal psyche' if you will.
The 'phylogenetic psyche' is the evolutionary template out from which we develop - ontogenetically:)

BTW 'Psychology' 'Psyche' (Soul) 'Logos' (Reasoning) ergo 'The Reasoning Of The Soul'.

Steve.

Beware of educated Scoucers, they can be VERY dangerous;)

[Merryprankster]

which is why it takes time (longitudinal).

Hence the reason you can't figure out exactly where you are at without an (lat and Long) without an accurate timepiece :)

Useless trivia..hee-hee!

[DelicateSound]

Oh man, am I glad I never took psychology!! You can see why Dr.Frasier Crane is so grumpy, having to learn all this terminology [or is he a psychiatrist?]

I get what you mean though - just about.

And yes, educated scousers [what are the odds!] are VERY dangerous. :D


phylogenetic psyche

I think some people on this board may be missing one of these. :) Oh Ralek.......

[Jeff Liboiron]

I don't know if anybody has said this yet, but I"m the only MA out of all my friends, and they think fights go down like in the movies.

**** those movies. I mean i love em and all, but they make the non MA think that that's how real fights look.

[DelicateSound]

I am the only MA out of all my mates [inc. my whole year at college]

They are pretty ignorant of it. Their responces range from:


Come on then - run up that wall like Bruce Lee

to:


Hoooaaaarrrr - Mr.Chinaman.

to just about every Kung-Fu film quote available. I was called "Neo" for 7 weeks straight after The Matrix came out.

They have no idea really.

[old jong]

There is nothing beautifull or "romantic" about fighting. It is brutal and ugly and can waste the lifes of both winner and loser.
All styles of martial arts (even the grappling arts) like to entertain the idea that they possess the "right" techniques for all occasions!...In fact ,you begin to be in serious danger the second you think you are too good to lose.
Anything can go bad anytimes!

[Merryprankster]

Honestly, I don't hink anybody here thinks that fights are beautiful and pretty. Ugly and Brutish :)

[DelicateSound]

Yep. Arrogance is the cause of many a downfall.

[Ryu]

But confidence does tend to help you in the romance department. :D
Yesterday I got a phone number and a movie date for next week. :D


Ryu

[DelicateSound]

Man the girls near you must be easy......

Uh, I mean, you must be a great-looking guy :D

[Ryu]

LOL! :D

Stop ruining my fun! :D

Ryu

[Qi dup]

Great thread everyone! I think this is deffinatly one of the most interesting threads I have read since i've been on KFO. Good Work DS!

Ryu, I really liked what you said in your first post, that was perfect. Good luck with your writting, I'd say your very good at it.

I really like a lot of martial arts movies. I think a lot of my friends like them even more. I keep most of my training to myself just because when I tell people that I'm very interested In martial arts they really take it the wrong way. Some people take it that i can't fight at all which isn't true and some people take it that I fight like jet li which also is very far from the truth. When I watch just regular old movies with my friend and there is a fight scene I'll sometimes analize it and tell them how i would have done it in one way or another, just playng around with the idea. Now, they think I'm this crazy eye jab throwin' knee cap kickin' fighting machine. I am constantly reminding myself that actually getting into a fight is the last thing I want to do. Last night we were all out at a snowboard comp. and it looked like a few people might get into a fight . My friends all gathered around and started to get excited almost. At first I looked around at the people involved and got this little rush and thought for a second 'Man, I could take these guys.' But then I stoped myself because if there's one thing I think a lot of people of thise forum have been able to say is that fights are brutal, un controled, and you never know what is going to happen. Anyone of those guys last night could have had a knife or a gun, or been a championship boxer. I'm not bruce Lee, and I can not take on ten guys at once, let alone one guy.

Hopefully i didn't get to far off the subject. I think there have been some really great responses on this thread, keep it up! There are really a lot of smart people here. A lot of the things people have said really helps me to look at things from a more realistic perspective.

[DelicateSound]

Glad you liked the thread.

I sometimes get comments like that. Some people laugh at me, asking why I waste the time on it. I throw the whole self-defence, fitness, confidence, argument and they say I should just do a sport.

I keep reminding myself that one day I will get into a life-threatening situation, and that it will help me. I got into a kind of situation on NYE [see Mr.Nemo's thread], and without my training I would of reacted very differently, and probably backed down.

[Reappah-X]

There's alot of reasons for training, be it fitness, sport, fun or self defence...hell it can be all those things.

But when it comes to the self defence aspect, the training is all about trying to get your body to react a certain way and make that stuff you're training become instinct....which is tough as most fights i've been involved in and seen...well, they're typically messy affairs : ) that dont involve much thinkin'

Most people will never have to worry about those types of problems anyways, it isnt often that people get into a fight on the streets, especially once you're out of highschool....

that is unless you're just a trouble maker : )

Reap

[DelicateSound]

I suppose. I love every aspect of training though.

Guess some folks just don't get it.