spiraling energy . .. i think im getting the hang of it.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im pretty sure that i have always understood the concept of spiraling energy, but havent tried real hard to put it into practice until recently. i have always thought that it was mixing the twisting and sinking (or rising) energy to create short explosive power.

i have been trying to keep this concept in mind with every strike i throw and i think it's starting to click. sometimes when i hit a bag or person, the drive through kinda feels like im starting to drive a corkscrew into a cork. that's not exactly it, but it's kinda hard to describe being new to it. i also feel the energy flow a little differantly, but my ability to feel energy flow at all is kinda limited yet.

i wont see sifu until tuesday, and i have a feeling he'll tell me to not worry about it until i really master sinking energy, so i was wondering if anyone had any tips for someone just starting to apply spirialing force.

another question i have is about the body's tendency to lean over while moving around. i notice that the more i keep my back straight the more fluent, balanced, and natural i move, however i always have to catch myself from wanting to lean over . .. even just slightly. at first i thought this was just my body trying to make things easier on my legs, but after nearly 2 years of grueling horse stance training and other exercises i can hold a medium horse stance forever. even if my legs are extremely sore from working out i have no problem holding a horse stance for extended periods of time (oddly enough sometimes having sore legs makes it easier). why does the body want to do that? is it trying to curl up to protect your vital organs? i see other students at my level doing the same thing so i dont figure its just me.

[jon]

Im not at the level to be striking with it yet but i do understand the concept of it. Its just pure science and not to difficault to come to grips with.
I personaly use it when i get locked up in sparring and cant make headway. Like when both of your forearms meet, you can spin them off whilst still driving in. Its also very usefull if your ever grabbed with a claw on your arms. Its one of the few thing ive found that can shake a strong grip, you will still take a little damage but it works well if you cant get a crane beak or phenix fist there in time.
Ive found its best use is in attacking defence, as in when your trying to drive it but at the same time defelct whats coming.
This must sound really confusing but i think im proberly somewhere around where you are, having an idea of the concept but striving to find ways to use it and understand it.
Maybe we will both learn something from this thread.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

if we are thinking of the same thing when you talk about your forearms being togeather we have a horse movement like that. forearms togeather, thumbs up, and it sinks into the strike. it's very short range and i'm guessing the arm positioning mimicks the back legs of a horse. i guess as this was shown to me by a more advanced student outside of class very briefly.

i can see how you could apply the spiraling force to get some extra power out of the movement for a freash start in sparring.

[Sam Wiley]

My advice is for you to simply remain vertical. You yourself have noticed that it comes easier with a straight spine. I practice one form with several sweeps in it, and I almost fall over if I lean while doing them. If I keep my back straight, and drop into Snake Creeps Down with my back straight, then it all comes out okay. If I lean I fall forward. Not leaning is the hard part, though.

[EARTH DRAGON]

what you are speaking of is called Zhuan Jing (Spiral Power)
Because of this screwing motion, this type of power transfer is sometimes referred to as screwing power. however the use and understanding of it is a little more diffacult its energy is transfomed throught waist but taken from the feet. think of it as comming from the ground, circling around the waist and then exploding out from the hand. Your body must folllow the laws of kinetic energy and must be relaxed and move percisley through the body in a upward whipping action much like that of a bull whip. When done correctly your fist will make a crack sound this is good, keep practicing until your opponent cannot see your hand move but only hears the sound, this is better.

[diego]

.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i actually do my best to keep straight (so the energy can flow freely like sifu says) but my question is why is there such a natural tendency to lean at least a little bit?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

diego . ..

i figure i should occasionally try to contribute something half decent for all my nautious trolling.

[diego]

:cool: :p

[Sam Wiley]

GDA,
I'm not sure why that tendency is there. I mean, I know I should remain straight, and yet I try and lean sometimes. Possibly, it's because I am thinking about the application when I do the move in my case. For the move I have trouble with, you grab with both hands around the back of the guy's head, spin on your front heel as you pull him down, sweeping your rear foot around as if you are doing a leg sweep, and slam his face into your standing leg's knee. I'm probably just focusing too much on the application. It's a sort of spinning lever action. Anyway, if that's what the problem, then it's not a natural tendency at all. That also means it's correctable.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"think of it as comming from the ground, circling around the waist and then exploding out from the hand. Your body must folllow the laws of kinetic energy and must be relaxed and move percisley through the body in a upward whipping action much like that of a bull whip. "

ok cool.

anyone else have anything to add?

[KC Elbows]

No more to add on spiraling power, I'm probably at about the same level of understanding on it as you are.

However, the lean over thing is something I do as well. I do it exclusively in sparring, and I usually take it as sign that my mind is cluttered. I seem to do it to shrink my targets, but as we all know, it doesn't work very well. I was going at it with a friend while sparring with shinai on Saturday, and I kept catching myself doing it.

I consider it the same phenomenon as letting your arms drop while fighting. Not enough presence of mind, I guess.

[DelicateSound]

They say you have do do a move 3000 times for it to become instinctive [muscle memory], and I guess you just spar less than you punch, so it takes longer to become natural.

Just my idea!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i doubt it would become instinctive if you just sat and did it 3000 times right in a row though.

maybe i'll try it and see.

[shaolinboxer]

A drill I found very useful that is related to "spiraling energy" is to stand infront of a target, be it a bag or a partner with you arms at your sides, elbows close to the hips. Face your palms toward the target (thile they are still hanging). Now, throw punches (or palm strikes) from this postion, leading with the hips. Focus on relaxation in the arm and shoulder, and on upright posture. Just *whip* it out and turn your fist over (to creat the tip of the sprial).

Besides being a good drill, for loosening the shoulders, being able to strike from an appearently neutral postion is very useful. You will find your strikes will be much less telegraphic (because you hide your intent through relaxation).

When sparring, be concious of the neutral postion if anything. It is from the neutral state of body and mind that all technique can manefest.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Shaolinboxer, if I may, I would just like to add that you should start the movment in the feet, not leading with the hips as you stated , for you are then using only half of your body. Agin the movement comes from the ground(feet) and generated through the hips!

delicate sound, you reffered to 3000 times for muscle memory, I personally would have to say the it would take much more, if you think about it , you do 3000 punches in a single warmup for class , that would not really mean that you have obtained muscle memory yet.
There are 3 levels in which the body learns(memory), cerebrell, musculer, cellular. it becomes instinct when you reach the level of your cells memory. That is what I call mastery.It is extrmely diffacult to reach that level with 1 technique much less an entire system. but thats next week