when does "healthy doubts" become dangerous to you (and your opponents?)

[Ryu]

The Hockey Dad ground and pound thing has scared me somewhat. Not that someone will do it to me (actually had someone do it to me once before I knew any grappling) but that I will do it to someone and hurt them MUCH worse than I had wanted to...or was expecting to.

I have always had "doubts" about myself when it came to martial arts. I suppose my childhood days were very awkward, kinda ****y, and I somewhat lived in a fantasy world about my abilities. I wanted them bad, but didn't train for them. Now things are completely different in my life. I train hard, I have decend sized muscles, and I am very good with women. Physically I guess I've "gotten" what I wanted when I was that young awkward kid. However I still doubt myself, and constantly "spar" with myself to fight them down. The weird thing is this. It's not like I don't work hard.... I trained in BJJ for at least 2 years with some guys when I got out of high school, then spent a year in a Machado school where I sparred almost everyday with people kicking my butt left and right.....until I started being able to kick their butts a little bit too! :D Then I spent went back to my judo training, and reached brown belt level (I'm gonna continue that too) I've rolled with every conceivable sized person. Rolled with guys who couldn't touch me at all to guys who just destroyed me on the ground. I've had challenge matches with different styles, kung fu, muay thai, boxing, streetfighting, and I've won every single one. But I always doubt myself. Obviously if you doubt yourself because you don't "test" yourself it's your subconscious trying to let you know maybe...but what about if you do test yourself? I don't want to be a cage fighter...and I don't want to train like one either... (6 hours a day, 7 days a week of just fighting and bleeding) But I do train pretty **** hard.
My last friendly challenge match with a friend of mine who boxed and had many streetfights ended up with me as the winner (I was never in any trouble) left me with a disappointment because I allowed him to get a headlock/choke on me when I mounted him. I broke out of it, and submitted him, but in my head I was more focused on the fact that he had me in a headlock than I was about my armlock that made him tap!! :eek: Is that just perfectionism?? I suppose it's good because it makes you think about how you can always improve yourself...but this leads me into my point. I think I have too much of these "healthy doubts" and they are becoming unhealthy...I'm fighting them. I want only the strongest, most effective ways of fighting...and I train boxing, clinching, throwing, grappling, and ground and pound.
My fear is this.... I'm not sure if I even know how strong or not I am anymore... I picture my opponent as a killer, but how do I really know? How do I know that if I ground and pound someone bigger than me, that I won't kill him?? I almost expect that he wouldn't be phased, and just escape, and get back to his feet, ready to kill me......so I train it hard to put power in it...damaging power, overkill..... But what if the guy can't escape, and I pummel someone and they die? It's obviously real. It obviously has happened :(
I don't do that to people who aren't a threat. I got into a fight at work with a smaller guy than myself, and all I did was pin him down on the ground, mount, and put my fist back like I was going to punch. And he stopped. And I stopped too. Obviously I wouldn't do it to someone I felt wasn't able to hurt me...but what about the people I DO feel can hurt me? What if they turn out to be "weaker" than I thought?
I don't know...I know I can control too, and I have other techniques at my disposal. But sometimes I just wonder. How much of these "little doubts" help, and how much can put you in danger of "not knowing your own strength?"

What do you think?

Ryu

[DelicateSound]

Hey I think you're looking into this too much Ryu, you're a decent guy with a good set af morals - don't give yourself a hard time.

All your fights'll be self-defence, and you have the right to learn how to defend yourself. Train to fight the 6'6 brick sh!thouse whose up on PCP and feels no pain. If you get someone weaker, know when to stop.

These doubts are healthy - they show that you are humane, and care about others - not a ruthless killing machine. I get 'em too, I know I'm well trained and I worry I'll do something stupid like choke someone to death. My "fight" at New Year made me think a lot about it, but I know deep down I'm a pacifist.

[jon]

Ive been though the same thing your going though and ill give you the same peice of advice i was given.

Do you trust your instructors?
Do you trust your own morals?
Do you trust that your in control of yourself?

If the answer is yes to these questions then there is no more need to worry.

If you trust your instructor then trust he has good judgement of charactor and has given you your skills for good reason.
If you trust your morals then know you will do nothing that doesnt 'have' to be done.
If your trust your own control then you must also trust your own instincts.

If you were not a good person and were not worthy of the skills you posses then you would likely not have them. Trust in yourself and trust in your own moral. Someone else has trusted you enough to TEACH you to kill, imagine them thinking this though. Would they have come to such a conclusion lightly?

As for your fear of hurting others or adversly not being powerfull enough ive been though this to. In many ways i still am its a constant battle.
I honestly think the trick is to accept that we all only live to die. Men all die once but they should die with meaning, train for your rightious self not for your inner demon. The only way to defeat that is to accept it doesnt exist.
Well that sounded a lot more mystical than i meant it to but what the heck:D
Good luck Ryu i never found this easy, i still dont.

[shaolinboxer]

The problem we commonly refer to as "not knowing our own strength" has shaped my training over the last year and a half or so.

It should be possible to train the body and mind to a state of control that allows for dangerous, reflexive, intuitive technique and appropriate self control.

However, there are alwasys special cases....for example, I have a friend who was a boxer when he was younger. A certain kid used to pick on his all of the time, and finally he got fed up and hauled off a fist into this nose. As it turns out, the kid had a disease that prevented his blood from clotting, and he nearly died from the blow.

Therefore, restraint, presence of mind, and absence of body should be studied and nurtured.

Self defense includes defending against yourself.

[No_Know]

Short version: last line.

Ryu, youare scared. You think that you are weak. you think that others might be more capable than you. You have the mentality of I'm no godd and so you lash out like the stereotypical girl(cat) fight (you probablly look more stylish but the closemy eyes open the flood gates don't look 'til i'm too tired or dead or keep going until the smoke clears, is Panic.

For all your training, you don't have Skill. You don't trust what you know to work, hence the panic mode, your inadequacy factor.

You have to evaluate with every second (few seconds). did you hurt him, how badly, did you get hurt attacking him/her, Intensity up or down, intimidate or injure...every second~ review this kind of a list. When it's over and you realized you acted out of a temorary emotion, Anger, Fear, Sorrow, Joy, and you get centered, the emotion fades or changes, you will begin tofeel bad about acting rashly. One way to avoid the regret of living at the expense of a not guilty is to come up with a check list to evaluate where the fight is going and where you'd like to take it and whether you can make that happen and if you need to get out of this and go.~

Mostly you're scared. Don't fight from Fear.

[DelicateSound]

Originally posted by shaolinboxer
Self defense includes defending against yourself.

Nicely put. That is so very, very true.

[Ray Pina]

You're a good man, and sound like a great martial artists.

I am the same way, all I see are my weakness. I may beat someone, but right away I start reviewing after the fight. What else could I have done to make it quicker. What could have the other guy done, I usually see soemthing they could have done, but didn't. How do I stop that?

I consider that the right way to train. I do not picture my "encounter" to be one with the average joe, it wopn't happen, I'll walk away, or he'll be dumb, and he'll get a good spanking. No need to really hurt this type, they are easily controlled, and just give them a bit of street justice, a good shot or two. That's my aproach to a roudy obnoxious drunk with beer mucles who goes to far with a lady friend or something ... or puts his hands on me.

As for the other, that's the one I'm training for, the crack head, PCP, drueling from the mouth freak, with a knife. I just invision severely hurting, breaking some part of him, if there really is a knife, perjaps killing. I hope not. Hope it never happens or comes to that.

Don't think about it. I can tell you have a good heart. We are similiar in many ways, I was always a little heavy as a kid. That's not what drove me to train, because I began when I was 4, before the chubby stage, and it was always there. I always trained to beat the guy ahead of me. When I was a purple belt, I had to beat all the brown belts, even a black belt. When I was brown of black, I didn't want to loose to anyone in the dojo, no matter age or size. That is the correct attitude.

Now, I can't really fight with my brothers and sisters. We are adults, grown men with skill. We train now for control. When you control your opponant, their is no danger.

You're fine. Don't think so critically. Be natural. I know you you know.

I wish you were local, you're exactly the type I like to train with, a winner.

OK, enough flattery. Later.

[Ryu]

Thanks for the great posts guys.

ShaolinBoxer, that quote I agree was great. I usually get annoyed at "one quote wonders" but that really put some thinking into my head with just a few words. You're absolutely right. :)

no_know, actually you got me thinking too. I am scared to lose a fight when it really counts. I think that's what makes me train hard. It's a strange battle because I really don't like fighting, but train it hard and realistically. But you made me realize something else too... I really do have skill. All the real fights and challenges I've been in since grappling I've ended with position, and submission. Almost the way I see police apprehend people. I've never once had to really headbutt someone, etc. But since I have those skills too, I do have quite a bit I can rely on. And I suppose awareness of myself is the best mentality to have. A Buddhist would call it the correct "mindfulness". You're right in "not fighting fear" to a certain degree...

Evolution Fist,
Thanks for the post. I guess knowing that other martial artists do indeed feel the same way and go through the same inner battles makes me feel like I'm not the only one, therefore, I'm on the same path others are on.

Take care,
and thanks again. I guess the inner battles are the best ones anyway. :D

Ryu

[joedoe]

Remember you are only human, and as such are subject not only to the imperfections of the human condition, but also to the randomness that is life. No matter how much you train, no matter how prepared you are, things can go wrong.

The blow that a small man may take may fell a giant just out of sheer luck. Sometimes things happen - you cannot control everything.

Don't worry yourself too much over it. Keep doing what you are doing and trust that your hard word and diligence will keep you out of trouble :)

[SevenStar]

The journey is never done, is it bro? I don't think you'll ever feel that you are where you want to be. As hard as you train, you know that someone out there is better, and until you can beat that person, you may doubt your abilities. Problem is, even if you do beat that person, another will come, and even that person won't be as strong as the one that you are preparing yourself for. Keep training the way that you are and believe me, you'll be okay.

[Polaris]

I'm the same way, and probably will always be unless
I attain perfection, and even then I probably wouldn't
be content. I kind of having a problem with getting
discouraged when I get beat, makes me feel down on
my ability even if they are really good, or else feeling
like I didn't win decisively enough.

[prana]

Karma :)

Things arise because karma has ripened. Take a look at how it manifested. Sometimes it is too late, and you have already reacted in a certain way, then just laff at yourself and say this is the my mind is. And slowly and surely change it to the way you would have liked to have reacted to it. Of course, Buddhist would have said, be mindful of it all the time, and that is, being aware of the situation at all times. Easier said, difficult to do. But you will find you end up with so little physically, and so much spiritually. You become ... satisfied.

I was a really screwed up kid, although I am god-danged screwed up still, I am not a tenth as screwed up as I was before.

Slowly and surely, reverse yourself, witness rebirth and take mindfulness. After a while, I think winning or losing has its pluses and minuses. It is a form of duality, but being mindful of it is excellent from all angles.

"Karmapa Kenoo", use it when in doubt !