what are people views on Bruce Lee?

[fish]

hi all, i'm new
Wwhat do you all think of Bruce, comming from a kung fu and philosophy point of view?. i know that a lot of people don't like his jeet kune do,
anyway jus curious
thanks

fish

[Paul Skrypichayko]

My view of Lee Siu Long (Bruce Lee) is that he is highly over rated. Sure he may have trained hard, but did he train "smart"? Did he know anything about internal training, did he bring anything new to martial arts? It doesn't seem like it.

Because he was the first real martial arts star in the west, he is idolized by many people.

[Tekarius]

Paul I disagree with you, you said that does he know anything about internal training, well I think his 1 inch punch explains it. I'm not too sure when you said did he trained "smart"?
just giving my opinion dude. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i have seen a picture of him breaking bricks with a phoenix eye stike, thats pretty strong internal and external training.

but i agree with paul... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Bruce Lee, internal? I dont think so...

How come he lived to such a ripe old age? How come he was burned out and in such poor health? It seems like he understood simple physical and external training, but none of the techniques you mentioned require any internal power.

[Tekarius]

But Paul do you think Bruce Lee is a good fighter and do you think he knows whats he's doing or do you think he's more show.

****....... that's hardcore. and what's this about him knowing nothing of the internal? i read a biography that had his wife linda stating that he meditated several hours a day. and i wouldn't go so far as to say he was in poor shape. look at him in "enter the dragon", which was completed just before he died. seems to be in pretty good shape to me..... his abs looked like potatoes! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Where choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence...... I prefer to use arms in defense of honor rather than remain the vile witness of dishonor"

Mohandas Gandhi

[David]

I think his meditation was more in line with "I'm the greatest I'm the greatest I'm famous Everybody loves me I'm the greatest" idea than "Aummmm, I'mm inn tunnne wiiith theeee uunniiiveeeerrrrrrrsssse" kinda thing.

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

[fish]

interesting.
personally i think he has to be one of the best martial artists ever, with execptions to some of the grandmasters etc. Has anyone read the tao of jeet kune do... i love it

fish

[denali]

There is a difference between external appearance and internal health.

Look at competition bodybuilders for example-- they appear to be in amazing physical shape, but while competing are actually in poor condition and some even kill themselves as a result of their diets and dehydration..

[Jimbo]

Have to agree with denali's post.

The appearance of being in top physical shape and physical conditioning, and just plain being in prime health, are two things that can be very different.

Bruce Lee, at least in his pre-martial arts movie years, trained very hard. But so had a lot of the experts and masters, only their stories haven't been told and retold the world over. And many of the older masters had tested their fighting resolve, armed or unarmed, in battlefield/wartime conditions.

Me? I think Bruce Lee was definitely legit as far as possessing true kung fu and other skill. IMO he was a real expert, although not necessarily a top authority on any single one of the arts he drew from. I think he was still developing as a martial artist, and was not yet a so-called "master."

As far as internal/external training, I won't comment on Bruce Lee's knowledge, but I will say that he often contradicted himself. He would openly call internal training and meditation "mystical mumbo-jumbo" then on his own emphasize meditation for himself (Dan Inosanto himself stated this). He would talk about the virtues of the man who does not seek fame, but peace within himself. But then he ended up putting the pursuit of fame above almost all else, and seemed NOT to have been a very peaceful person within himself while alive.

He also had a weird type of electrical machine he would plug himself into to exercise his muscles with shocks. I don't care who you are, this cannot be anything but bad for the nervous system, as our bodies our controlled by naturally-occurring electrical impulses from the brain. This might have worsened any possible predisposition for epilepsy, though I'm not a doctor and I can't say for certain.

Lastly, he did eat cannabis that was cooked into brownies. He felt cannabis helped him relax, but he though smoking it was bad for the health, so eating it in brownies was healthier. When I first learned of this I was shocked, because I had always thought he was a health nut.

Maybe I will **** people off with this post, but it doesn't mean any disrespect to Lee, only to point out he was human and not perfect. There are some people who actually tried to compare Bruce Lee and his influence to that of Jesus Christ, which is crazy. Besides, I think Lee would have scoffed at people trying to worship him, copy him, and hang on his every word without following their own hearts.
Jim

[Paul Skrypichayko]

I agree with David, Denali, and Jimbo. Bruce Lee's physique is phenomenal, nobody can doubt that. I don't know too much about his personality, but it does seem that he was pretty egoistic, and did not know about real meditation.

If you compare him to real masters, I don't think he can stand in their shadows, but in America, he was probably one of the top guys around.

I didn't know about his cannabis habits either. Pretty shocking, but perhaps it was for medicinal purposes since it was taken in it's natural buffered state. I'm not sure what side effects, if any, come from eating cannabis leaves. I know that you can chew a small amount of cocoa leaves to appease hunger, pain, and fatigue, with little or no side effects. Perhaps this is the same ide

[Serpent]

Cannabis is well recognised for it's medicinal purposes. There are a lot of people that will attest to this, such as terminally ill patients (cancer, AIDS, etc.) that live with constant pain and maintain that the only way to ease the pain is using cannabis. A lot of these people will make a tea out of it rather than smoking it for health reasons.

The majority of the health risk from pot is smoking and all the associated problems. Ingesting it is much less harmful and, as far as I know, there are no specifics to it's detrimental effects beyond what's known from smoking it. But remember, alcohol kills braincells (like pot does) and it wrecks your liver, which pot doesn't, yet anyone will attest to the proof that a little alcohol can actually be good for you. Most doctors will tell heart arrest patients (once they are recovered) to drink one glass of wine a day. A lot of old people maintain that "one bottle of stout a day" is the secret to longevity. It's the over use and abuse of alcohol that's bad.

The same goes for pot. If anything, it's less harmful than alcohol (if you don't smoke it) but people freak at the idea because it's illegal. There is a very valid argument for the legalisation of pot for medicinal purposes. We're all into the idea of herbs, aren't we? We all use dit da jow, right? It's just another herb.

If Bruce Lee was toking back on foot long reefers every night and sharing bucket bongs with his buddies, then you could be forgiven for your concern (although it was the 70's!) But, a little for relaxation is no bad thing. Besides, Bruce Lee first started eating a little pot because he got terrible headaches (big surpirse in his stress filled life) and he found that pot was one of the only things that helped. It was one of those headaches, combined with an allergic reaction to analgesic because of it, that eventually killed him.

Go figure - it's a shame no one managed to convince him to just chill out a bit

well even paul vunak does lots of cocain so ive been told. maybe thats why the jkd clan are so ripped and fast.

peace

[Black Jack]

Was that some type of joke statement about Paul Vunack Fierce Tiger?

Because if it was, it was not even close to funny and in very bad taster, I would just love to see you say that to his face instead of from your safe computer seat.

Ever hear of slander?

Regards

black jack,
i have heard this from many sources, and the main one was when my friend went to cebu in the phillipines for a arnis tournement, his teacher knows vunak personally.

yes i have heard of slander.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Subitai]

Am I the only one willing to admit the classic cliche? I was 5 yrs old and my mom took me along w/ my older brother and sister to see a Bruce flick and i've been a Gung Fu lover ever since.

As for the JKD concepts, I like em. They are all sound ideas. NOT anything that hadn't already existed, but sound concepts put together in a nice package that an individual can personally blossom from.

Gung Fu is hard work. If a JKD guy is working his but off at what he does then he deserves the same respect that other MA's do.

I believe that Bruces hard work and concept put together can help everybody.
However I also believe that only he was the real Pinacle of his "Style" (using the word "style" for lack of a better one)

All the JKD guys train their attributes. But I have not seen any of the big dogs INSPIRE ME w/ the same AWE and raw energy that you could see in Bruce. He was truely a diamond in the rough.

The only guys i've seen come close to his almost supernatural speed and power were a few Shaolin Monks that I had the pleasure of training w/ in 1998 at Sil Lum temple.

I'm not saying Bruce was unbeatable, but who can argue w/ me that he had his moments to inspire us all?

"O"

[Black Jack]

I know more than a few people who train with Vunack and I have met him on two occasions and you are totaly talking out of your ass.

If all you have is hearsay than you should keep it to yourself and not on a public forum. Vu is a health nut and you do not know the first thing about him.

Sounds like a little JKD/Vunack envy. Why don't you try and work as hard as him and stop trying to slander people on the faceless internet and to hurt peoples reputations...not like you could ever hurt Vu's...I highly doubt that the Navy Seals or the Polsh Army or the DEA or the FBI is calling you up on the phone to desgin close quater combat programs for them...Paul is one of the best streetfighters around and a highly skilled martial artist and JKD icon who has accomplished more than most teachers could only dream of.

Regards

[fish]

thats right, Bruce Lee obtained almost perfection with his JKD, and its only something all of us dream about. How many other martial artists do you know that are like Bruce?

fish

ive seen the vunak tapes and they are sh!t, seal team dont even use him anymore so snap out of it black jack. vunak got the a$$ , the i think that scares guy was next, and i have to admit jerry petterson is way better then vunak.

get that up ya /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[mantis108]

Hi Black Jack,

My friend, you need not be upset about this faceless and brainless master wannabe. Virtually all great masters including 2 of my Sigungs are drug addicts according to him and his secret lineage BS. Read his other posts and you see what I mean. Think of him as the brother of Word (sorry Word) would be an insult to Word. I feel sorry for those who are supposedly his students since the biggest secret of his teaching is to take drug and forget about practice. What a rip off. He's properly high while posting. So don't worry about him and his comments.


Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

stay out of it,D!CK or i'll break your f*cking legs you stupid insect.

black jack,
im sorry i called your jkd instructor a cocain addict. happy now!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Black Jack]

You have got to be kidding me? This Twink teaches martial arts?

I never stated that the Seals still use the RAT program but that at one point the program was used and crafted for the SEAL teams by Vunack on order from N.E. Huston, Commander of the U.S. Navy.

The program is used now with the San Diego DEA/Narcotics Task Force and the FBI Special Enforcement Team as well as numerous other local law enforcement agencies.

Roy Harris, V.P. of PFS has just returned last week from teaching the Polish Army and Polsih Tactical Police Units CQC JKDC combat methods.

Where are your references numbnuts?????????????

Vunack can supply a list of American and European military and civilan references that seem endless as compared to your school??

What system do you even teach...******* Fu or Jerk Off Chuan?

Regards

hep thats right i do jkd (jerk off chaun). jkd today is not what bruce lee put together. vunak should call it wing chun,silat,arnis vunak style. they totally destroyed bruce lee, made a goose out of him and his jkd.i have no respect for jkd people the are living off a name and a movie star. thats all folks!!

go and toss off else where on your jkd thread BLACK JACK. PLAY YOUR BONGO DRUMS LIKE VUNAK, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[Robinhood]

hep thats right i do jkd (jerk off chaun). jkd today is not what bruce lee put together. vunak should call it wing chun,silat,arnis vunak style. they totally destroyed bruce lee, made a goose out of him and his jkd.i have no respect for jkd people the are living off a name and a movie star. thats all folks!!

go and toss off else where on your jkd thread BLACK JACK. PLAY YOUR BONGO DRUMS LIKE VUNAK, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


This thread is pretty good,



Cheers

[GlennR]

This thread is pretty good,



Cheers

It was bad 12 years ago and its worse now

[Robinhood]

It was bad 12 years ago and its worse now

What is so bad about it?

Looks like pretty accurate account to me.



Cheers

[jo]

Best martial arts actor of all time.

- jo

[Lee Chiang Po]

Bruce was an actor and nothing else. His jkd is not really much more than flash. He did a great deal of movie gung fu, and that is what it was. He was about making money, and he glorified himself and his gung fu.
He used tense units to work out. He didn't want to spend valuable time doing physical training, so he would attach the tense units to his abdomen and his pecs and let them do the work for him while he did other things. I call that smart training.

[TopCrusader]

Bruce was an actor and nothing else. His jkd is not really much more than flash. He did a great deal of movie gung fu, and that is what it was. He was about making money, and he glorified himself and his gung fu.
He used tense units to work out. He didn't want to spend valuable time doing physical training, so he would attach the tense units to his abdomen and his pecs and let them do the work for him while he did other things. I call that smart training.

Not an accurate description or reasoning for Bruce's use of a trans-cutaneous electrical nerve stimulation unit. Although the chuckle from "tense units" made reading your post worth it.

[SteveLau]

When I look at his views of MA before he was 25, there are some that I do not agree to. The reasons are that he did not understand some of the styles fully including Wing Chun. He did admit that he had not mastered the style yet. Understood that he had moved to U.S.A. before he completed his Wing Chun training. It is human nature to make mistake even one knows the mistake well. For example, forever looking for new ways to improve his MA and physical condition is going to extreme. IMHO, a person should have achieved his full potential in MA after 15 years of regular training. After that, maintaining his skill level will be the more important priority (because of the aging effect).




Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[mickey]

Greetings,

Views on Bruce Lee: Hmmmm,

Well, with only one movie scene, he was responsible for the appearance of Chinese spare ribs on the menus of Chinese restaurants all over the world (especially where Black people lived) and responsible for the shift from Chinese "Eat In" restaurants to "Take Out Only" in Black neighborhoods. :)


mickey

[taai gihk yahn]

He was an actor who unapologetically lifted and used concepts wholesale from Chinese philosophy w/out attribution, passing it off as if he was this bottomless font of ancient hoary wisdom (e.g. - his whole "be like water, my friend" interview); I mean, hey, whatever, he had mouths to feed so he gave people what they wanted...

[TenTigers]

He was an actor who unapologetically lifted and used concepts wholesale from Chinese philosophy w/out attribution, passing it off as if he was this bottomless font of ancient hoary wisdom (e.g. - his whole "be like water, my friend" interview); I mean, hey, whatever, he had mouths to feed so he gave people what they wanted...
I believe he did such because he believed in them, rather than simply wrapping his art in Chinese trappings giftwrap.

[bawang]

when i read more about him i think he was a young chinese man living at a time where chinese people werent welcome in america, and wanted to prove himself and change the public perception, showing chienese people as fighters and warriors.

but in the end he failed because wing chun.

[taai gihk yahn]

I believe he did such because he believed in them, rather than simply wrapping his art in Chinese trappings giftwrap.

I'm sure he believed in them - I just think he didn't disabuse people of the perception that he was the one coming up with them...

[Hungfutkune]

Wait, Bruce Lee is dead??
Next you're going to tell me the Beatles broke up :(

[lance]

Am I the only one willing to admit the classic cliche? I was 5 yrs old and my mom took me along w/ my older brother and sister to see a Bruce flick and i've been a Gung Fu lover ever since.

As for the JKD concepts, I like em. They are all sound ideas. NOT anything that hadn't already existed, but sound concepts put together in a nice package that an individual can personally blossom from.

Gung Fu is hard work. If a JKD guy is working his but off at what he does then he deserves the same respect that other MA's do.

I believe that Bruces hard work and concept put together can help everybody.
However I also believe that only he was the real Pinacle of his "Style" (using the word "style" for lack of a better one)

All the JKD guys train their attributes. But I have not seen any of the big dogs INSPIRE ME w/ the same AWE and raw energy that you could see in Bruce. He was truely a diamond in the rough.

The only guys i've seen come close to his almost supernatural speed and power were a few Shaolin Monks that I had the pleasure of training w/ in 1998 at Sil Lum temple.

I'm not saying Bruce was unbeatable, but who can argue w/ me that he had his moments to inspire us all?

"O" O , I agree with you too , I mean theres' no question about it he was the greatest martial artist who ever lived . Ofcoarse like you mentioned O you trained with a few shaolin monks who came close to bruces' abilities , but can never be better than bruce , that ' s the way I see too . I ' ve seen his movies many times and documentry DVDs on bruce many times , he was the greatest . Although he ' s already dead , he still inspired people anyway .

[David Jamieson]

He was an actor who unapologetically lifted and used concepts wholesale from Chinese philosophy w/out attribution, passing it off as if he was this bottomless font of ancient hoary wisdom (e.g. - his whole "be like water, my friend" interview); I mean, hey, whatever, he had mouths to feed so he gave people what they wanted...

In all fairness, he happened to be in a time and place when our general culture was eating and drinking at the table of hegemony. Even today you see guys in western culture who identify with several cultures other than their own.

Bruce assisted in forwarding those ideas that were not in the mainstream consciousness at the time.

You, and others like you went deeper, found out more and even sourced some of what Bruce was talking about and found that the font of wisdom was elsewhere.

Well, that's pretty much true of all of us to some extent.

No point in being bitter in hindsight. :) At least he put some stuff on the table for those who chose to, to dig deeper if they cared to.

It's much like Tony Robbins or Wayne Dyer or any number of other Oprah celebs. They draw on the older teachings and present them with a fresh tongue. Consequently the quirk of celebrity worship causes people to think that these individuals are the source. If they invest the time, they'll come to know different.

It is repulsive, I agree, but everybody is at where they are at.

[lance]

My view of Lee Siu Long (Bruce Lee) is that he is highly over rated. Sure he may have trained hard, but did he train "smart"? Did he know anything about internal training, did he bring anything new to martial arts? It doesn't seem like it.

Because he was the first real martial arts star in the west, he is idolized by many people.

Paul , bruce learned wu style tai chi from his father and he had internal training .
He did train smart , that ' s why he was the greatest . Paul did you write a book before on kung fu ? And Paul if you ever read all the materials like books on bruce all written by people who know him , they ' ll tell you that he was the greatest .

Everything about bruce is all comming out into the open , through books and new documentries being produced by the people who really knew about him . I ' m sure you saw his JKD book who did ' nt . His book contained his own research and investigation on his own art . And JKD was around from the time he began to develop it until the day he died . If you don ' t know that , then where were you ?
Just because you don ' t like bruce don ' t condemn him . If you can do better than him lets see it , then we ' ll shut up .

[Dale Dugas]

Bruce Lee is dead, buried and rotten.

Ozzy is still alive as is Keith Richards.

For all the training, talking, etc that Bruce Lee did, he is dead, buried and rotten.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Bruce Lee was the reason I got interested in MA and that goes for countless people.
He was not the reason I stayed of course, but without Him I never would have been interested in it.
It's just that simple.
Beyond that, MA-wise, anyone that downplays what Bruce did as a MA in terms of, well, anything, I question their motives.
Was he the Best? Nope.
Was he good enough that even the likes of Norris, Lewis and others respected Him? YES.
Did his MA legacy out live him? Yes.
Enough said for me.

[lance]

hi all, i'm new
Wwhat do you all think of Bruce, comming from a kung fu and philosophy point of view?. i know that a lot of people don't like his jeet kune do,
anyway jus curious
thanks

fish

This is just my own opinion about bruce lee , he was the greatest martial artist who ever lived . Some people really liked him and some people really hated him .
So we can all leave it at that , because there ' re are books , movies , and documentry DVDs being produced on him . By people who really knew the man like his students and people who hang around him too .

He could ' nt complete his training in wing chun mainly because he was a bad boy and his family was afraid that he would embarrass the families name by getting into trouble all the time . So that ' s why his parents sent bruce to the US from HK to start a new life in the US . Bruce probably was meant to be a martial artist without any rank or certification . He did learn wu style tai chi from his father who was a wu style tai chi master and was also a friend with GM Ip man . Although bruce the tai chi moves did ' nt work for bruce in a fight , bruce practice the tai chi moves privately and that ' s how he had his internal training . From tai chi he learned wing chun . Other than wing chun he did learn other kinds of kung fu like praying mantis from Gin Foon Mark or Sifu Siu hon son . Northern style kung fu from other kung fu masters , he knew . But bruce his kung fu was chop suey because he learned different things from different sifus in general . Like Choy li fut , little bit of hung gar , white crane , tam tui . And as times went by for bruce he evolved and so did his art . From Jun Fan kung fu went into JKD . Other martial artist like what he was doing so they were learning from him , like the students of Ed Parker , bruce also learned the high kicks from TKD .

His Physical conditioning came from training with different kinds of exercise machines and weight training machines . He wanted to be the best so he trained harder in his weight training . He had his own diet like his own protein drink , he also experiemented with meat , eggs , etc. He had an active metabolism , because he was always skinny .

No other martial artist had philosophies that bruce had like absorb what is useful and to reject what is useless , and to keep what is specifically your own . So that ' s why he alone inspired other martial artist too . And soon the whole world .
He had one challenge with Sifu Wong Jack Man , some people said that he won and some people said that the lost . But it does ' nt matter because alot of people today like learning JKD , mainly because of bruce . And 1 man which I do admit can surpass bruce ' s skills , Tommy Carruthers who trained under bruce ' s last student Ted Wong . Overall wheather you like bruce or not he ' ll always be remembered by people , they talk about him , they carry pictures of him , even in magazine article although it maybe other types of magazine , but still have articles written on him . He practically changed the whole world .

If bruce was ' nt the man he was , I would write this thread too , but what else could I say , he was just the greatest no doubt or ? about it . Even Jhoon Rhee the TKD master would ' nt go into the ring with him , because of the fact that he himself might get knocked out , I believe that too .

[bawang]

if bruce lee was so great, why did he marry his student?

[taai gihk yahn]

if bruce lee was so great, why did he marry his student?

doesn't the opportunity for an Asian man to marry a blonde white American woman trump the "do not marry your student" statute of the Kung Fu Code?

[jo]

if bruce lee was so great, why did he marry his student?

WYF does marrying your student have to do with ANYTHING?

So called "Masters" have been bullspitting the American public for decades with so-called, and oft times made up, "protocols" to use and abuse students' minds, bodies and wallets.

If you want to revel in fantasies and myths, be my guest.

-jo

[bawang]

WYF does marrying your student have to do with ANYTHING?




it has to do with abusing students minds, bodies and wallets.

doesn't the opportunity for an Asian man to marry a blonde white American woman trump the "do not marry your student" statute of the Kung Fu Code?

it is only allowed if you divorce and take half of her monays.

[YouKnowWho]

if bruce lee was so great, why did he marry his student?

I marry to my student too. :mad:

The first time that I touched her hand, she didn't wash her hands for 3 days, That's called "LOVE".

One time I took her to China. We were walking in Beijin and holding hand. Two guys behind us said:

A: What's the situation here?
B: He must be her tour guide.
A: How come a Chinese tour guide holds an American girls hand?
B: He must be her 三陪(San Pei) tour guide (tour guide who also provides sex service).

After that day, I no longer hold my wife's hand when we walk in China. I told her, "It's bad enough to be down graded from your husband position to just a tour guide. To be even down graded to a male prostitute will hurt my macho image big time".

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3816/robinny.jpg

[lance]

if bruce lee was so great, why did he marry his student?

What ' s wrong with marrying his student ? There's nothing wrong with that . Only when you marry your mom , then that ' s something is wrong .

[bawang]

the american reason is some female students may have vulnerable personalities, as a kung fu instructor you are in a position of power and authority. the chinese reason is you can find more white women with asian fetishes. it is assumed if you have to resort to sleeping with your white student, you are a failure.


I marry to my student too. :mad:

The first time that I touched her hand, she didn't wash her hands for 3 days, That's called "LOVE".



we have different views on morality and you wont understand where i am coming from.







If you want to revel in fantasies and myths, be my guest.



as opposed to bruce lee, with his steroid muscles ,high pitched monkey screams, using structure and alignment to defeat the big bad strong bully.

the path of bruce lee is a great delusion. it leads to the grave. i understand his pain growing up in america, and what he had to do to achieve success. but i dont look up to him.

[SteveLau]

At the end of his day, Bruce was a good fellow. He is not perfect in terms of this and that. And he is certainly not the best of martial art and other subjects. But the philosophy of JKD has influenced many people positively in various aspects of their life. It is the heart of JKD. When it is applied to Bruce's martial art, it becomes a JFJKD. When it is applied to car driving, it becomes car driving JKD, etc.



KC
Hong Kong

[TenTigers]

[QUOTE=bawang;1176486]the american reason is some female students may have vulnerable personalities, as a kung fu instructor you are in a position of power and authority. the chinese reason is you can find more white women with asian fetishes. it is assumed if you have to resort to sleeping with your white student, you are a failure.




oh..but if you're a white Sifu, it's ok, right?
cool.:cool:

[SteveLau]

It is a No No for student and teacher to have a love affair in tradition Chinese culture. There is tons of wisdom in it from today's POV. Teacher-student relation and lover-relation are very difficult to be balanced. Perhaps that is why direct family relatives find it hard to do training together as in a teacher and student relation. IMHO, today this is not always a No No. If both persons are adult, it could possibly work.



KC
Hong Kong

[Pakua4581]

My Dad used to take my brother and I to watch Bruce Lee movies as kids,sometimes two movies back-to-back,this was 30 +years ago,I was an absolute fan,learnt about kung fu etc.....then I grew Up!

I dont think an under 30 practitioner is martially mature enough to knock "Classical' and Traditional systems as being a mess/redundant etc.

I honestly feel that masters like Lum Wing Fay(Jook Lum Mantis) or Wang Shu Jin (Bagua,Hsing yi,Taiji) should have knocked the upstart to kingdom come...but then again he would have been too small and unimportant a fish for them to have bothered!

[TenTigers]

My Dad used to take my brother and I to watch Bruce Lee movies as kids,sometimes two movies back-to-back,this was 30 +years ago,I was an absolute fan,learnt about kung fu etc.....then I grew Up!

I dont think an under 30 practitioner is martially mature enough to knock "Classical' and Traditional systems as being a mess/redundant etc.

I honestly feel that masters like Lum Wing Fay(Jook Lum Mantis) or Wang Shu Jin (Bagua,Hsing yi,Taiji) should have knocked the upstart to kingdom come...but then again he would have been too small and unimportant a fish for them to have bothered!
I've heard a few versions, but my understanding is that Lum Wing Fay saw something in the young upstart, which is why he allowed Mark Foon to teach him a bit of Jook Lum.

[Ng Jit]

Sometimes these threads are so difficult to get through without either laughing for weeping for the future of Kung Fu.

Like a lot of westerners I grew up idolizing Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. In the 1970tys those were the guys who were the ambassadors of Chinese martial arts. That was before I actually started learning Chinese Boxing. I have waxed and waned on my opinions of Bruce throughout my life. I have known people who have known him, I have Kung Fu brothers who trained in legit JDK. Still to this day Bruce is of monumental interest to me.

From personal off the record conversations I have gathered this: It all (in my opinion) boils down to a fight that Bruce Lee had in defense of a challenge. There are many stories and theories about that particular fight but in a real life (not being there) aspect, one fact emerges to be completely true. Both the men involved lives were changed radically.

Bruce Lee went into a more external washed down version of Kung Fu that borrowed from many other martial concepts, because he thought that Wing Chun was too slow. And Jack Man went into internal training probably for the iron shirt aspects but I am not positive of that.

This tells me a lot about Bruce Lee and how he died. He could have been a master if it wasn't for his ego. He could have lived to be much older if he had not let what he knows get in the way of what is. Mediation is the foundation of internal knowledge. But in any southern kung fu system there are entire styles of internal training that go with any given system. At least in my experience and in that I have practiced 5 different southern kung fu systems.

Even Bruce Lee's Wing Chun doesn't appear to have what the system I practices is called the “Lower Bell”. He doesn't ever use the default Wing Chun stance work, he uses a great deal of Sil Lum stance's which is fine. But not the way that his teacher Yip Man taught Wing Chun.

Bruce Lee was a victim of Hollywood and his own ego. Once he became a star his ability to continue learning seems to have been stumped. I have heard many things about Yip Man and Bruce Lee's relationship. Most of them are not painted in the best light.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee's lack of knowledge into the internal is what killed him. He often did not sleep, he would push his external body beyond its limits and in the end his life did not come close to the very documented evidence about the virtues of qigong in daily life.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee is a tragedy of Media and and his own legion.

[Fa Xing]

Bruce Lee went into a more external washed down version of Kung Fu that borrowed from many other martial concepts, because he thought that Wing Chun was too slow. And Jack Man went into internal training probably for the iron shirt aspects but I am not positive of that.

This tells me a lot about Bruce Lee and how he died. He could have been a master if it wasn't for his ego. He could have lived to be much older if he had not let what he knows get in the way of what is. Mediation is the foundation of internal knowledge. But in any southern kung fu system there are entire styles of internal training that go with any given system. At least in my experience and in that I have practiced 5 different southern kung fu systems.

Even Bruce Lee's Wing Chun doesn't appear to have what the system I practices is called the “Lower Bell”. He doesn't ever use the default Wing Chun stance work, he uses a great deal of Sil Lum stance's which is fine. But not the way that his teacher Yip Man taught Wing Chun.

Bruce Lee was a victim of Hollywood and his own ego. Once he became a star his ability to continue learning seems to have been stumped. I have heard many things about Yip Man and Bruce Lee's relationship. Most of them are not painted in the best light.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee's lack of knowledge into the internal is what killed him. He often did not sleep, he would push his external body beyond its limits and in the end his life did not come close to the very documented evidence about the virtues of qigong in daily life.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee is a tragedy of Media and and his own legion.

You were doing fine until you spewed this utter ****ing hogwash BS. You say his stuff was watered-down, I say he took out all the crap out that was in traditional martial arts. He found certain techniques were far more efficient for real combat and not senseless pre-arranged air fighting, that looks more like dancing and less like fighting.

There is no real difference between internal and external, no matter what you want to believe. Such fantasy-fu is utter nonsense, and a huge waste of time when it comes to fighting.

[Jimbo]

Sometimes these threads are so difficult to get through without either laughing for weeping for the future of Kung Fu.

Like a lot of westerners I grew up idolizing Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. In the 1970tys those were the guys who were the ambassadors of Chinese martial arts. That was before I actually started learning Chinese Boxing. I have waxed and waned on my opinions of Bruce throughout my life. I have known people who have known him, I have Kung Fu brothers who trained in legit JDK. Still to this day Bruce is of monumental interest to me.

From personal off the record conversations I have gathered this: It all (in my opinion) boils down to a fight that Bruce Lee had in defense of a challenge. There are many stories and theories about that particular fight but in a real life (not being there) aspect, one fact emerges to be completely true. Both the men involved lives were changed radically.

Bruce Lee went into a more external washed down version of Kung Fu that borrowed from many other martial concepts, because he thought that Wing Chun was too slow. And Jack Man went into internal training probably for the iron shirt aspects but I am not positive of that.

This tells me a lot about Bruce Lee and how he died. He could have been a master if it wasn't for his ego. He could have lived to be much older if he had not let what he knows get in the way of what is. Mediation is the foundation of internal knowledge. But in any southern kung fu system there are entire styles of internal training that go with any given system. At least in my experience and in that I have practiced 5 different southern kung fu systems.

Even Bruce Lee's Wing Chun doesn't appear to have what the system I practices is called the “Lower Bell”. He doesn't ever use the default Wing Chun stance work, he uses a great deal of Sil Lum stance's which is fine. But not the way that his teacher Yip Man taught Wing Chun.

Bruce Lee was a victim of Hollywood and his own ego. Once he became a star his ability to continue learning seems to have been stumped. I have heard many things about Yip Man and Bruce Lee's relationship. Most of them are not painted in the best light.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee's lack of knowledge into the internal is what killed him. He often did not sleep, he would push his external body beyond its limits and in the end his life did not come close to the very documented evidence about the virtues of qigong in daily life.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee is a tragedy of Media and and his own legion.

Let's be honest here. How often do you meet MAists who don't have a big ego to some degree or other? And keep in mind that BL only lived to 32. He was still a very young man. But even that's not always the real factor. I've met 80+year-old MAists whose big egos had not diminished over the years.

I've also seen some old "internal" masters who, in spite of their lifelong training, had severely diminished physical and mental capacities, and some other old people who never trained any kind of nei-gong or related training who were fit as a fiddle and mentally lucid well into their 90s. Other things factor in: Attitude in life, lifestyle, genetic makeup, and sometimes simply plain luck.

IMO, "internal" training definitely has its place, but it is not some superhuman panacea that results in perfect human beings.

[mickey]

Greetings,

"As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee is a tragedy of Media....."

There may be more than a little bit of truth to this. Bruce Lee was an avid reader.

It took a flip through John McCallum's "Keys to Progress" to figure out that Bruce sucked up every article the guy put out. I came away from the book thinking that those articles helped put Bruce Lee in his grave. In this regard, Bruce may have been a bit lacking in critical thinking. Given the lack of information available at the time about real training, he did not have anything else to generate that kind of objectivity. Most of those bodybuilding magazines made their real money by selling equipment and supplements. "Absorb what is useful" is something that Bruce Lee taught; in practice, I sense that if he believed that it was useful, he absorbed it.

mickey

[bawang]

I say he took out all the crap out that was in traditional martial arts. He found certain techniques were far more efficient for real combat and not senseless pre-arranged air fighting, that looks more like dancing and less like fighting.


i agree with you about "he doesnt have the real internal" is stupid, but to be the devils advocate, all he knew was wing chun, and some northern forms he learned in 1 week.


i lost respect for him after i learned about him taking steroids.

[Ng Jit]

You know... Screw that. I am tired of uneducated people blasting educated people in their field because of what they think they know.

It is a fact and you can ask any of Bruce Lee's students who are still alive if you can't take my word for it. He utilized western boxing, Fencing and wrestling as well as some Wing Chun concepts. That is not Kung Fu, regardless of what he thought worked or didn't. That is some *******ized MMA style.

I am not going to defend my opinion besides this point because obviously some of you need some information on what Kung Fu is not. The topic is what people's views on Bruce Lee. I gave mine and as of right now the people talkin crap about my opinion with no back up besides what they think they know is insulting.

I will not be wasting my time on this forum anymore.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
:D

[mickey]

Jeesh! I mean Greetings,

I actually agreed with something the guy wrote.


mickey

[bawang]

I will not be wasting my time on this forum anymore.

OK BRO

mbn

[Robinhood]

You know... Screw that. I am tired of uneducated people blasting educated people in their field because of what they think they know.

It is a fact and you can ask any of Bruce Lee's students who are still alive if you can't take my word for it. He utilized western boxing, Fencing and wrestling as well as some Wing Chun concepts. That is not Kung Fu, regardless of what he thought worked or didn't. That is some *******ized MMA style.

I am not going to defend my opinion besides this point because obviously some of you need some information on what Kung Fu is not. The topic is what people's views on Bruce Lee. I gave mine and as of right now the people talkin crap about my opinion with no back up besides what they think they know is insulting.

I will not be wasting my time on this forum anymore.

I wound not take peoples opinions on here to seriously, some are ok , some are not, all in all this forum is better than most forums around.



Cheers

[mickey]

Greetings,

In looking at the tournament footage of Bruce Lee fron the '60's, I would have to say that he is the Father of Kickboxing in this country.


mickey

[Jimbo]

You know... Screw that. I am tired of uneducated people blasting educated people in their field because of what they think they know.

It is a fact and you can ask any of Bruce Lee's students who are still alive if you can't take my word for it. He utilized western boxing, Fencing and wrestling as well as some Wing Chun concepts. That is not Kung Fu, regardless of what he thought worked or didn't. That is some *******ized MMA style.

I am not going to defend my opinion besides this point because obviously some of you need some information on what Kung Fu is not. The topic is what people's views on Bruce Lee. I gave mine and as of right now the people talkin crap about my opinion with no back up besides what they think they know is insulting.

I will not be wasting my time on this forum anymore.

Hmm...uneducated people, huh?
Wasn't Bruce Lee supposed to have the ego problem?

[Ng Jit]

Hmm...uneducated people, huh?
Wasn't Bruce Lee supposed to have the ego problem?

Not ego... Years of study... knowledge that has been given to me and patients. I have a right to say I am educated. Saying I am educated is not saying I am better. It is saying I have gone before.

What I meant (btw I was not taking it seriously I was laughing quite hard actually) was that I made it clear I have known people who knew Bruce Lee. I have talked in depth with them and most of my life I have learned about him and JDK. I do not practice it of course.

I am a kung fu teacher. I am very careful about what I say and often like everyone else not very good at it LOL. I would not start a argument and say someone is full of hogwash if it was a well thought out comment. That is kind of trolling. And trolling makes these boards difficult for most people trying to spread and learn kung fu knowledge.

Generally I just ignore ignorant people but lately I am beginning to see something wrong with the general population. It has to do what what they think they are and what they think they know. Hell I would be in the same boat if it wasn't for some very mean teachers I have had. It is easy to pretend you know something, even easy to pretend you know it to yourself. It is not so easy to learn it and experience it without alot of perseverance.

I am not quitting these forums I am just going to stop my controlled folly. Which was posting in a hot bed of opinion based on no real evidence...

I hope this clears this up.

[Frost]

You actually haven’t posted any evidence either, unless you are prepared to name who you spoke to about Bruce and your sources with regards to others you named so we can verify them, then all you are doing is speculating and posturing as well

As for this bit,

Generally I just ignore ignorant people but lately I am beginning to see something wrong with the general population.

LAMO you are a d*ck, and that is all

[Brule]

I will not be wasting my time on this forum anymore.

And........he's back.

[bawang]

Not ego... Years of study... knowledge that has been given to me and patients. I have a right to say I am educated. Saying I am educated is not saying I am better. It is saying I have gone before.

What I meant (btw I was not taking it seriously I was laughing quite hard actually) was that I made it clear I have known people who knew Bruce Lee. I have talked in depth with them and most of my life I have learned about him and JDK. I do not practice it of course.

I am a kung fu teacher. I am very careful about what I say and often like everyone else not very good at it LOL. I would not start a argument and say someone is full of hogwash if it was a well thought out comment. That is kind of trolling. And trolling makes these boards difficult for most people trying to spread and learn kung fu knowledge.

Generally I just ignore ignorant people but lately I am beginning to see something wrong with the general population. It has to do what what they think they are and what they think they know. Hell I would be in the same boat if it wasn't for some very mean teachers I have had. It is easy to pretend you know something, even easy to pretend you know it to yourself. It is not so easy to learn it and experience it without alot of perseverance.

I am not quitting these forums I am just going to stop my controlled folly. Which was posting in a hot bed of opinion based on no real evidence...

I hope this clears this up.

hy

wat r u wearings

babby

[Fa Xing]

You know... Screw that. I am tired of uneducated people blasting educated people in their field because of what they think they know.

It is a fact and you can ask any of Bruce Lee's students who are still alive if you can't take my word for it. He utilized western boxing, Fencing and wrestling as well as some Wing Chun concepts. That is not Kung Fu, regardless of what he thought worked or didn't. That is some *******ized MMA style.

I am not going to defend my opinion besides this point because obviously some of you need some information on what Kung Fu is not. The topic is what people's views on Bruce Lee. I gave mine and as of right now the people talkin crap about my opinion with no back up besides what they think they know is insulting.

I will not be wasting my time on this forum anymore.

I am far from being any thing uneducated! I have a bachelors degree myself and I am working my doctorate. I have been studying martial arts since I was kid, almost 20 years. I have over ten years in Taiji, mostly Yang, and in some other kungfu.
I am a strength and conditioning coach, and spend my leisure reading science journals, articles, and philosophy.
You stated your opinion and then I stated what I thought, that's the way it works, grow up and get over it.

[Robinhood]

You were doing fine until you spewed this utter ****ing hogwash BS. You say his stuff was watered-down, I say he took out all the crap out that was in traditional martial arts. He found certain techniques were far more efficient for real combat and not senseless pre-arranged air fighting, that looks more like dancing and less like fighting.

There is no real difference between internal and external, no matter what you want to believe. Such fantasy-fu is utter nonsense, and a huge waste of time when it comes to fighting.

"There is a real difference between external and internal, if " you don't think so, you have not met the right people that can show you the difference..

30 years of training does not mean you will know what internal really is, until you find the right people that actually have it, you will think it is just a meaningless term.



Cheers

[Fa Xing]

"There is a real difference between external and internal, if " you don't think so, you have not met the right people that can show you the difference..

30 years of training does not mean you will know what internal really is, until you find the right people that actually have it, you will think it is just a meaningless term.



Cheers

I never said 30, and I have met a few of them. But you are always welcome to come and show me...:rolleyes:

[Robinhood]

I never said 30, and I have met a few of them. But you are always welcome to come and show me...:rolleyes:

I wasn't directing the 30 years at you, but have met people with 30 or more years of experence.

I don't think I will be down that way any time soon, I have heard of one guy down that way, but never got a name.

If you ever get up to SF, PM me.


Cheers

[Fa Xing]

I wasn't directing the 30 years at you, but have met people with 30 or more years of experence.

I don't think I will be down that way any time soon, I have heard of one guy down that way, but never got a name.

If you ever get up to SF, PM me.


Cheers

Sure thing.

[Fa Xing]

I wasn't directing the 30 years at you, but have met people with 30 or more years of experence.

I don't think I will be down that way any time soon, I have heard of one guy down that way, but never got a name.

If you ever get up to SF, PM me.


Cheers

I would also like to extend the offer that if you come down to LA, PM me, I have most of August off.

We can video our "session" ;), so you can show us your chi skillz! :D

[Robinhood]

I would also like to extend the offer that if you come down to LA, PM me, I have most of August off.

We can video our "session" ;), so you can show us your chi skillz! :D

Sorry offer expired, I don't show dic..k heads anything, you can wallow in your ignorance.



Cheers

[taai gihk yahn]

Sorry offer expired, I don't show dic..k heads anything, you can wallow in your ignorance.



Cheers

of course - it's always that way, isn't it... :rolleyes:


(dic heads, of course, meaning anyone who doesn't agree w ur perspective, I'm guessing...)

[SimonM]

of course - it's always that way, isn't it... :rolleyes:


(dic heads, of course, meaning anyone who doesn't agree w ur perspective, I'm guessing...)

At least he hasn't said he'll require a $10,000 retainer from all challengers to "prove they are serious."

[bawang]

Sorry offer expired, I don't show dic..k heads anything, you can wallow in your ignorance.



Cheers

TOO BAD

im on my way in helicopter right now

your resistance only makes my penus harder

[Fa Xing]

Sorry offer expired, I don't show dic..k heads anything, you can wallow in your ignorance.



Cheers

****it! I knew I should have checked the date on it, and as far as I am concerned since you are the arrogant, name-calling, SOB who you are the great reknowned king of qi who called me out in the first place, I thought I would extend my offer (which still stands).

I also thought it would be generous of me to put my own honor on the line so that I can experience your great qi-blast personally and allow others to see what an "internal" MA could do to an "external" fighter.

However, me thinks you are just another "keyboard qi-warrior" with nothing better to do!

[Fa Xing]

TOO BAD

im on my way in helicopter right now

your resistance only makes my penus harder

This made me laugh so hard, my classmates looked back at me in annoyance!

[Fa Xing]

of course - it's always that way, isn't it... :rolleyes:


(dic heads, of course, meaning anyone who doesn't agree w ur perspective, I'm guessing...)

Sign of true keyboard warrior that is nothing but a coward!

[Robinhood]

Sign of true keyboard warrior that is nothing but a coward!


Whatever, your not ready or worthy to learn yet, keep doing what your doing.

[Robinhood]

This made me laugh so hard, my classmates looked back at me in annoyance!

Ya, that fits with my assessment of your level.

Keep on keepen on, cool dude.

[Robinhood]

****it! I knew I should have checked the date on it, and as far as I am concerned since you are the arrogant, name-calling, SOB who you are the great reknowned king of qi who called me out in the first place, I thought I would extend my offer (which still stands).

I also thought it would be generous of me to put my own honor on the line so that I can experience your great qi-blast personally and allow others to see what an "internal" MA could do to an "external" fighter.

However, me thinks you are just another "keyboard qi-warrior" with nothing better to do!

I don't have to do anything to you, you are your own worst enemy.

Good luck with your external view.

[Fa Xing]

Whatever, your not ready or worthy to learn yet, keep doing what your doing.

Oh thank you, venerable master I will strive to be more obedient, to not think for myself, and believe what any internet asshat tells me is true.

You're correct my years spent practicing what you think is real is completely invalid, or the fact that I had been like you myself and after realizing that most internal people I met couldn't fight their way out of a paper-bag, I sought to find out what real fighting skills were.

But my god, you're RIGHT! I have been so f-ing lost, I will go practice circle walking and practice my chi-blasts!

[Robinhood]

Oh thank you, venerable master I will strive to be more obedient, to not think for myself, and believe what any internet asshat tells me is true.

You're correct my years spent practicing what you think is real is completely invalid, or the fact that I had been like you myself and after realizing that most internal people I met couldn't fight their way out of a paper-bag, I sought to find out what real fighting skills were.

But my god, you're RIGHT! I have been so f-ing lost, I will go practice circle walking and practice my chi-blasts!


No, just keep doing what your doing, your really close.

[Fa Xing]

I don't have to do anything to you, you are your own worst enemy.

Good luck with your external view.

No, you don't, but as long as you claim as you do, the burden of proof rests on you. You're right, I am my own worst enemy because I am the cause of my own ignorance, but since I know what that is I can keep myself on track, and not fail myself.

You don't seem to know much about that though because from you have told us, you show a fundamental misunderstanding of martial arts. You see martial arts has showed me that there is no difference between internal and external, the opponent and I. After some time fighting, it became about relationships, and when I let go of myself "it did it all by itself!"

But that's beyond you, but I hope not forever!

[bawang]

lesson of the day


do not argue with an assburger

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9j5vtyEb31qe0tgno1_500.png


https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRiBiWvZojPcP2stFKowMqY8GV0AfH9M a4ios7kN_eduJVIdLxT

[Happy Tiger]

I had a wonderfully introspective and honorable visit to master Lee Jun Fan and Brandon Lee's resting place last October(2011) First time visitor, long time respect and admiration. It was a road trip full of strange coinicidence and good omens, making it seem mysterious. I even had a unique interaction with the protective, surly guard that was worth the trip right there. At that time I re affirmed my dedication to self understanding commitment to community and the martial way...I'm still geekin out over it.:cool::)
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/388936_1989986127721_1717485252_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/383733_1989978447529_1380660438_n.jpg
>bows deeply<

[Fa Xing]

That's really awesome HT, I have always wanted to do something very similar. In fact, my big plan would be to start here in Chinatown, LA on College St. and then make my way North tracing his path backwards here in the US.

[Happy Tiger]

That's really awesome HT, I have always wanted to do something very similar. In fact, my big plan would be to start here in Chinatown, LA on College St. and then make my way North tracing his path backwards here in the US.
That would be an incredible pilgrimage. Especially now we've lost both master Ted Wong. (time constraints didn't allow me to visit his resting spot.) and now sifu Jesse Glover, also laid to rest at Lakeview cemetary.
I made a mistake in my post re: the date. It was actually November 28th to be exact, The day after master Lee's birthday. We had been held up in traffic and got to the cemetary right at closing.(4:15 p.m.) The guard was just shutting the gate when we pulled up. He wouldn't let the car in and with a huff grumbled, " I've heard every excuse in the book." He gave my pathetic personage a scornfull look up , down and finally,let me and only me attempt to run to the grave site. No directions, nothing. He hollered after me..." You'll never make it, kid. You've got 2 minutes and I'm locking the gate with or without you!!" Funny enough, with only the image in my mind from pictures (I think I Google Earthed it once:cool:) I more or less marched straight to the spot...got there at exactly 4:20 (heheheh, for those in the know)I spent about 5 min. there...time that stretched out forever, it seemed. Completely alone...just them and I. As I walked out and past that cool, grumpy guard, he said," Well, did you learn the secret of life, kid?" I said "Thank you for the break, sir. All I really feel right now is life is soooo worth living!!" He said," Come back again at a decent time and your friends can go, too."
What an awsome moment!!!:):cool:

[lance]

Sometimes these threads are so difficult to get through without either laughing for weeping for the future of Kung Fu.

Like a lot of westerners I grew up idolizing Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. In the 1970tys those were the guys who were the ambassadors of Chinese martial arts. That was before I actually started learning Chinese Boxing. I have waxed and waned on my opinions of Bruce throughout my life. I have known people who have known him, I have Kung Fu brothers who trained in legit JDK. Still to this day Bruce is of monumental interest to me.

From personal off the record conversations I have gathered this: It all (in my opinion) boils down to a fight that Bruce Lee had in defense of a challenge. There are many stories and theories about that particular fight but in a real life (not being there) aspect, one fact emerges to be completely true. Both the men involved lives were changed radically.

Bruce Lee went into a more external washed down version of Kung Fu that borrowed from many other martial concepts, because he thought that Wing Chun was too slow. And Jack Man went into internal training probably for the iron shirt aspects but I am not positive of that.

This tells me a lot about Bruce Lee and how he died. He could have been a master if it wasn't for his ego. He could have lived to be much older if he had not let what he knows get in the way of what is. Mediation is the foundation of internal knowledge. But in any southern kung fu system there are entire styles of internal training that go with any given system. At least in my experience and in that I have practiced 5 different southern kung fu systems.

Even Bruce Lee's Wing Chun doesn't appear to have what the system I practices is called the “Lower Bell”. He doesn't ever use the default Wing Chun stance work, he uses a great deal of Sil Lum stance's which is fine. But not the way that his teacher Yip Man taught Wing Chun.

Bruce Lee was a victim of Hollywood and his own ego. Once he became a star his ability to continue learning seems to have been stumped. I have heard many things about Yip Man and Bruce Lee's relationship. Most of them are not painted in the best light.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee's lack of knowledge into the internal is what killed him. He often did not sleep, he would push his external body beyond its limits and in the end his life did not come close to the very documented evidence about the virtues of qigong in daily life.

As far as I am concerned Bruce Lee is a tragedy of Media and and his own legion.

Ng Jit , you ' re right , you ' re entitiled to your own opinions towards Bruce Lee .
But some of the things you said about bruce is ' nt true at all . So go and do your own research on bruce . Theres' alot of books and documentry being published and produced on bruce so go and do your own research .

Your kung fu forms demo on the youtube looks good , but no power . I ' ve seen alot of different kung fu masters demo their forms they all have power . How come you don ' t have power .

What is lowerbell ? Your own version of kung fu right ? The frame work came from the 5 southern styles you ' ve learned right ?

If bruce was uneducated how the hell did he developed JKD then ? Think about it ? Maybe you ' re the uneducated one ?

[Happy Tiger]

Ng Jit , you ' re right , you ' re entitiled to your own opinions towards Bruce Lee .
But some of the things you said about bruce is ' nt true at all . So go and do your own research on bruce . Theres' alot of books and documentry being published and produced on bruce so go and do your own research .

Your kung fu forms demo on the youtube looks good , but no power . I ' ve seen alot of different kung fu masters demo their forms they all have power . How come you don ' t have power .

What is lowerbell ? Your own version of kung fu right ? The frame work came from the 5 southern styles you ' ve learned right ?

If bruce was uneducated how the hell did he developed JKD then ? Think about it ? Maybe you ' re the uneducated one ?
I respect your view, Ng Jit and Lance... IMO you are right in many ways. But it depends on your perspective.
I have always been against the kinda 'whitewashing' of Bruce Lee's life by many, not least of all his widow, Linda. This is our way isn't it? Too cannonize an incredible person and see only the 'good' or 'wholesome' aspects of their life. And erase anything 'bad'. I am sure that Lee wouldn't have wanted that.
Bruce Lee was both derivitive and feircely individualistic. He was sensitive in the extreme, yet was ultra aggressive.
He was a man perfect for his time for what he did, (which almost makes an argument for 'destiny'.)
Bruce was a man of contrasts.
I relate to Lee personally in two ways. Huge physical and mental contrasts to harmonise . And dedication to self understanding.
I like the fact your keeping it real, Ng Jit. Lee would have slapped you on the back for that.
Kung Fu is a journey. A journey that can take us far away to the ends of our potential. It is also everything you've said, too.
Read the book 'Unsettled Matters by the ex of Linda, Tom Bleeker. It really rips things up.
I still admire and love Bruce Lee. More for his problems, incredible successes despite and glorious failures than any Idealized bull**** reguarding same.
He shows that it life isn't anything but what you want it to be. He made his choices and flowed through them...If he had it to do again, he'd a done it the same way, I reckon.
I'm gratefull that the world has Bruce Lee

[lance]

I respect your view, Ng Jit and Lance... IMO you are right in many ways. But it depends on your perspective.
I have always been against the kinda 'whitewashing' of Bruce Lee's life by many, not least of all his widow, Linda. This is our way isn't it? Too cannonize an incredible person and see only the 'good' or 'wholesome' aspects of their life. And erase anything 'bad'. I am sure that Lee wouldn't have wanted that.
Bruce Lee was both derivitive and feircely individualistic. He was sensitive in the extreme, yet was ultra aggressive.
He was a man perfect for his time for what he did, (which almost makes an argument for 'destiny'.)
Bruce was a man of contrasts.
I relate to Lee personally in two ways. Huge physical and mental contrasts to harmonise . And dedication to self understanding.
I like the fact your keeping it real, Ng Jit. Lee would have slapped you on the back for that.
Kung Fu is a journey. A journey that can take us far away to the ends of our potential. It is also everything you've said, too.
Read the book 'Unsettled Matters by the ex of Linda, Tom Bleeker. It really rips things up.
I still admire and love Bruce Lee. More for his problems, incredible successes despite and glorious failures than any Idealized bull**** reguarding same.
He shows that it life isn't anything but what you want it to be. He made his choices and flowed through them...If he had it to do again, he'd a done it the same way, I reckon.
I'm gratefull that the world has Bruce Lee


HappyTiger , you right we can often talk about bruce just like the way you mention , but we may not know how his wife linda had influence him too . I read some place that linda was married before ? So tell me white tiger you seem to know something that I may not know tell me about linda ? And thanks for the information on the book by tom bleeker .

[Happy Tiger]

HappyTiger , you right we can often talk about bruce just like the way you mention , but we may not know how his wife linda had influence him too . I read some place that linda was married before ? So tell me white tiger you seem to know something that I may not know tell me about linda ? And thanks for the information on the book by tom bleeker .
Hey, Lance, I'm on a Crackberry right now so I'll post more later. One thing about B. Lee and YGKYM is the difference in leg length he was born with(up to one inch reported). In many of the earliest pics. Of him he's already favouring a forward right leg. I think this was more adapting to his frame rather than 'power lead' experimentation. It wasn't till he was studied up in fencing, I think, before he had a theory that blended to his natural right forward inclination. But there are enough clips and pics of him in good VT posture, even though, I believe it made him uncomfortable and stressed his composition.

[Fa Xing]

Linda was like 17 or 18 when Bruce and her married, so there was no way she was married before. I have read before that there was a plan to just focus on the positive aspects of Bruce's life, but whether this is true or not, we can take away from Bruce's example of putting both feet forward and achieving everything we can in our own life.