Kicks which seem useless

[scotty1]

Does anybody use axe or crescent kicks regularly in their sparring?

Are these actual techniques present in Kungfu styles or are they borrowed from kickboxing?

The reason I ask is because they are both high, quite obviously telegraphed kicks. Or is that just my technique?

Surely during both of these kicks an experienced opponent could have a field day with your supporting leg?

So - how, why, when and where?

[anton]

My sifu once told me that his sifu could do a crescent kick over someone's head without the rest of his body moving an inch.

[dezhen2001]

dang! :eek:

[Nichiren]

I have seen TKD guys execute axe-kicks on the way in. They were lightning fast and I wouldn't want to stand on the receiving end...

[scotty1]

No, I wouldn't want one on my head.

[xiong]

I don't know about axe kicks, but the inside and outside crescent kicks are a staple of the CMA that I have learned.

I don't spar at all now, but when I did Northern Shaolin we sparred a little every class and I used the kicks a few times. You have got to be very fast, I wasn't and got kicked in the nads the last time I used an outside crescent. Since then I've tried to figure out how to train to use it, but it may not e that practical a technique for me.

[DelicateSound]

Axe kick can be lethal. It swings down right on your head. It's hard to block, even if you make contact it'll plow through your forearms into your skull - it has gravity on its side.

[scotty1]

I wouldn't try to block it, I would evade and strike the supporting leg.

Surely, whichever way you look at it, the guy is there on one leg with his other leg above his head. Takedown anyone?

I think people that can do more mobile axe kicks are worse to deal with.

[qeySuS]

I like it a lot, i'm in TKD btw. I'll hopefully be getting a tape with me and my teammates competnig in USA late last year maybe i'll MPG it and see if i cant find a good crescent axe kick and show you (dont think i'll show anyone my own fight though :D )

[Ray Pina]

I will sort of cresent kick a low round house (me coming inside out and underneath to catch them in that soft spot or balls) or low front kick. Usually Ii'll just jam with my knee turned in toward my groin or simply take the kick.

I know that sounds suspect, taking a kick, and I know, "what about mai tai, but really, stepping into a roud house and letting it disperse along your entire body, even across your side and back, isn't that bad, and you are in great position with leverage and two feet on the ground.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like being close, body to body when fighting. I want to control the man and not get to caught up with limbs. Cover the neck/face, cover the groin (knee) and go right to it.

On a much larger, longer guy, then I'll fight the limbs, cut them down one at a time.

[scotty1]

A crescent axe kick? A kick that comes in from the outside and drops down?

[shaolinboxer]

Andy Hug used this kick to great success (axe kick).

The axe kixk is a good working kick because is come down ontop of you as you lean back to get away from another attack.

I don't use it much however, because of the dangers of hyperextending the knee (which I have seen over and over). Damage to your ACL or other ligiments and cartilidge never really heal completely.

A high risk, high reward kick.

[scotty1]

"High risk high reqard"

Seems a fair assesment.

[Johnny Hot Shot]

I use cresent kicks all the time. For me they are fast non telegrphic and good for hitting high in close.

My advice if you want to add these kicks to your sparring arsenal is to practice them alot in the mirror to be sure you are not telegraphing.

The Key to making any kick good is to practice lot's. Setting your kicks up during sparring is key to scoring.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

we call the cresents wheel and dragon tail kicks but they are a little differant in my style. both hit with the ball of the foot.

with the dragon tail (oc) it's not that big of a deal, you just **** your hip like you would for a side kick out of a front facing stance, but it does kinda make it not an oc.

the wheel kick though is exactly like a ic (as far as i can tell) but you are turning the foot in to hit with the ball of the foot. i still can't get the hang of this. i have been doing it with my lower leg completely straight for a long time. i can see his point though . . . i asked him why we kicked this way and he simply but his elbow infront of his ribs.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

oh yeah . ..

i very rarely use them as they are definatley not power kicks in comparison to the many others you have at your disposal.

i tend to use the wheel kick a bit, but only as a feint. ill come in with a fairly high and wide wheel kick and as soon as i see their attention drawn up ill drop it into a sidekick to the knee.

[shaolinboxer]

http://www.fightingmaster.com/legends/andyhug/andy.htm

a real axe kicker. he could dislocate your shoulder with one of them pretty easily. a shame he passed away so young.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Crescent kicks (outside or inside) can be very effective...they have many variations, you can use them to blow a guard off, or weaken roots (even sweep) and the rotating or slapped versions can be quite interesting...the rotating one for the added power and its ease of being inserted in combos, and the slapping version for the quick and surprising trajectory (you can even use it at close range, it'll slap the side of your opponent, quite hard to see, and quite disturbing to take). For me they are definitely very useful kicks that shoul be in everyone's repertoire...
As for the axe kick, personnaly I don't use them and wouldn't try except for fun, but as several already pointed out, some people can really make them work and turn them into a serious threat...

[EARTH DRAGON]

I think you are forgetting cresent kicks can be low also. We have some very good techniques in mantis that utilze cresents to the knee, to open or weaken as crimson said, you cant always assume that they are meant to taget the head.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

ed . .. do you guys strike with the ball or the ridge of the foot on the ic?

[EARTH DRAGON]

GDA, it really depends on the situation and the result in your opponents reaction of the kick, if you want to take out the knee you use the ball, if you want to simply open up the stance you can use the inside or out side of the foot either in a outside in or a inside out cresent. If facing our back to your opponent you can even use the the heel though it feels slightly akward and feels more like a circular back kick. but most actual fighting kicks of mantis use kicks below the waist, high kicks pose way to many risks and open your self up to way to many counters.

[Black Jack]

"Kicks which seem useless"

How about "Impractical kicks which could get you killed".

I like the second title better.

[Xebsball]

Know what would really get you killed on the street??


ME

[Johnny Hot Shot]

You could say that any kick is dangerous simply because you are off balance.
For training purposes I think it is fun to practice high and some times fancy kicks. I also believe that by practicing high kicks you develop stronger faster low kicks.
For real life situations I would never kick higher than the groin possibly even the knee.
The crescent kick or Dragon tail kick (I like that GDA) Can be used as a very devastating Knee strike. By hooking the back of the knee and driving it towards the ground.