View Full Version : Bak Mei, Fujian Bai Hu Quan, Hu Quan, HeiHu Quan, Sth Mantis (Chu Gar) and More...

Shaolin Master
11-01-2000, 05:00 AM
POST ONE : Historical Discussion p 1

Chu Gar (Zhou(Chow) Gar, JookLum Sth Mantis) was commenced by the royal family members that hid in the temple from the ching soldiers. They were in fact in the division that Bak Mei headed and also they were treated special as they were imperial family members of the Ming Dynasty which were most respected by Han chinese(the Abbott instigated the move to protect the Ming Royals). Therefore the art that these people practised were in part from a lot of their own experiences with the addition of some Principles that Bak mei Taught them. Through time like all else this evolved even further to a more distinct style. This is the Essence of the Hakka systems.

As the recorded stories continue Bai Mei was incorrectly accused by many as being a traitor. In fact this is not the actual truth rather one of the imperial family members (One of his inherited students) and sought to attempt obtaining a position of respect and authority. He thus attempted to deal with the ching’s with the promise of wealth and imperial life again, to this end he then provided Ching soldiers with information with regard to internal activities of the temple. The Ching then launched their famous attack and destruction of Fujian Shaolin (Noting that Songshan Shaolin had already been destroyed by the Ching soldiers). Of course through this destruction not too many survive, Chu Fook To and a junior brother are said to have led the Chu Gar Family system through the generations.

Bai Mei however did have his conflicts of ideals with Venerable Elder Chi San, and as a result when time came to part he decide to go his own way. Chi San sought refuge with his student Jyu Gu Cha (Hung Xi Guan) and Luk Ah Choy, also feeling a sense of bitterness towards the Ching who had twice destroyed his hopes of maintaining shaolin temple. The historical accounts of Chi San and the red boats are well documented and I shall not go in depth here.

Feng Dao De was very at peace with himself and sought only to develop his buddhist development and in fact he and Wu Mei are thought to be the more so called spiritually developed/mature of the 5 Elders. It is also said that with the spirit gaining the level of martial arts also gain [thus the statements like Feng Dao De was Elder or better..etc]. Wu Mei being a nun always resided at a nearby temple not at the main shaolin, she and Chi San always had meaningful discussions, her being an external advisor per sea to Chi San. Wu Mei When the Shaolin Temple was destroyed she was not at the scene and she felt that it was best to remain at her more religiously inclined [not martial/rebelliously associated] temple. And so the story continues……..

Bai Mei decided to go West (Way west..) to the Ermei Mts. Where there were many temples and reciding monks in retreat and at peace with themselve. Due to the difficulties in reaching the Ermei Mts. The ching as many other militants did not concern themselves too much with the area and monks were left to practice their cherished religions. Ermei itself is well known in China in the Martial arts and is third in fame after Shaolin and Wudang. Not to mention the amount of religious studies as indian, tibetan and chinese monks all interelated, as did different practises such as Lamaism, Buddhism, Taoism and the like. Feng Dao De decided to accompany Brother Bai Mei.

In Ermei Mt. The influence of Taoism at the time when buddhism was involved in revolt, political upheveal and the rest left Taoism seem like the best path. Noting that both aim at enlightenment just with differing principles and and practises of course. To this result both Bai Mei and Feng Dao De….were convinced.

Bai Mei incorporated many taoist principles and was influenced by Ermei Arts as well. Bai Mei however was much more extrovert and kept many disciples. Feng Dao De being a much more humbled monk duelved on the internal and travelled to many places including Wudang Mt where the influence of the 13 postures and Qi gong were incorporated into his repetoire, not to mention other sites along the paths. The exchange between Bai Mei and Feng Dao De was commentary and discussion rather than systematic development. Though both shared similar foundations from Fujian Shaolin Temple. Foundations were usually in Duan Quan, Mei Hua Quan and Hu Quan.

Bai Mei had many associated lay monks and disciples at Ermei who developed their arts. Feng Dao De did not have as many but he did pass on his arts to fellow monks at Ermei. The Stories from here become branched into the Monasteric and to the Family/Lay disciples(non-monks). As with all arts they branched out into many directions. Whether or not (most probably were) these arts were mixed interelated even further after the elders passing are questions to be left in history……………to be Continued

Shi Chan Long

Shaolin Master
11-01-2000, 05:05 AM
Routines/Sets ...pt 1

My Friends .. I am surprised that this must be discussed in a public Forum but I am also happy that it is.

Let’s Enlighten Everyone

In the Fujian Tradition there are three main ‘Tiger’ Titled system

Bai Hu Quan – White Tiger Fist
Hei Hu Quan – Black Tiger Fist
Hu Quan – Tiger Fist

From these there are many subset styles such as Meng Hu, Er Hu, Fu Hu and the like[typically small and less popular].

In the Fujian Bai Hu Quan there are the following Sets

Chuan Bu Quan – Piercing Step
Hu Bu Ba – Tiger Step Control/Guard
Bai Hu Quan – White Tiger Fist
Meng Hu Xia Shan – Fierce Tiger Descends Mountain
And one more

In Fujian Hei Hu Quan

San Zhan – 3 Battles
Fu Hu Quan – Tiger Taming Fist
Lohan Quan – Arhat’s Fist
Hei Hu Quan – Black Tiger Fist
And One More

In Fujian Hu Quan

San Zhan – 3 Battles
Wu Ben Quan – 5 Fundamentals Fist
Ba Kua Quan – 8 Trigrams Fist
Kan Kua Quan – Ridge Trigrams Fist
San Shi Liu Quan – 36 Fist
Hu Quan – Tiger Fist
Chi Shi Er Shou – 72 Hands
Yi Bai Ling Ba Quan – 108 Fist
And One More

There are sets for [ Fubokuen – thought to use email then thought why not] – Fujian Tiger Systems inherited by 3 Families and three generations of Religious monks <Monk lineage outline previously – Fu Mei >

From the ErMei Lineage [Different to Others slighlty in name but more so in performance]

Bai Mei Quan

Jiu Bu Tui – 9 Step Push
Hu Zhang Ba Bu – Tiger Palm 8 Step
Ba Kua Chui – 8 Trigrams Strike
Shi Ba Shou – 18 Hands
Meng Hu Chu Lin - Fierce Tiger Out Forest
Wu Hang – 5 Elements
And One More

Other Related Routines/Sets [Of Ermei Origin incorporated]
Si Men – 4 Doors
Wu Hu – 5 Tigers
Sam Men Chui – 3 Door Strike
Ying Jow Lien Chui – Eagle Claw Continuos Strike

...Discussion on qualities of Sets to be cont'd

Shi Chan Long

11-01-2000, 11:27 PM
my pak mei is similar to mantis, plenty of sticky hands. the forms are the same but for one. ba bo gong si 8 step cicada do you know of this form.
i have heard that pak mei killed jee shim is that true.

good post on history.


Shaolin Master
11-05-2000, 01:51 AM
8 Step Cicada is not Bak Mei, it is from guangdong provinces.
Bak Mei not kill Chi San ...that is a movie story or something. Some silly Iron Head (Chi San) Vs Iron Body (Bak Mei) etc....
There was a little power play as such but no death according the Historical Texts ' Records of Fujian Arts ' and ' Fujian Shaolin Fist Thesis'
Also Everyone speaks of 5 Southern Elders but the were other well versed MArtists as well as them....
Fujian Burned down during the Bak Mei, Fung Dao De, Hung Hei Gun,....etc era. But it was rebuilt and established again when the ban was lifted by the Qing Government [ Only to be burned down again towards end of 19th Century ] ..but whats new !

Til Soon

Shi Chan Long

11-05-2000, 02:04 AM
tell me what do you know of the training of ba bo gong sei. 8 step cicada do you train it? your knowledge is good but wher can i get this info on fukien thesis you talk about.

does it come from guang dong tell me more please
email me if you like.



02-12-2001, 11:36 AM

the records you mention "fujian arts" and "fist thesis"...are they available in english. how can i get them. thanks

02-13-2001, 02:55 AM
ShoalinMaster--just want to say " welcome back " and looking forword to hear more from you.