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View Full Version : Nanquan/changquan fighting effectiveness



NatGun
01-16-2002, 02:14 PM
I have always thought that martial arts, and more specifically Kung Fu were the highest forms of physical discipline, and finally after years of wanting to start learning, i finally signed up. I have been trying to do as much research on the web as i could on the different styles, but i have rarely found anything on actual combat effectiveness of the different styles, basically as far as i can tell, Wing Chun seems to be the style with the most direct "Martial" applications, but I know little on this subject.
The Kung Fu school i have joined, curriculum breaks down like this: there are 3 levels, beginning with Nanquan. Level 2 teaches Changquan, which includes staff training. Level 3 includes Eagle Claw, Drunken Boxing, and Monkey styles, also training with several weapons becomes available such as the halbard and 3-section staff.
I have read that modern Nanquan and Changquan are basically art forms, that are used for demonstration competitions and have little actual "martial" applications. Now i fully expect that any Kung Fu style has an element of show and an element of combat applicablility, but If i am going to learn a "Martial Art" i would like to know that I am learning something that is actually teaching me how to conduct myself during combat, and not a style that is impressive to look at, but has little combat merit.
I am not trying to start a discussion on "which style is better" as each MA practitioner has different reasons for learning different styles. But for someone like myself who cares little about flash, and more about combat effectiveness, have I made a mistake attending a school that teaches nanquan and changquan?? There is a Wing Chun, and a Praying Mantis school near by, but they are more difficult for me to get to. Is Wing Chun, or praying mantis a better choice for me?
Basically I want to know what you guys think of Nanquan and Changquan in a combat situation. But any information you can give me on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Xebsball
01-16-2002, 06:02 PM
You probably are at a contemporary wushu school so they probably wont teach you to fight. They will teach you how do to forms and stuff.

Modern Wushu is based on tradicional chinese martial arts, but their focus is on show. Oftenly they dont teach the applications of the moves on the forms, dont do fighting drills and dont have sparring.

You mentioned eagle claw, but you must be talking about the wushu eagle claw form since the eagle claw system takes like 10 years to be fully learned.

I do feel that the Wing Chun and Praying Mantis schools are better for you since you dont wanna miss the fighting part of the chinese martial arts. Go check em out and ask questions, how is the training, how often to they spar and such...

Good luck

NatGun
01-16-2002, 09:53 PM
well, i have only been to one class so far, but we started out with some shadow boxing and then moved on to about 15-20 minutes of sparring, which was a great workout. our instructor had us throw various punches and kicks and enphasized protecting the jaw with blocks. and even though one student in particular really exploited my inexperience. he didnt strike hard, and i was happy to fight someone who was obviously better than i, this is the only way to learn in my opinion. Is this something that a modern Wushu school teaching nanquan and changquan completely leaves out?

could nanquan and changquan, when combined with sparring and fighting drills be an effective fighting system? or does the very nature of these styles rule out effective combat in any way? when i return for my second class in 2 days, what questions could i ask my instructor about the combat element of our curriculum? please forgive my ignorance on this subject, i am just trying to absorb everything i can about Kung Fu in general, especially the combat aspects.

Thank you for help.

jon
01-17-2002, 03:42 AM
Im afraid you just hit on a nasty double edged sword.
Nanquan means southern kung fu.
Changchan means long fist
Wushu means martial art.

Here is the big problem in the west we usualy equate these terms to mean the performance orientated ruitines which the PRC has 'alowed' to be used for competion.
Power is not important either are fighting techinque, the reason being they cant be judged in competion of forms. These forms do not belong to any traditional system and are often made up by the performer.

Here is the big but...
Becouse these terms are also used in china as a general term like we might use 'martial arts' occasionaly you do find schools that say they teach 'wushu' when infact there just teaching several forms of kung fu and rather than name all the arts or use the term 'Kung fu'[which actualy translates to 'skill in'] they use wushu as a generic term to say they teach more than one style.
Hence your sifu teaching Nanquan simply means he may have learnt a couple of southern styles.
If they spar its unlikely your doing performance wushu, stick with it and see how it go's. If it starts to look like your doing dance and are never learning any practical application though its proberly time to find a new school.

In short it can cut both ways...
Could be performance based martial arts[from your discription i dont think so]
Could be just a general term being used to say he does southern systems.

I will however say openly he is claiming to teach a LOT of styles, he has more than likely mixed some aspects together or is teaching cut down versions.
Monkey, Eagle and Longfist [these are actualy northern systems]are all totaly seperate styles and people have devoted there whole lives to mastering only one. To say you know all of them well would be pushing it. Add to that the fact he says he teachs southern kung fu as well and i hate to say it but red flags start going up...
Still it looks like it works and you dont care to much about linage and things like that then go for it.

Xebsball
01-17-2002, 08:22 AM
Could nanquan + changquan + sparring + drills work for self defense?

Well yes it could.

But i suggest you follow Jons idea on the subject.

NatGun
01-17-2002, 01:40 PM
Thanks a buch guys, this makes me feel a whole lot better. i just wanted to make sure that i wasnt making a mistake. I signed up for 3 months with this particular school. i hope at the end of that time i will have a good idea where the curriculum is going, and i will post updates here to get some feedback from you. I really appreciate the info.

thanks,
nat