An appeal to return this to a real Kung Fu forum again

[jaz1069]

Fellow Martial Artists:

With a martial arts back ground that is primarily in Japanse Karate, Uechi Ryu and Aikido, I do not often post here as my knowledge of the Chinese arts are very limited. I do however, read the conversations that go back and forth between everyone and have really enjoyed the now huge thread about the secrecy of Southern Mantis. That thread alone is the reason I came to this forum and in two weeks, (after much research I have found a local mantis school that comes highly recommended), I will be taking my first class. I think it will be interesting to see how the almost miliaristic atmosphere of Japanese martial arts will compare to a Chinese school.

Be sure that after that first class I will be posting more often as I will then have a limited base to begin asking questions about style and techniques.

I have been reading this forum for over the year and have noticed the Troll trend really come to light in the past few months. Granted, sometimes we get fooled. But when we see threads that are started by Ralik, or any of the other 23 ways he spells his name, why do we even read or respond to it?

I have seen so much trash talking and challanges in the past couple weeks that this forum is beginning to remind me of Jr. High school when our mantra was, "Meet me in the alley!" It is getting old very quickly and not as educational as it used to be.

My biggest concern is that there are people who's posts I used to look forward to reading that have left. Usually with a tert message saying that this forum is too immature and they must leave...otherwise they just stop posting all together. Others have resorted to beginning their own private Troll Free forums. I know that Richard Mantis has done so, which means that those with mantis experience that have been invited to join, will now likely stop posting here.

So what is left? Trolls, inexperienced kung fu students, and experienced ones that just havn't taken the time to begin their own forums but will be leaving soon. Board it up!

So the question I propose is...what are we going to do about it?

[David Jamieson]

Well, you can only do what you can do.

Start posting more relevant topics.

There are only a few people here who for some reason are unable to stay on the topic of Chinese martial arts. When a good post arrives it usually attracts a few like minded individuals.

Some will attempt to be spoilers by throwing in their old chestnut diatribes and yes I agree, ignoring them is best.

THere are currently a few posters here who can't get enough regarding the topics of groundfighting, jujitsu , mma and so on. which is fine in context to Kung Fu.

I'm sure they just don't realize that there are forums out there populated with martial artists who can supply them with all the answers they need, but instead they choose to be here.

I don't know why, they just are.

So, as the old saying goes, "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem".

Lurking is fine, but it is also a form of taking without reciprocity. The lurkers with good topics to post should post them.

It's a free forum. Relevant content would be a bonus. It seems some members just can't get off the topics that don't relate to Kung Fu. Some posters even just burn up forum space with idle chit chat about nothing, cluttering the threads.

No point in getting mad about it, just post some good stuff and people will respond. If the subject is pertinent enough, the threads will grow and the content will begin to be more relevant than irrelevant.

Thanks for your help in this matter.

peace

[Sharky]

instead of moaning about it, why not start off some amazingly interesting topics

and who the hell are you anyway?

[red5angel]

It would be ideal if we could get the ball rolling but really all you have to do is like Kunglek said, start posting on relative topics and dont feed the fire on the trolls, etc....
Good luck with your first class!

[shaolinboxer]

There have been a couple intelligent strings here in the last few days...you just have to skip over the trolling and joking.

This forum is a microcosom of the martial arts world, tons of junk laying ontop of a small pile of gold.

"I think it will be interesting to see how the almost miliaristic atmosphere of Japanese martial arts will compare to a Chinese school. "

It all depends on where you train. My kung fu instructors where much harder to deal with than my aikido instructors. Good luck and don't be surprised.

[xiong]

I try to only post when I have something to input and have begun to turn away from any thread started by someone who seems to be filling up the forum with drivel.

I just wish I wasn't getting sucked into threads that seem interesting only to find that they've been hijacked by some ignoramus or are really private emails between people who know eachother. Perhaps we all need to start rating topics, as well as looking at them.

I'll also try to start posting some. I'm not an expert or a bad ass, just a guy who likes martial arts and wants to improve.

Lastly, whats up with the lack of profile info? I don't need to know peoples gender, age or email but it would be nice to know what their experiences are as a basis for their opinions. Is this forum full of Black Belts in Tae Bo? The privacy advocates know who they are.

[scotty1]

Interesting thread. Yet again I see a thread about Ralek 'leaving' and what do you know, its got three pages of replies.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

they bite.

[jaz1069]

Originally posted by Sharky
instead of moaning about it, why not start off some amazingly interesting topics

and who the hell are you anyway?

Sharky:

Rereading my post several times I thought it was pretty much flame proof. Oh well...but I would appreciate your keeping your language under control.

Though I may of done nothing you are aware of to earn your respect, I'm not aware of anything I've done to earn your disrespect.;)

[nospam]

Great response Mr. Lek.

In the posts that go sour or cause a huge fireball, its cause someone posts their indisputable truth strongly and is willing to back it up with conviction. These posts tend to get silly after a while, but we all need to vent.

Every once in a while I'll throw things out there for something to do. Most of us are males here with egos to match! hahaha Challenge me I say. I'll try to rationalise my point, and at times I have recinded some comment or suggestion I had made. Why? Because I was challenged, and that alone is the key to achieving and maintaining good gung fu.

Regarding trolls? Too many folks around these parts that are bored and stop to feed the trolls. I don't know about you, but in each and every one of them threads, I sure as heck see the signs: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Got Milk?

nospam.
:cool:

[JasBourne]

I disagree with one concept - that known career trolls should be suffered, ala "DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS". I find it deplorable that system administrators do not deny these avowedly disruptive users their posting privileges. Since when do a$$holes have a right to pee on the coffeetable? Is this forum run by a private company, or is it a federally-funded public space?

Attracting and retaining good posters follows the same business rules that attracting and retaining good customers does. If you make the experience pleasant and safe, the customer will return again and again. If you allow a second customer to remain in your store while he harrasses the first customer, you will lose the good customer and soon have a store full of the bad ones, who buy nothing.

If the administrators contemplated for a moment the tremendous assets being lost (good intelligent posters) by taking no action to remove these liabilities (nasty little trolls dedicated to dissent and destruction), they might be able to take effective action to make this marketing vehicle (the forum) a more productive tool for their business (selling martial arts magazines and supplies).

I used to really, really like KFO. Now, I wander in once in a while, then wander back out, because of all the noisy juvenile posturing. I buy nothing from martialartsmart.com, and will most likely allow my magazine subscription to lapse.

I've tried "being a part of the solution". Frankly, unlike Gene Ching, I am not being paid to make the KFO forum a fun and successful interactive community. I will only try so many times before all the noise makes it a waste of my time. It would seem that many other people feel the same way.

[DelicateSound]

Kung Lek - I think you're a great guy but I have one question.

Why do you close down Martial Joe's thread, but leave all of Ralek's open?

I know MJ's thread was mostly non-martial arts related but at least it was civilised - and there were some important posts there. Loads of troll threads are just full of abuse and filth - but they stay open.

Why?

[Ryu]

If there's anyone who's got a bug up their butt about "right and wrong" "moral and immoral" it is me. ;)

But I can say this...even though there can be some dumb things here, it really is tame compared to some of the other forums I've been to :( That's why I like KFO more than the others...generally people have respect for people, have good characters, don't post offensive material, etc. There's the bozos that do, but I don't think they are the majority...whereas in some other forums...

But Jas can't leave!! :( We'll clean it up. :)

Ryu

[old jong]

What do you think of chinese martial arts?...I just want to know! You are always telling us about how you would'nt like to face a BJJ purple belt with a bad attitude and so and so but I never see you write about a Wing chun guy with ten years of training!...Or a hung gar Sifu etc. You get my point?
You see, many wrestlers come here but why?...Is it to share?.. To teach?...To learn? (I dont think so)To shine?...

[Ryu]

Well, I haven't had that much experience with TCMA, and I've not really sparred or fought them that much either. I did beat a military guy/security guard who claimed they taught him Eagle Claw or something in the military, but I don't know if it was true or not. He wasn't much of a fighter. I have a Chinese friend who does Northern and Southern Shaolin Kung Fu (I think that's what it is) Now he's good, and I love working with him because his feet are so **** fast, but when we spar I still am able to get him on the ground and either punch or lock. He wants to learn a bit of my stuff so he knows what to do down there, and he's teaching me some Chinese sword forms because I think they're beautiful, and I like some of the "fencing" aspects of them.

Wing Chun I never really fought... I went to a WC school once when I was like 15, but I don't think they were really good because I used the JKD blast to just chase them backwards when we sparred....but it was a mckwoon. A guy who trained from a guy who knew a Chinese "master" LOL :)

I think any martial art if trained realistically and with some contact and occasional sparring can be functional. I am not stupid enough to think that I can take on someone just because they do "kung fu" People like Cung Le and others all can drop me. I know they can, and I don't claim that they couldn't :D

So I guess I'm more afraid of BJJ, etc because that is the style I've faced and trained in more maybe. And I have experience on what that one can do. But I'm sure there's kung fu guys out there that can take me out too. It's an athleticism, attributes thing I think.

I come here because most people are nice, I enjoy Asian culture, and I think most people here are interesting. I'm very open to learning some things about KF, I'm not here to debunk it.
Why would I do that?

Ryu

This board actually was good when I first came on about 2 years ago.

Now, it's sort of like Yemen or Afghanistan - lawless, faceless, shameless, substanceless.

I've tried constantly to post real topics here, but clearly they are not of any interest to anybody here except those guys like JasBourne who've basically left.

This forum reflects what's going on in real life quite vividly. Throw darts at others without revealing your face. Show some disrespect and maybe people will fear you. Forget substance, it's too difficult to achieve. Embrace sensationalism and you ensure (in)fame forever.

The weenies doing the flaming here are weenies in real life as well.

[Fu-Pow]

Jas Bourne brings up a good point. This is a for profit web site. So why wouldn't Kung fu magazine want to keep their good "customers" coming back? It would be like having a TV station and you kept re-running bad shows. Who's gonna watch the commercials in between? Or in this case the banners for martialartsmart.com.

I have often found good advice/information on this website but I often have to wade through the personal flame wars and other crap on the site. So I spend less time here than I would and more time at sites like cyberkwoon.com, hungkuen.net and clfma.com which are better moderated.

I would like to point out that this new format is better in the sense that you put people on your ignore list. I currently have Ralek and Ego Extroadinaire on my ignore list (no need to respond guys I'm never gonna see it.) problem is that you can't block out the threads that they start.

This website could benefit from looking around at what other sites are doing, specifically cyberkwoon.com. They break up their forums into better categories.

[old jong]

You answer my question in a nice way and I appreciate.
All the best.

[Chris McKinley]

By not at least filtering content for blatantly disrespectful posts, this forum has been a monument to poor marketing since I first came here in Summer 2000. It's only gotten worse since then.

Let's take a look at it from a basic marketing perspective. First, you get all types that will visit here. That's ok. Any retail store will have all kinds of people wandering in to check it out when it first opens. However, if the store doesn't control the quality of the product they offer, their shelves will be full of mostly poor quality products since they are cheaper to produce, kind of like a trinket store for tourists. Soon, the serious shopper looking for quality and willing to pay more money for it will reach a threshold past which they are no longer willing to sift through aisle after aisle of junk to find quality items. They will then simply take their money elsewhere. This also means that any in-store advertising becomes completely useless and itself becomes wasted money on the part of the store owner.

Now, it's valuable to know where the serious customers are going. After being burned by the last store, they are going to be looking for a place with a reputation for only quality products being offered, even if they have to pay a little more for it. This second store has the advantage that, while fewer total customers may walk through the door than the trinket shop, each customer is far more likely to be a buyer, more likely to spend more per purchase, and more likely to become a repeat customer at this higher spending level. However, this second store also has two more significant advantages.

One, any in-store advertising they use will be far more productive since it's associated with the quality their customers already trust. An example, a placard advertising automotive parts hanging in a Mercedes-Benz showroom will automatically be considered to be of higher quality than the same placard advertising the same products hanging in the showroom at Krazy Karz used car lot. As a result of this, the advertiser in the second type of store gets faster and better brand recognition.

Two, the second type of store can advertise its reputation for quality out-of-store and the ad will have credibility, thus drawing in even more high-quality loyal customers who are willing to spend more money.

Everyone's seen the KFO Forum ads in the martial arts magazines. Ever wonder how much more productive these ads could be, in terms of cold hard $$$, if KFO could also advertise a consistent reputation of quality and a high signal-to-noise ratio? Perhaps certain serious martial artists with money to spend wouldn't so easily dismiss a KFO ad as just another place for random chatter, trolling, flaming, unreliable information, etc. If those same serious customers decided to come here and saw the advertising, they might be willing to part with some of that money. Otherwise, most of the on-site advertising is being wasted on a predominance of trolls, kids with no money to spend, and a relatively few serious folks who haven't necessarily made the association of quality to anything related to KFO.

[wushu chik]

The problem is that people like Ralek, and Jacki and whoever else is constantly flaming and trolling, keep coming back with other names. No matter what anyone does, they will always be here, unless they shut down the forum! People will be people, and those that want the attention are like little kids....they will do ANYTHING they can to get it. Like those I mentioned before.

I think almost everyone has tried to get this place back on track. But, unfortunately, you have those that can delete the forums they want to, and keep the ones that they want as well. And when those people aren't helping a whole lot, we have a real problem.

I do agree with Jas though. I come in here and then leave again, because it's usually all crap threads and such. It's getting pretty pointless. And when there is a good thread, people ruin it as fast as they can, to make everyone else mad!!! But, oh well, people will be people!!

~Wen~

[old jong]

There is also that "club" flavor many find here.There are people we like to simply chat with,tease and maybe simply enjoy their virtual company. I think that making this place a second cyberkwoon would kill that feeling in no times.I dont want to feel like in a church or public library, where you just can't have a laugh or make some noise because some srarecrow moderator will ban you on the spot!
Many times.OT threads are a great place to enjoy some kung fu "camaraderie" and I feel they should be tolerated provided the are acceptable for all.

[DelicateSound]

I don't really consider this place as a commercial venue. It's always been KungFu Online to me, and always will. I don't buy KungFu Magazine or anything from MartialArtsMart. I buy whichever magazine I like on the shelf, and get my equipment from my local dealer who I know personally.

The reason I come here is because there are like-minded people here who I can talk to, learn from and maybe educate. I like this. There are people on this board who share a similar sense of humour to me, and its a laugh. There are people here who have taught me something great, like Merryprankster, WushuChik and JFSpringer [mainly via e-mail to avoid spamming]

Its a shame there is so much trolling, flaming and abuse. Its so easy to do when you're 1000 miles away hiding behind a screenname, but it really is unnecessary.

I came here mainly to learn, sometimes to laugh. I end up spending 90% of my time adding people to my ignore list......

[jaz1069]

I think that both you and Wushu Chik are on the right track. No one is looking for another cyber kwoon, and I enjoy the loose atmosphere and off topic posts, it's almost "Cheers" like.

My main contention is just that there is a time and a place for foolishness. I just wanted to get a feel for where the people that post here want to see this forum go. As many have pointed out, a post by Ralek automatically gets 300 reads and just as many responses.
Has anyone here actually met Ralek? it would be funny if he was just some 12 year old kid sitting at a Commadore-64 causing everyone so much stress and irritation.

As to the idea of multiple user names...it is possible to screen users by i.p. number so only one screen name can be used per computer. I don't know if they do that here but it might help.

[Ryu]

If this many people feel so strongly about it, maybe its time for a more drastic change.

Ryu

[DelicateSound]

Originally posted by jaz1069
It's almost "Cheers" like.

"Where everybody knows your screenname........"

[DelicateSound]

Originally posted by Ryu
If this many people feel so strongly about it, maybe its time for a more drastic change.

Ryu

No way!

All it needs is to ban the trolls, free up the humour and let the good times roll.....

[Fu-Pow]

The thing I like about Cyberkwoon is that they have a General Discussion forum, so all those people that want to shoot the breeze and tease each other or whatever can go there. There is a Kung Fu forum specifically for talking about kung fu and martial arts. There are things that I don't like about Cyberkwoon as well.
It just seems that their is a contingent of people on this forum who want to use it as a place to air their opinions no matter what the topic. There is another contingent that genuinely wants to discuss MA's. Until the managment does something about separating those contingents there will continue to be conflict.

[DelicateSound]

If there is a thread I like, irrelevant of its subject, I'll post. However - I post my own serious threads on the specialist boards. Problem is that I only get Wing Chun people or Southern Style etc. posting.

Its a shame. Main board = troll board = me p!ssed off.

The irrelevant humour is OK, its doing no harm. What p!sses me off is when someon posts a serious question and it gets flamed in seconds, before anyone gets chance to answer the real question.

[wushu chik]

Ryu...what kind of "drastic change" are you thinking about?? I am interested because this is all getting pretty old!

~Wen~

[DelicateSound]

During my active socialist days, I used to post over at "Che-lives".

What they did there was to have a "GoodMembersOnly" board, where you had to make 50 posts without trolling or flaming before you could post there, and it was ZeroTolerance. One flame and you could never post in that room again.

It really worked - and was a great board.

It probably wouldn't work here though. This place is WAY too commercialised, and the moderator over there was the most committed guy I've ever seen. No offence to KungLek and RM, but that guy cleared flames before they were posted!

[Bastet]

WHY doesnt KFO have a "general discussion / OT" forum?

I think this would solve a lot of the problems the board is experiencing at the moment. All topics that arent kungfu / MA related go into this forum, and get moved there by the moderators if they are posted elsewhere. This way the MA forums can be more effectively (and consistently) moderated, and people who dont want to bother with the fluff and hot air can avoid it by simply not going to the OT forum. The MA forums can be kept informative and relevant, while the OT forum would mean that KFO would keep the casual community atmosphere that we all love.

Ive been here for over two years and the troll thing does ebb and flow, but i think it is something we are going to have to get used to as the membership grows. I do agree though that if someone is repeatedly disrupting good threads, or causing or inflaming arguments (im not talking about useful debates) in the MA forums, they should be deleted and/or banned... no matter how amusing other people may find them. Of course, if we had an OT forum the moderation would be more lenient in that forum, and trolls would be tolerated more (to a point).

I dont agree with the "one username per IP address" idea, mainly because there are three of us in my household who use these forums under our individual names. It would solve some of the problems (im sure there a more than a few regular members with multiple names), but its not really practical.

anyway, think about it Gene...

[wushu chik]

Make an OT forum, and let me be the mod...i am about as lenient as you can get!!!

~Wen~

[nospam]

Whiners. The lot of ya.

As near as I can tell, the numbers around these parts continues to grow. There continues to be daily movement and there are many who 'leave' and then pop back a while later.

Sounds to me like the folks for profit are doing a fine job. The more traffic, the increased % even one of them clicks on an ad or orders something- the internet is about numbers and movement.

It's been said and said again, especially by the Mods - bless their martial artist souls - ya don't like, don't read; jump over a dumb reply; blank out the male peesing contests. The site isn't going to change, get used to it or move off. There'll be 3 more signing up and or returning before the sound of your shuffling feet becomes nothing more than an empty echo...

nospam.
:cool:

[KC Elbows]

I have to agree with Nospam. The moderators can't control all of us, and theres quite a few of us who, though we aren't trolls, have managed to be total jerks on a bad day. When I first started reading this forum, but wasn't yet posting, it was exactly like this, sometimes soap opera drama(or should I say kung fu opera?) and sometimes good kung fu talk. I see no change, except, now that we can ignore each other, we complain more about the annoying stuff.

Police ourselves, and let the moderators police what they need to, like profanity/just plain sick stuff. We can't exactly blame kung lek for our own conduct, and I'll be the first to mention that I have managed to be completely rude and unacceptable in posts that I have placed in the past. Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't think so.

And adults, when you're posting, and you feel that the direction the topic is moving in is about to get unacceptable, act as if your nephew/neice is in on the conversation, and steer it away from over the top, because, as we all know, some members here are children, chronologically. At least once in a while. Having read martial joes' topicless thread for a while(and participated), there is no way any of us should have felt surprised by its deletion after the conversation got out of hand, and Joe even asked that it not be deleted, a sure sign that he thought it might. It wasn't Joes fault, but if you were Kung Lek, which would be a better use of your time: deleting posts from a thread that is likely to repeatedly get out of hand, or just wipe the thread?

[David Jamieson]

To be honest KC, it's easier to pull the plug on the thread.

There is plenty of stuff on this board that justshouldn't be here, but hey, I can't spend all my time here. I spend a lot of time here to begin with and frankly it's overwhelming.

There is so much non relevant, useless stuff in here now, sifting through it has become a once a week thing with a no prisoners attitude.

Joe's threads are fine, but when 10 posts are talking pornography or some other such thing, it can't stay. This is a Kung Fu site not a death metal porn lets' talk about our personal vices site no mater how much everyone wants to tout free speech.

If you found your young son/daughter online exchanging some of this stuff you wouldn't be happy. Many wouldn't.

So many people are fine with anonymity, but at the same time many are "nimby" types.

I get 20 e-mails a week from members of this forum complaining about other members of this forum for something they said or a link they posted or whatever.

I get maybe one or two a month from members of this forum asking stuff about Kung Fu figuring I might know.

people do the darnest things!

By the way, nimby stands for "not in my back yard".

I'm all for free exchanges of ideas, especially regarding Kung Fu. I find a lot of the history of styles and stuff to be interesting, even though much of it is sketchy. I also know that many are bound to say nothing by their teachers. That's how Kung Fu is, some for you but not for that guy or that guy. And so it goes. It's to bad really and I still don't fully understand that position beyond the reasons to not teach bad guys, but then there are many bad people who have martial skill, so once again go figure.

Anyway, I'm rambling now, actually have been for a few paragraphs now. :)

So, I'll be taking the goofy stuff out according to the rules of the forum. And I'll be posting what stuff I can about Kung Fu. Let's hope everyone else does same.

peace

[KC Elbows]

I figured it was easier for you to burn the thread. I agree, we need to try to make it a majority kung fu. I'll do my best to limit my off topic stuff, and keep my on topic stuff non-confrontational. You do a good job, kung lek, don't let the complaints get you down.

[prana]

Being an 'x' martial artists, and not a very good one to begin with, I am guilty, a shopper to this forum.

I think Kung Lek's job is incredibly difficult, and bares much responsibility. And as far as I can see, Kung Lek, Gene, KFO are doing a tremendous jobs; albeit the odd censorship thingy, and if anything, I am adding to their headache with every of my lousy post...(including this)

My point is that I come here because I feel that there are many kind and excellent people here. My take is that we come in different shapes and sizes but we all breathe the same air, and so deserve respect. This is a great cross-way where east becomes close to west, and many of different cultures unite. I am primarily brought up the eastern way, and the mystical is not so mystical for me as it is say for some of our western friends.

I also am a regular at a few different forums, and this being one of the best, and the one I religiously come to, the only thing KFO does not have that many other forums have is an OFF-TOPIC discussion area, such as, asking each other programming questions, or sharing music, computer troubles, fun area.

Another thing I can see is that many people sometimes bring their anger onto the internet, and if that be a source for outlet, that is great (heheh I am thining of Turiyan, our Brahmin man. My bad). It is better than to have to take your anger to an IRC channel full of very disturbed people with no common interest only to be dumped into the dumps somemore. But at least, these people come with only minor jokes, and place to gain some happiness. And after all, isnt this what each and every one of us wants, just a plce to share, give, receive and ultimately, be that little bit happier ?

Let me give an example, the internet is funny because people forget that these nick names are humans behind them. But when two people on this board meet, as they have, they instantly treat each other with newfound respect. Some come from a difficult, more hostile background, others from a happier place. But we all want happiness...

- My Unworthy 2 cents -

[JasBourne]

"The site isn't going to change, get used to it or move off. "

That is the saddest thing I've heard so far.

Gene, pay your board moderators so they will actually moderate. Otherwise, you're tossing your $$$ down the cybertoilet and running an online daycare center at your company's expense.


Have fun. y'all. My money is green and I can spend it in nicer places.

[DelicateSound]

JasBourne - I agree this place is becoming a creche for lonely little boys, but don't knock Kung Lek and RM, they struggle hard against the tide of sh!t.

I actually pay nothing to come here [free Net and I never buy anything off the net, or KFM] so I'm OK.

Maybe we need to talk about something other than:

*Ralek
*General Trolling
*KF vs BJJ
*MMA tourneys
*Challenges
*The sh!tness of this board :D

[JasBourne]

"don't knock Kung Lek and RM, they struggle hard against the tide of sh!t. "

No. They don't. There wouldn't BE a tide of sh!t if they made and carried out the hard decisions right off the top. Banning Ralek alone would clean up 50% of the noise here instantly.

I've been a forum moderator. You ARE the thin blue line, you DO have to make the tough calls, and you DO have to be the bouncer at the door. If you are doing the job just to have people like you, you are not doing the job.

Here's the bottom line: This place is run by a for-profit business as a way to attract customers. If you don't think of martialrtsmart.com as YOUR MA supply provider, it's because TC Media, the company that foots the bill for the forum, is doing a lousy job with their investment in it.

TC Media is not in the business of altruism, they are not paying for this forum out of the goodness of their hearts - it is a business marketing strategy, and it's ROI has got to be magnitudes of degree less than what it should be. If I ran TC Media, the marketing director would be called on the carpet for the way this resource is being squandered.

The caliber of people who come here is for the most part extraordinary. The degree of quality associated with this forum is plummeting. The caliber of people who remain is underwhelming. That is lousy turnaround and retention. That is money down the cybertoilet.

It makes me angry because it can be so easily fixed. Ok. I've said my piece, I really don't need to say anymore. Besides, I get paid a bucket of money to do corporate marketing strategy, any more professional advice and I'll have to generate an invoice.

[DelicateSound]

I guess. There are some great people on this board, many of who refuse to post 'cause of the tide of sh!t that is allowed to lap into every post.

Like I've said - during my socialist days I used to visit a great forum where sh!t was wiped before you could reply to it. Good thing was, decent humour was allowed to stay. Pretty good moderation. Anyway, Kung Lek and RM are decent guys, incompetant or not :D [if this gets edited....]

As for TC Media and the commercial aspect of this site, I never read the banners and never pay attention to adverts. Just the way I am.

You would think that the best way to increase profit would be to increase the number of true Martial Artists that are here. After all Ralek hardly needs a pair of Butterfly knives to practise Bot Cham Doe on his PlayStation does he. Real Martial Artists do.

Ah well, I'm not a corporate marketing adviser, so this is just IMHO. I'm off to listen to the rest of Californication. Man, Road Trippin is one sweet tune.........

[Ryu]

Wushu Chik,
My drastic change (and many may not like this) would be to ban Ralek and his IP address. He really doesn't bug me all that much, and I don't really respond to him at all, but if a great deal of posters don't post anymore I'd ban him. Also I'd immediately erase any threads linking pictures of pornography, disgusting pictures of dead bodies, etc. and ban the ones who had linked them without giving a second chance. First strike, and your out.
Sounds kinda harsh, but that's probably what I'd do.
And I'd try to keep the flaming down as well. No 8 page shouting matches.

Ryu

[David Jamieson]

There's only so much a dude can do.

Besides Jas, you've posted your fair share of pots calling the kettle black content.

There are plenty of people here who just simply cannot stay on topic.

Don't know about you, but I cannot be here 24/7/365 and I clear out what I can as the forum rules make the framework for me to clear it out.

Granted, the endless, troll thread from some members are a pain, but they are only a pain because people keep responding in droves to them.

Let em sink. I'll get to em or RM will get to them or someone will send me an e-mail asking me to get to it.

I do like the idea of getting money for coming here though :D
That would be great!!!

But Gene is generous guy and has given me some good stuff already.

I got my "Got Qi" shirt and I wear it with pride! hahahaha, I don't know anyone who has one of those yet.

Anyway, only you can prevent forest fires.

peace

[nospam]

*sniff*

Stop it now. I'm starting to get all watery-eyed...

nospam.
:o

[Jockwurst]

The problem with banning individual trolls is that everyones' definition of a troll varies. We probably all agree that rolls/ralek is a troll but what of the many other induvid's who lurk around here in less formal attire? My definition of a troll is anyone who does NOT practice some form of CMA and hangs around here to start sh!t. Most of the grappling/bjj posters come to mind. Honestly I can't imagine any other reasons why these bozos would want to hang around on a KF forum other than the fact that they enjoy starting crap with the CMA posters. We do have some CMA posters that have rubbed many of us the wrong way. I know that Sifu Abel is labled a troll by many but he is a CMA pract. and most of the flaming poosts he has been in involved a grappling/bjj guy. Knifefighter, for example, constantly disses CMA and does nothing on this board but claim renown for himself undeer a faceless tag with his exploits in supposed "cage matches" that can never be verified as he will not reveal who he is. I like many other of thwe respondents to this thread do not post on this forum any more. I do post a little on cyberkwwon and e-budo at times. I dont mind the heavy moderation because the only time you notice it is if you try to post a blatantly flaming/dissresectful post
My advice to return this place to civility would be to ban all the non CMA posters and make a seperate grappling/bjj forum for them. As soon as one of them came over here and poated something like "(insert name) I challenge you to a match here in (insert place) so you can test your Kung Fu skills..." I would spike it quicker than a bolt of lightening. Let them post the challenge on their own forum where only they give a **** about it and we can all ignore it. All those that whine about the "openes and variety" of the disscussion around here being lost I garantee are some of the contributors to the crap. :o

[Ryu]

My advice to return this place to civility would be to ban all the non CMA posters



That gets rid of me as well.

Ryu

[guohuen]

Is the Bok Choy supposed to be diced or jullienned? Oh! Sorry, wrong forum!
he he he!

[Colin]

I just thought i'd raise the point that it would be difficult if not impossible to remove a troll on the basis of their IP address.
Surely most isp's use the same or similar methods of IP assignment as mine.
ie. the isp I currently use assigns a dynamic IP each time I dial up to them. Now my previous ISP (which charged a bit more) assigned a fixed IP, so every time I logged on, my local and remote adresses remained the same.
However most ISP's (in the UK anyway) use dynamic IP's as it is significantly cheaper and less wasteful than to designate a specific IP to each client.

colin........

[wushu chik]

Ryu..I do agree with you on many of your points. I don't think that getting rid of everyone but CMA people is the way to go, because we wouldn't get all the different aspects of OTHER martial arts.

But, I do feel that there should be a "Strike" Law....Ralek, he's struck out so many times, he should be banned from the net period! And all the other little b@stards that keep talking crap...they should be gone too. It can't be hard to ban them. And, I know that the mods can NOT OK a new user. They should take a little extra time (sorry kung lek) and try to clean up the crap!

Just my humble opinion

~Wen~

[DelicateSound]

Maybe [in a paradox of Chelives] we should have a rule where known trolls can only post on a General Discussion/Troll board.

Then you could decide. Minimal hassle.

[rubthebuddha]

banning an IP address would not work, as i changed mine a good 30 or 40 times yesterday trying to get my darned new web cam to work. takes aout ten seconds from your start menu on a cable modem.

anyhoo, one thing we all need to consider is that this is a FORUM -- a body of lots of people who offer their perspectives. honestly, as much as i can't stand ralek for what he's doing to this board, he has raised some pretty subtle questions about our own arrogance and skills. consider ralek to be the zoo exhibit. if we feed him good stuff, he'll grow into something healthy. if we feed him crap, he'll be unhealthy and crabby. and if we taunt him, he's going to poop in his hand and throw it at us.

nuff said? not nearly.

it's our own job to do this thing right. a forum rests on the shoulders of forum members. i have a jackson that says gene doesn't have the money to pay kung lek and renegade monk -- unless you're newsweek or sports illustrated, the publication business is far from greatly profitable. and we all know how lucrative the online industry has been lately. so it's our job. that doesn't mean we all need to assume moderator or cybernannyator (good one, kung lek :)) status and nazi-fy this board. instead, we should post good stuff as we can, get off topic on random issues on occasion, and just be good forum participants. we should freaking thank gene for putting the forum up, and thank kung lek and renegade monk for their efforts as well. if this board all of a sudden takes off in a huge way with all sorts of money pouring in, then gene can rethink this and maybe even throw some scratch toward his moderators. until then, maybe they'll have to survive on gratitude.

thanks, gene, kung lek and renegade monk!

okay. off the soapbox. and no, i'm not perfect. i've fed the trolls a twinky or two and i'm paying for it along with the rest of you guys.

so let's all think about at least one discussion that'd be appropriate for this forum this week and post it. if we all do at least one, that'd be at least (counting on fingers) 8,938,126.

oh wait. gene, is that number right?

[Xebsball]

Ryu,

this is not really relevant to this thread but Eagle Claw was last taught in military in WWII in Hong Kong/China from what ive heard, so if the person you fought was not an old chinese man... so i guess he was not eagle claw at all :D

[Ryu]

He was tall and white LOL

I suspected he's probably been a fibbin' anyway. :)

Ryu