GoldenBell?

[Yung Apprentice]

How does the training differ from iron body? Isn't goldenbell similar except it's meant for your whole body, including the head?

[Yung Apprentice]

"verbose" AHA! I learnt me a knew werd!:D

[No_Know]

My comprehension, Golden Bell is the result of a simultaneous practice of two Defensive Kung-Fus.

Ironbody? just a name~. Supposedly it includes the chest whatever else. Golden Bell does not include the chest.

[Repulsive Monkey]

... the complete coverage of the body including strengthening Wei Qi to make the body impervious.

[Yung Apprentice]

From what little I knew, it sounds more like what repulsive monkey said.

[Leonidas]

Whats up Yung. Heres the breakdown, Iron Body/Vest is a weaker form of Golden Bells. It also can potentially shorten your life because it uses your bodies chi reserves to build protection from strikes. It only lasts for a few strikes and then it breaks. The flip side is it can help you survive a car crash or the like. Golden Bells on the other hand seeks to fill your body with chi using chigong, meditation, herbs etc... So it's stronger and safer. It makes your body impervious to more strikes but it doesn't last forever either. Just long enough to end the fight and lets you walk away unharmed

[IronFist]

It only lasts for a few strikes and then it breaks.

So you better not ever "test it out," eh?


Just long enough to end the fight and lets you walk away unharmed

So then you have to start all over?

These are serious questions btw.

Iron

[Leonidas]

I'd say that it's not wise to "test it out" full force with Iron Body and then try to build it up again. It's only for emergencies really and since you use your own chi reserves, you might shorten your life by many years. Golden Bells on the other hand will probably last several full force strikes without any real damage and you wont have to start from scratch if you tell your training partner to go easy. After all you just want to see if its working properly, not have a full on fight. I saw this info on a couple sites (dont recall which though) devoted to Qiqong so i didn't just pull it outta my a$$

[friday]

u know where i can learn this golden bell in australia?

what do u think goldne bell comapres with the yang mian steel body steel hands arsenal

[jon]

From what i know of golden bell you would be VERY lucky to find anyone willing to take you though that kind of training in this day and age. A big part of the training for example revolves around massage and slowly rolling particular objects like balls and rollers around the body and rib cage. The training is long slow and contains mainly chi gung and loads and loads of meditation. For a sifu to do it with you would require them to pretty much make a full time commitment to you alone for a period of no less than five years. In short dont count on it!

The real high levels of it involve softly striking your eyeballs to incourage a film of skin to grow over them and attaching heavy objects to your testicles... Still interested?

You can achive a basic grade by just doing a lot of standing and seated meditation[must be still] and a lot of good qigung.



errr P.S i will not be held responsible for anyone who strikes there eyes or ruins there groin by attempting high level gold bell practice:D Dont try this at home kids!

[friday]

wow
sounds great!!! can't wait till i find a sifu who can teach me that
lol

;)
dun worry guys just kidding
thanks jon that was helpful i will be staying clear away from that

[jon]

"sounds great!!! can't wait till i find a sifu who can teach me that"
Well if you do, you know who to tell dont you;) I cant wait to hang things from myself and have the extreamly usefull skill of eyes that cant be poked:cool:
The one thing i never got about Gold Bell is this...
You spend half your life training to be able to take rediculous hits without feeling pain. Wouldnt it just be better to put the effort into getting enough skill to avoid the blows in the first place:rolleyes: Its almost like an ego thing:)
Watch me take hits to the groin full force muhahahhaha.
I guess when your a monk your not to worried about your sex life
:D

[friday]

comn jon lol
u gotta make some sacrifices sometimes and it will all be worth it

butttt to repeat again
anyone know anything about yang mian system?

[Yung Apprentice]

Does everyone agree here on what Leonidas said about iron body? I really don't know that much about iron body, but if it's true what he said, then I won't be practicing it. Is there a safer way of practicing iron body? In case one does not have the resources to learn goldenbell.



Leonidas, to your knowledge does iron palm and iron fist have the same effect as iron body? Using reserve chi. If so, then is there an advanced form of those two techniques?

[Leonidas]

Its similiar but meant for 2 different things. Some Iron Fist training is real simple. they basically just desensitize your hand and the constant striking helps to build a thick layer of skin. The next level would involve using Dit da Jow. The Dit da Jow (hit wine) allows your hands to heal keeping them soft and callous free, but accomplishes the same thing. I'm not all that familiar with it, maybe someone can elaborate on that. Some Iron Fist training does teach you to lead your Chi to your hands allowing you to strike as hard as possible without injuring yourself. I think this is the method found in some Internal Martial Arts. That along with proper body mechanics makes the strike more powerful. In Internal MA you wont have to worry about using chi reserves since your doing chi gong anyway. All you have to do is learn how to lead it to different areas in your body.

[Daredevil]

I don't agree. The Iron Body stuff I've seen is hard, painful and is not going anywhere even if you're struck a few times. It's just conditioning, in the CMA sense. It's ridiculous, like saying a Thai boxers hardened shins are suddenly going to disappear in a fight.

I guess there's lots of myths floating around about Iron Body in general, probably because real exponents of it tend to be quite rare. Cross hands with one and learn.

[Leonidas]

I'm talking about using chi to build a defense, its not just beating on yourself to make a thicker skin. Its not the same as being desensitzed and calloused. The skin stays the same. Maybe you've seen something different from what i'm talking about. I'm not a Iron Body master and i've never even seen it except for frauds using circus tricks, but thats the definition.

[neptunesfall]

Iron Vest

Iron vest is a series of 24 exercises starting at 36 reps to 72 and as high as 108 (not necessarily recommended). It is done once per day for at least two years, at which time it can be done several times a week for the rest of your life. It is time consuming, as when you reach 72 reps, you will consume approx. one and a half hours per day.

Bohdaruma brought the exercises to China from India at the same time he began teaching Buddhism to the Shaolin monks. The monks would die at an early age, middle 40's, as the result of their spending many hours per day meditating in a lotus position, which caused loss of circulation to the lower extremities of the body, and strokes were the result of their endeavor.

All of the benefits of this program are not known, the movements cause the internal organs to be massaged, and this benefit alone can result in various results depending on the individual's own state of health.

After approx. two years of training, one can withstand tremendous punishment to every part of the body except the neck, head, and groin. However, the health benefits are just as, if not more important.

Chinese herbs must be taken to get the best results for the first 100 days of the program.

taken from http://www.shuaichiao.com

there's only one sentence i'd like to focus on, really - "However, the health benefits are just as, if not more important."
proper iron vest meditations do not lessen your lifespan. to do something like that would be an extremely foolish endeavor, especially for the purposes of survivial.

[GOLDEN ARMOR]

I heard that HUNG GA has golden bell or at least the small golden bell. PAK MEI has got the small &more advanced large golden bell i was told. A friend of mine knows a guy who trains private lessons with Marko Vesse in the YANG MIAN SYSTEM. He only sees him once in awhile, he was telling my mate that he was doing steel body & the technique he was doing at that time was for the back. It's called turtle shell, of course they do the rest of the body as well. Their also meant to have really fast punches,it's called spring power, their meant to get you doing 9 punches in 1 second by 1 year. Yang Mian has got a web site but cant remember the adress, if you are interested do a search if you can't find it post a reply. I am sure i will be able to find it again & i will post it.

[Leonidas]

You seem to be talking about chi gong similiar to Golden Bell. The training i'm talking about leads the chi around instead of building it.

[dezhen2001]

from what i know of Hard Qigong (i've only started learning it), it works by developing the Bone, Muscles and Skin. There are a lot of exercises which develop and gather Qi at the dantien, and in the 'bones'. Then you do a lot of conditioning to strengthen the muscles and skin. Of course to balance Meditiation is very important also. It takes a long time to build up the skill.
First of all you develop for health, as it is still Qigong, but it is also for martial arts.

I've also done Muay Thai before and Western Boxing. The conditioning feels totally different than when doing hard qigong. Maybe it's the breath control? I dunno :p

david

[dezhen2001]

but then again, i guess there are many types of hard qigong/iron shirt/golden bell, so they may have different methods of cultivation...

david

[dezhen2001]

Hung Gar has the 'tit sin kuen pai', which is the iron-wire boxing form. I don't study hung gar, but i think it is meant to condition the body and develop Qi etc. maybe one of the more knoweledgable guys can tell you? :)

david

[Yung Apprentice]

One of the Hsing-Yi schools here teach both iron palm and iron body. ( I don't think they teach iron fist, but then agian I don't know )

[CrushingFist]

i'd like to concentrate on the statement someone made about only a few hits and then you are vulnerable.

chi does NOT leave your body unless you A) use a punch or kick or whatever attack and let the chi go out, or B) sex.

THe point of iron and golden armors and vests and bells and whatnot, is to move the chi to wherever is being struck so that it hardens that part of the body, a few hits is not going to destroy your chi inside, unless those hits have a lot of chi inside of them, otherwise, you can take a whole lot of hits.


get what im saying? it's my opinion, but i think mine is correct.

I also don't like the idea of "chi reserves" the body does not have reserves, it doesn't store chi in little packets somewhere, it all flows around, you have more or less chi, but not X amount of reserves.

[SevenStar]

"chi does NOT leave your body "

I think you miss what he's saying. As someone else pointed out, the chi pushes past your body, forming a layer outside of it. That layer can't be sustained forever, and dissipates after a few strikes. That's my take on it.

"THe point of iron and golden armors and vests and bells and whatnot, is to move the chi to wherever is being struck so that it hardens that part of the body"

I don't think I agree with that either. In a fight, you're not gonna have time to lead your chi to every part being struck before it gets struck - you won't be able to anticipate that and fight at the same time. The point of it is to fortify your body so that it can take strikes at any time.

[S.Teebas]

butttt to repeat again
anyone know anything about yang mian system?


Yeah, i have a friend i used to train with who was about instructor level. His hands were VERY solid, would cause alot of pain if hit. He used to go home and break concreet slabs in the afternoon. And his steel shirt was also pretty impressive. I kinda didn't believe in it when he told me...but a few demos later. Well it real leathal that system!

You thinking of starting in it?

[friday]

well... yes...i was interested in starting it for two particular reasons

faster recovery from injury and less likelihood of being injured.
i have thought about doing it to supplement my current knowledge.

[diego]

have you heard about hungga and lama exchanging skills??

[Yung Apprentice]

Diego, what are lama exchange skills? I'm also looking into hung ga.

[xiong]

I don't really know anything about Iron Palm or Iron Body, but I do know that Wing Lam has a few videos on the topic on his web site.

Also If I recall correctly Gene had an article praising his Iron Body training when he walked away from a fender bender in China.

This was before Gene wrote for KFQ I think.

[dezhen2001]

guohuen - a very good and simple explanation. Made sense to me :)

i'm really just starting to learn now, so don't really know that much theory etc. But the idea from what i have seen is that after a long period of practising, you don't have to 'prepare' to take a blow. When hit your body automatically 'boots up' and uses the qi to protect it......(?)

david

[dezhen2001]

hi guohuen,

i have only been training in hard qigong for around 9 months now, and have found it to be very benificial to my health, as well as martial arts. Right now i am training all the Yang (outside) parts of my body (stomach, upper back, head, chest....) and it's very hard. I have seen my Sifu and Sigong do demonstrations, and the skill is very good. I can see from the training that their bodies have become very 'dense' for want of a better word. But i think that is because they have been training for an extended period of time (?). I have also seen some other methods of Iron Shirt training, and ours seems to be different from those (?). I don't know how you train, but would like to discuss it more. Perhaps you could PM me, or email and we could talk further?

thanks,
david :)

[dezhen2001]

oh - and i know what you mean about doing some breathing before you take a blow! Perhaps a hundred or so would be best :D but unfortunately in a fight there is no time. Best to move out of the way :D

david