kicking while entering

[KC Elbows]

Anyone know what kicks work well while entering? I'm trying to incorporate more kicks into my regimen.

[David Jamieson]

entering what?

do you mean on the offensive? opening shots?

peace

[apoweyn]

kc elbows,

any kick that doesn't significantly alter your posture will do. something that doesn't require changing the alignment of your upper body or committing your hips too much.

if you kick high, then your upper body often leans back a little. perhaps a lot (depending on style, flexibility, etc.) it will then take longer to bring your hands to bear on the opponent, because your foot has to travel all the way down to the floor and your upper body has to travel all the way back forward before you're in punching range again.

similarly, if you use a kick that has a lot of hip commitment, your rear hand cannot be brought to bear as quickly. you're more limited in your followup.

both of these are obviously not lasting considerations. but if you're kicking specifically as an entry (as opposed to doing big damage), to my mind, it's better to keep them low and less committed. good targets might be the groin, knee, or shin.

low snapping front kick, oblique (or cross) kick, or a sort of less committed round kick (i've heard this referred to as a 45-degree kick, as you aren't turning your hips over, just sort of smacking the opponent to divert their attention).

the other nice thing about the low-line kicks is that some opponents will drop their hands to block them. not all, but some.


stuart b.

[apoweyn]

i'm assuming by an 'entering kick', you mean a kick designed less to do damage and more to create an opening to get into a closer range. yeah?

[Golden Arms]

I think this vary a LOT based on the individuals' kicking skills..but some good tips I have gotten in the past are things like: kicks to the knee or thigh and lower are fairly easy to pull off without the other person seeing it, but make sure to keep moving and not to look at the area you are kicking for a long time before you do it (more than a passing glance is a long time in my book). Also, if you are going for something to the ribs or around that level, try to set it up unless you are lightning fast, or you risk getting it caught, or better yet, having a takedown executed on you...my motto for almost everything is just to practice a lot, and you will find out what works best for you at any particular place and time. Just my 2 Golden Taels..

-Golden Arms-

[Sharky]

this is how you get taken down

[KC Elbows]

By entering, I meant while getting into close range, and I was talking low kicks. Thanks for the suggestions so far. Do others agree with sharky that kicking while entering is a bad idea?

[Ray Pina]

When entering, I look at it more like stepping, or stomping, on them then kicking, only after the hands are touching, do I really consider it a kick, because then I'm looking for the kill. Kicks are for kill shots, ending it.

When entering I want to take their space, and, well, if my 200lbs just happen to transfer to my front foot at that moment, and my front foot happens to be going into your ankle or shin, well, so be it ...

I'll return kicks though early in. Say I'm left foot forward and you give me a round house to my left with your right. I just go in and kick your supporting leg. I'll take a roundhouse across my back (stepping in and turning with my lower kick to the supoort leg disperses A LOT of energy). I think I gain a position advantage here, and, again, this is not a TKD roundhouse, but a full on right through the suporting leg. They will go down.

When I go to the outside gate, if hands are engaged, then I'll go for the low side kick to either the immediate or opposite leg of the guy.

[fmann]

In a fight where you are squared off a single opponent, where both of you have your hands up and know you are in a fight, I agree that if the opponent knows ground work, he can take you down if you throw a high kick or a midlevel kick depending on the height difference.

Low level kicks are usually okay, aimed for the mid section or legs. If he tried to take you down on that, he'll eat a kick or knee to the head.

[Wu Wei]

kicking while entering close range?
I think this is very good idea if you can keep your balance while doing it.
It closes the gap very quickly. If you are good at kicks, your opponent gets taken off guard.
The danger is obviously in the large movement. You're doing a lot of movement in a small time span so if your opponent sees it coming your out of luck.

[DelicateSound]

I think a round or front kick to the thigh/knee is great. I use front kick to kneecap as one of my main self-defence moves. It only takes about 40 pounds of pressure to break/dislocate a knee joint, and my weight is 170. See!!!

It's also a great way to move in for close range fighting, and on an untrained opponant can distract him [the amount of times a guy'll look at your feet], allowing an easy entry into punching. Not too high though.

[LEGEND]

fake a kick to the groin then attack...or side kick to the shin then attack. any kicks that doesn't impede your forward movement!

[Mantis9]

I know that this goes against conventional wisdom. High kicks can work well for entering. This is my reasoning:

Let's assume for the sake of arguement that the practioner is a decent to excellent kicker (gasp, possibly a TKD practioners). First, as an entering kick you have the advantage of initiation. As we all know, action wins out against reaction every time, so barring the excusion of a terrible delivered kick or kicking an opponent well over 8 ft. tall the kicker has the advantage (remember this is a good kicker).

Second, an entering kick doesn't have to follow with a hand strike or grappling move, it could be another kick. Staying balanced and retracting your kick can keep the threat in the opponents mind alive, which spreads his/her attention. Therefore he/she must either choose to defend a suspected follow-up attack or slow their reaction to cover all threats.

Its all in the eye of the beholder.

Another point:

My sihing is an adept kicker. While sparring myself or other brothers, he would kick us repeatedly from all angles. I would spend too much effort trying for take downs against him that I would become vunerable to being jumped on and punched, while completely open, because he would "give" me his leg to grab.

I was inexperienced. He took advantage of it. Anyway, an entering high kick can also be a decoy.

Oh, well. Just kick him in the knee.

[nospam]

I like to go by the KISS rule, so a simple low snap kick. If you want to practise and experiment, which I highly recommend, then do everything you can think of. It will teach you what and when things have a high percentage of working.

Generally speaking, I rarely kick. It's all in the hands, baby. My feet are for getting me where i want to go.

nospam.
:cool:

[Wu Wei]

KISS rule?
Pardon my ignorance, but please elaborate.
Unless it involves platform shoes and make-up I'm lost.

[Tvebak]

In Xingyi the only kick (i think) is aimed at stomping on the opponents foot, i always meant that this was just a distraction untill i saw a video with Masaaki Hatsumi using a similair technique. Many people argue that stepping on the toes is not effective because he will be vearing shoes, it may not hurt so much but You can still destroy his balance if you use it along with punches.

[nospam]

KISS

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

nospam.
:cool:

[JasBourne]

Wing chun has a simple principle for closing the gap, and many of the strategies that apply include hard low kicks in concert with forward movement, deflection/setup and strike. A low kick is defined as anything below the waist, and is really the only necessary type of kick.

While high kicks can be powerful, dramatic, and can contain a very effective degree of surprise, if your aim is to close the gap quickly, enter close combat range, and neutralize your opponent in as short a time as possible, then the extra everything involved in a high kick is detrimental. Why waste time putting your feet where your hands already are?

:cool:

[DelicateSound]

As someone once said:

Kicking to the head is like punching to the shins.

Bruce Lee I think. Anyway - enough of my crap.

[yuanfen]

JasBourne- Not necessarily would many wing chun groups kick
to enter- atleast not as a strategy worked out in advance, because it could be a good way to end up on the floor.

Delicate Sound: Lots of folks attribute many things to Bruce Lee
prematurely. (I dont know your source)
In any case back in 1975- its in his first book on the sil lim tao,
Augustine Fong:
"I dont punch your toes, why do you want to kick me in the head?"".

[DelicateSound]

Thats because Bruce spoke in that husky voice and no-one could understand him. His manager edited his comments to make him seem more intelligent :rolleyes:

I know - It probably wasn't Bruce. You see my point though?

[yuanfen]

Delicate Sound-

yes