wing chun and Choy lay fut

[Stacey]

These two styles have a long history together. For better or worse, they are intimately connected through along rivalry that has made a large impact on both arts.

Wing Chun sifus are always quick to mention that they beat up a guy that did Choy Li Fut. I haven't heard the opposite, but I'm sure its there as well.


Where did this rivalry/gang warfare begin? How did it begin. Is it stupidly still around? These two styles have a lot of history together as traditional rivals, it seems that in the modern era there might be more comradery based on the dual history.

My personal thoughts are that CLF is the more vast. Wing Chun is quicker to learn. CLF has all the same stuff plus more. But given the retention of a school and number of high level practitioners, it makes sense that they might be pretty tied.

Can someone enlighten me? Am I really far off base?

[anton]

This rivalry did exist and still exists in the minds of those who were around when the rivalry was at its peak. Just like other inter-style conflicts, each side will probably blame the other accusing them of being arrogant troublemakers. I think there is a little bit of info about the CLF/WC rivalry on the laceys' web pages:
http://www.pantherfist.com/
http://www.buksing.com/

[Rolling_Hand]

Stacey,
--CLF has all the same stuff plus more...

Here, there's a CLF master, Richard Leung who had once KO the Wing Chun legend Bill Cheung in HK. But even Richard Leung wanted to learn Wing Chun - though it's hard to understand it for some people. Helpful advice may not be to your liking, but it's constructive.

[RAIN]

stacey

you got to contact www.ngfamilymartialarts.com
there is phillip ng . he is a mastef in choy lay fut and wing chun .
he is really a open mind guy and a great friend in this forum .
nobody better than him to answer your dudes .

personaly , i think we are not the people from the past . we are in a new age and a new century . we got to take our own point of view about everything .
all southern styles are great and is a curse that we can't learn all . because we live only 80 years .
i believe in friendship not in nonsense fight .

[once ronin]

the feud start in the 1950's. it involved tam saa and wong shun leung. some one had a movie back then of it.

[iron_silk]

interesting...this reminds me of when I was reading a Bruce Lee biography, it mentioned when he was young and was learning Wing Chun, and contanstly had duels with students of CLF schools.

Yet it is really dependant on the individual that makes the style useful.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Southern stylist have these cat fights all the time. It's like back in the old days farmers from different villages argue with one another.

You don't see this with Northern styles. Most practitioners are skilled in a number of styles anyway because they're all competible.

Whereas CLF and Wing Chun apply different theories. Both have barked up the wrong tree. (different tress though I might add)

[alecM]

The one thing I can honestly say about you Ego is that you are never afraid to share your ignorance.

[Jimbo]

You don't see rivalry between northern styles? Whatever. I for a fact have seen petty hatred and criticism between elderly northern masters, even within substyles of the same system.

Jim

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Jimbo,

The rivery you speak of in northern schools is between certain individuals rather than style vs styles that is prevalient in Southern schools.

[straightblast5]

Rain,

Thanks for your compliments (but I would hardly call myself a master of anything). Also, thanks for recommending my site. Please look for my upcoming articles in the March/April issue of KungFu/Qigong magazine. It should hit the stands in a few weeks.

Stacey,

Having experiences with both Choy Lay Fut and Ving Tsun (Wing Chun), I can surmise that much of the rivalry between the two methods was due in part to their conceptual and structural differences. Such differences gave material for practitioners of each style to poke fun at the other. I think mutual success also made each a bit bitter at the other, as both methods were rather successful in Hong Kong during the 60s and 70s (in and out of the ring). However, many notable instructors from both circles today generally respect each other.

Nevertheless, the above is simply my assumption. To more accurately gauge the reasons and origins of this rivalry would probably involve a much more in depth historical, sociological, and anthropological study to put in context the cultures and events surrounding the relationship between each method’s practitioners. However, I feel such an undergoing would be of no point, as I feel both methods are merely different means to the same goal. It is important to keep in mind that no matter what the Ving Tsun or Choy Lay Fut practitioners think of each other, the technical and conceptual aspects of each fighting method is more important to the student than any piety rivalry.

So when taken from this perspective, I think the argument shifts from “style vs. style” to “which style contains the arsenal and the concepts that will work for me, the individual”.

Phil
Ng Family Chinese Martial Arts Association (http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com)

[yuanfen]

Someone said:
My personal thoughts are that CLF is the more vast. Wing Chun is quicker to learn. CLF has all the same stuff plus more. But given the retention of a school and number of high level practitioners, it makes sense that they might be pretty tied.

Can someone enlighten me? Am I really far off base?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Way off in your wing chun statement. These kind of comparisons are usually based on incomplete knowledge of one style or both.
But why debate these things unless there is a clear context.

[yuanfen]

That rivalry does not have the same edge today. Lots of friendships involved. Thus Augustine Fong of Wing Chun has good relationships with Doc fai Wong of CLF and Poo Yee of SPM.

[Stacey]

PHilip Ng?

I saw your article in Kungfumagazine. The one with like 5 wing chun articles. I must say that yours was the coolest. Your pretty cute too. I think the highlights are really working for you. Assuming your not half scandinavian and it shows in weird ways. Your article was one of the best in the magazine. So many pictures! Great applications. I liked the fists to the groin from the guard it really summed up your statement that your not fighting other people's game, your playing your own.

Its cool that your on the forum, I thought it was mostly yahoos like myself. Keep up the good work.


Sifu Phil, How old are you?

Your website is cool, do you do it or do you have an outside company do it?

[straightblast5]

Hello Stacey,

Thank you for your compliments. I'm really glad that you enjoyed my article. I also conducted the interview with Tommy Yuen Yim-Keung (my Si-Hing) in the same issue. It was tough, as I had to translate everything he said into English and keep true to the meaning of his words.

My "fight the person, not the style" article originally contained captions for each of the application sequences, but they were left out due to space constraints. However, I think the pictures themselves were pretty self-explanatory.

I'm glad you like our website, I actually design and maintain it myself. I guess my degree in design finally came in handy!

Thanks again for your compliments, it's always nice to hear that somebody found my writings interesting.

Phil Ng
Ng Family Chinese Martial Arts Association (http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com)

[Sow Choy]

Phil,

That's right you are handsome! Haven't got the KF Mag yet, but I'm sure it's great, anyway enough about kung fu.

When are you going to Hong Kong?!? I will be there end of March, you better be there! What happened to the plan???

Joe