hung ga jon & steve

[diego]

you guys think you could discuss, lama and hung ga longfists and tiger technique...your both chatbuddys, you both know hungga, its said hungga gm wong fei hung and hopga gm wongyanlam may have been peers, supposedly lama gave the longfists and hungga gave tiger technique, could you guys discuss similarity differances.....inherant, like the spm thread yall finished, please

or at least entertain my questions through pm
thanks, cuz i know you will:p

[jon]

From what i know which could very possibly be more legend than fact.
One of the 10 tigers was a Lama Ga expert and Wong Fai Hung was Wong Kai Yings son who was also a Tiger. Wong was taught lama ga and longfist techniques from the style and i would venture to say a lot of some of the elemental boxing in Hung is influenced by lama gar. My knowledge of this though im afraid is pretty limited, Steve may very well more.
One thing i do know is that my school and i would venture to say most Hung schools have a deep respect for Lama Ga its a powerfull system and has much in common with Hungs logic in terms of combat.
I would be a fool to try and tell you what exactly was shared becouse im simply not that sure.
My sigung even taught a little Lama Ga seperately to Hung, though exactly what his knowledge was im not sure, he mainly used it as an introduction. Ive been shown a few moves and it certainly fits in well with Hungs movement.
Plus when a lama ga guy starts swinging those malet fists you better start moving thats my best advice:D

[diego]

i have thebtiger/crane book by buksam khong, when i look at it i see a huge correlation ith my style, besides the fact ive been told by a senior of the deceased master who taught my style,i think the master may have done some work with ycwong in the early seventys, i know for sure the senior said the master had many good things to say about ycwongs hung,so

the tigercrane book,we have alot of that technique in what ive seen for my style,4instance,the side pivot catstance, and beak hand to temple,with a pecking/wingchun,garnsao"down/in2outside block" defensive hand,in the set you guys do two,in one of our kajukenbo/hopga sets, we have this but the first defensive hand is a lopsao outward grab and right beak to temple,then it switches and does the garn with the right and beak with the left,however its not in cat stance, we do it in our mantis stance"same as cat but lead foot rest on heel no-wieght with toes up"//adduction-heel stance.
whats the name? -chinese&english for your guys catstance/beaks!!.

could you write the chinese&english names of the element fists,and thier general applications,for my comparison,thanks
agian cuz i know you will:cool:

[diego]

SO YOU KNOW A RIGHT SIDE BOW IS LEFT HIP AND LEFT LEAD HAND FACE CENTER"most would think thats a leftside bow,but mentally its a right one"....


the tigercrane tiger claws..:
1-vs l straight:r palmup hand then r claw to face,in r cat stance or neutral horse stance.
2-2 claws in horse,in first chikung section;used as a twoclaw push to rib in r bow.
3-left forearm deflect and r sideclaw in left sidebowstance,switch and do on other side,vs a r straight.
4-In the second chikung section,in r side-horse and right index"hunghandsign??"block out agianst left straight,then shuffle into r bow and left sideclaw to abdomen.
5-Double block after hopping into it in r bow,deflect r front kick;
2 spear to eyes vs double horizontal fist to face;pull back shifting into r sidehorse then spring into r bow and two claw to collarbone.
6-vs l straight:you in l cat,double deflect to left side then spring into left bow and double claw to face and groin""IN MY STYLE ITS STATED WHENEVER DOING 2CLAWS,ALWAYS HAVE YOUR LEAD LEG AS THE CLAW ON THE BOTTOM FOR GREATER STRUCTURAL SUPPORT,YOU GUYS DO THE SAME??"
7-Theres a r bowstance left sweeping leg,2claw push,near the end....
multiple variations of the jutsao/sideclaw-8....
9- the last the r catstance r outward block,left smacking"myterm"claw to face.

[diego]

1-BHUDDA SPEAR:R bow-2spear to eyes,looks like praying to sun,motion is like clapping hands.

2-ANGRY TIGER PAWS SAND:r bow-two claws grip collarbone.

3TIGER/LEOPARD DBL FIST:r bow-2fists to eyes using second row of knuckles.

4-TIGER STEALS THE HEART: r bow,left horizontal punch to heart section.

5-CRANE GAURDS THE CAVE:r bow-r crown outward block and left chopthrusting palm to solar??.

6-DBLL TIGERS HEAD:r bow and double backfists to wreck the facial structure.

7-TIGER RAISES ITS HEAD:SINGLE UPPERCUT IN BOW OR SIDE HORSE...

8-FIREARROW FIST: rside horse and r vert fist to solar,or sidebow.

9-2 TIGERS STRETCH TO THE SUN:r bow and r uppcut pheonix to face and left pheonix wedge into solar.

10-TOSSING WAVE FIST: r sidebow and r sweeping horizontal fist to face or breakarm vs right, set up first with left block,and strike with right below tricep.

11-SQUEEZING WOOD PUNCH:r bow and right outward forearm deflect with simultaenuos left horizontal pheonix eye to solar.

12-TIGERSMOUTH FIST:r bow and two fist-r to groin/uppercut;left to face/horizontal.

13-SLEEPING TIGERS FIST:l sidebow and left outward fist block and simultaneous r horizontal fist to solar,similar to squeezing wood!!.

14-STRETCH PUNCH"""i need to know this name"": r bow and r ridgefist sweeps upper portion of opponent tripping them on your right thigh.

15-RAISING EARTH FIST:big uppercut in r sidebow left uppercut,rear/right hand mirrors the motion like longfist/trademark of lama"with the backhand as support".

16-TEN PATTERN SPLITS GOLD:SAME AS EARTHFIST IN THE SENCE OF BACKHAND MIRRORS,THIS ONE IS A:left sidehorse and left backfist to left and right to right.

17-HEAVEN PIERCING FIST:r bow,r roundhouse-fist inverted strike with the back of knuckles.

18-UPROOT TREE FIST:USES STANCES SUCH AS SIDEHORSE & TWIST:wipeing crown deflect and simultaneous uppercut.

19-DOUBLE TIGER'S PAWS: r bow and two fists to eyes with the index,just like pi fist.

some more names:
20-HOK CHUEY CHAM JANG/CRANE'S BEAK WITH SINKING ELBOW:
r cat stance right beak hooks in/down opponnent's elbow, while left beak peacks the temple.

21-DAN FU CHUT DONG/SINGLE TIGER COMES OUT CAVE: l cat and left inside hooking grip and stretch out a right claw to face.

22-DOK GOOK FEI HOK/SINGLE LEGGED FLYING CRANE:r downward cranewing deflect a left punch and right front nailkick groin.

23-YOW-SOW-PA-PAI/RIGHT "TIGER?" HAND BREAKING DOWN THE ROW'S:r sidebow and left outgrab and right side claw to face.

k, i spent a good hour on these last three posts,so this thread better build up on some good INFO!!!!

IF ANY1 ELSE WISHES TO JUMP IN AT ANYPOINT MUCH APPRECIATED!!!!
THIS THREAD IS STRICTLY LONGFISTS&TIGER CLAWS, IF ANY STYLES WISH TO SHARE THIER METHODS ,your welcome.
thanks...



:cool:

[diego]

the r sidehorse and r crown-outward deflect then flow into a r chop to neck,whats that called,
also could you point out in what i wrote wich is the wfh 1O KILLING HANDS, i have to find the article i read them in...
thanx

[Steven T. Richards]

Diego old Friend,

Good question, I think it depends on lineage. My Lion's Roar flows a lot more than my Hung-gar, so the similarities in structure are not there when mechanics/energy are considered.

I'm busy on the Mantis forum at the moment as Admin, so I'll probably have to contact you and Hung-gar Jon off-form -

Best Regards,

Steve.

[diego]

its what actually got me into my style,when i learnt my first form, my buddy showed me a hungga basic horse breathing exercise with the huhhuh HAIGHTE UOO,UNO PULL PALMS INTO HIPS THEN LIFT AROUND EARS-2INHALE,THEN SPEAR ""HHHAAIGHTE""
THEN SINK PALMS RELax uoooo,then do to the sides....well i loved it didnt really appreciatte my style, then i got into the whole wfh phase,luckily i started to get more info into harrywu-ngyimming now im all about hopga..

this thread, im going to cut and paste everything ive read,this is going to be a good thread, JUMP IN WHEN APPLICABLE, im building this as my personnall BINDER, gonna do it on the main forum cuz thiers more traffic,word its on,no more dillydally straight ontopic,its mho screw the rituals and routine politeness,some schools have cultural issues that i cant relate to,**** i had fun at expo86 dont care about politrixx

so mho is you dont sit outside of the temple waiting for dudes to speak all winter, if they gonna talk theyll talk, if not move on

many should use this attitude,for this forum, screw the dillydally;)

[jon]

Regarding specific tiger techniques.
There are several set movements in the pillar forms but other than those there is a LOT of variation.
Tiger is an attidude and style in itself following its own guidlines and methods. To try and catagorise it would be not only difficault but in the end futile. The basic techniques are designed to give us an insight into particualr theorys and methods so that we may then expand and contract them as we see fit. Many of the duel tiger techniques for example can be done one handed. Techniques can be combined to form new ones, its like a giant jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces could fit together in any way form a new pattern.
Would you like to tell us some more about what you have heard Hung Ga added to Hop Ga?

"could you write the chinese&english names of the element fists,and thier general applications,for my comparison,thanks
agian cuz i know you will"
- Im afraid this is beyond my knowledge for the moment, ive seen a fair wack of the elements but dont know enough to comment with any authority. My Hung Ga knowledge is limited im afraid:)

[fiercest tiger]

who is your sigung?

thanks:)

[jon]

"who is your sigung?"
-Collin Chau:)

[diego]

If you could add any technical input, much appreciated, im not sure what was added to lama from hung, like i mentioned before, i read hung gave tiger technique and lama gave longfists, now understand the guy who taught my style, taught a combo of what he learnt to a select few, stopped teaching and was killed.
now the guy who taught me, i no longer associate with, due to a falling out, and the only ones teaching my style, are in montreal and im in vancouver, besides $$$ & geography, to learn this aspect of what they teach, you have to be indoor, so, im going to just let time take its course, see what happens.

now when i look at the combos in my sets, the applications are very similar to what i see in the tigercrane book, and 6 or 7 people have mentioned thru emials and thier writings in articles, that its possible lama&the hung mingled, so im psyched/interested, in breaking down this set.

Have you learnt the tiger/crane yet, i understand what you wrote about thier bieng hidden applications in each movement, and the fact you could take a hand from one form and mix it with another.
it seems, to me in the tigercrane set, thier is the elemental longfists, also the smaller tiger/hung style? fists, such as uppercut or sun fist with the opposite fist clenched at hip, can you tell me about tiger punching flavor!!!

[diego]

- Im afraid this is beyond my knowledge for the moment, ive seen a fair wack of the elements but dont know enough to comment with any authority. """""""

i know thiers a few hung stylists in these forums, you just seem like a open practitioner,if you could tell me anything on the element fists,would be very good.

why dont you give me 3 emial addresses?? i will send you a hopga book"""3-5000kb!!!""" i scanned, it has one styles 12 longfists thier shorthands, stances,general basics etc, then you could assess how you may help me.

[diego]

wich bucksam kong rewrote,
any idea how many forms were in hungga when lam completed his study with wfh??.

Regarding specific tiger techniques.
There are several set movements in the pillar forms.....""

I have a theory, all these tiger claws, pheonix eyes etc, to the egos of the great masters, they would have looked at these tools as dirty harry gets off on his favorite gun, all like yah this is my ****, then they made forms off specified weapon.

could you tell me about the pillar forms, what attributes were learnt. Up to your current study.

[diego]

have you got into what they call wong fei hungs 10 killing hands, and what lamsai wing calls 8powerlohan fist?, i just came back from hungga.net watched the chan honjiang??sp?? tigercrane video, its such a tease cuts off before the fourth section when it gets into tiger claws and long fists.

you wrote a detailed description of the claw in your avatar on the spm thread, would you be so kind to give that kind of description on your learning in hung gar, Does your particular school have a website?, im picking on you with questions, from what you wrote in the spm thread, i have many differant drills, combined with your hungga fighting methods, i assume we could form a good discussion within the possibillitie's what may have been exchanged between both styles, respective.

now to step past the badtiming of my original idea, if we can build on possible pillar similaritys, get deeper into how say our fighting skills relate, we can ask seniors for differing perspectives, such as steve bieng busy, surrounded by the fact he has both our knowledge doubled, if we can come up with some combat related questions, we could send him an emial, then post his response online, he bieng busy and all.....
you down, thiers at least 50 hungga practitioners between this the south and hungga.nets board, i know about 6 lions roar/lama"tibetan white crane, hop gar & bakhok" Stylist's within these here parts..could be a cool chat

maybe get into, thiers the 5 mother??! southern style
choy
hung
mok
lau?
?
possibly in the southern main temple??, what could the original style/s??? have been like, to make bak-to wing chun arts,
wich all on face value seem to share the same spirit of designing techniques???!.

[David Jamieson]

d

?=li

peace

[diego]

I HAVE FAMILY IN THE SUE, SO T.O AINT A THING:eek:

you study hungga or something very similar, cant remember so im gonna check your site right now, while you analyze all i wrote, and start to elictrify with your total knowledge, whatever?? you have time to type about,
get goin, im checking your links so fillin the ??
no lie.....,

[David Jamieson]

Are you talkin about Sault Ste Marie?

Please visit my little site! :D Sign the guest book.

The book you have by Kong Buk Sam sifu is pretty good stuff. There is plenty of explanation in it about what you are asking.

If you can get your hands on Lam Sai Wings Books (3 of them, Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen - Fu Hok and Tid Sen kuen) there is even more in those books regarding the techniques and applications of the Hung style.

Hung has many lineages from the big well known ones such as Wong Fei Hung - Lam Sai Wing, to other lineages outside of the Lam Sai Wing line.

The concepts, principles and techniques of Hung Ga are found in many southern styles. This is primarily to their shared origins of Sil Lum temple.

Hungga.net has a lot of info about the Lam Sai Wing lineages and other Hung families.
one of the better sites about hung ga system on the net with plenty of free material for study.

Southern Shaolin styles are great styles, that's why they're still around and doing so well after many years.

peace

[diego]

I always read all these styles came from the southern temple from monk?, but you never hear about the monks actual style, now no offense to wong fei hung types, i would rather look at the whole system of a monk who only does his art, opposed to some kid who becomes a body gaurd who really only learnt boxing, as oppossed to warring.