Southern Broadsword

[perrylo]

Hey All!

I'm curious to know about other opinions about the Southern Broadsword competition form. Love it? Hate it? Great exercise? Waste of time? As it is a contemporary form, I wonder about its popularity. I personally really like the weapon (because it's a big and intimidating knife:p). Opinions?

[Crimson Phoenix]

I dislike ANY competition form of modern wushu...but the southern broadsword as a weapon is indeed real sweet :)

[Colin]

If you are refering to those silly foil "swords" and the lovely little dance the wushu guys/gals do then i'd have to say I hate it.
However a "real" southern broad sword form using a steel weapon is beautiful and deadly to behold!

Colin........

[firepalm]

Actually Colin the "wushu" southern broadsword is not a "silly foil" weapon and is in fact structurally quite solid. The routine itself is also quite a decent representation of conventional 'Canton' southern style. There is also a "wushu" southern staff, which requires that the staff be of a decent thickness (much more so then the Northern Long Fist based 'skinny' staffs), the routine itself is also a good representation of southern style staffs and is devoid of the 'dancy' acrobatics and leaps.

As to beautiful & 'deadly' maybe two centuries back. Seriously is anyone out there teaching Chinese weaponry ever actually used these same weapons in this day and age? The argument of weapon usage in a traditional vs. modern wushu debate always kills me.:rolleyes:

[denali]

It's not whether or not someone has used it or not, the *training* is very different...Traditional martial arts train to be able to use it don't they?

I think it's a piece of tin foil too.

[tomcat]

Traditional weapons such as broadsword,and butterfly sword techniques can be tranfered to many items such as a stick or a piece of pipe. I know that if I was ever attacked by someone with ,say, a knife ,And I was able to pick up a stick I would much rather instinctivly use a technique that actually works! Not some dance move , or Tai-bo that would probably get me killed!
Also training with a real weapon,builds strength and dexterity that can only aid you in any situation.

[Colin]

Whether or not the weapon is "structurally quite solid" is mostly irrelevent, as the key concern with the wushu form is the lack of "intent" when practicing.
These forms are not taught with a martial intent, but instead purely with the intent to perform the techniques with asthetic perfection.
Now there is nothing wrong with trying to make your forms look techniquely perfect, I believe we all strive to "look good". However to rate this particular facet of the training above the practical application of the form, detracts so far from the original purpose as to make people question the validity of the excerise.

I don't really want to re-open this can of wriggles, but a similar comparision might be made with modern/competition TaiChi forms, where the perfection of the technique from a purely visual perspective has become the primary reason for practice.
This detracts greatly from the original purpose of the form, and in many ways relegates the activity to the realms of dance.

As someone who also studies Xing Yi Quan, I appreciate how important mind or intent is when performing a technique, and to remove this facet is to invalidate the technique and destroy the purpose

regards
Colin.............

[firepalm]

but the mention as to 'quite structurally solid' was merely in response to the 'silly foil swords' statement (which I took as being in regard to the physical structure of the weapon) and in that regard it is relevant.

You are however quite right in saying that martial intent should be a focus. Intent however is subject to interpretation. Good Chinese martial arts (regardless of traditional, internal or contemporary sport) will strive to develop qualities such as yi (intent), jing (essence), shen (spirit), qi (energy), etc... these qualities can be found in 'good' contemporary sport wushu athletes & coaches. Many older generation 'sport' wushu coaches will be able to give you 'intended' application behind the movements. Do they actually train to fight (your interpretation I believe of intention?), no but should they have to? Contemporary Wushu is much like what happened when some arts (ie; Taiji) evolved towards development of internal health qualities, wushu went towards performance orientation. The truth is many (not all) so called 'traditional' schools train so much in forms and spend so little time in translating their skills to application that in reality they are IMHO just doing their own 'traditional' version of performance oriented wushu and could also be said to be relegating their art to the realms of dance.

My own foundation is in 'traditional' CMA, however I have learned to look outside the box so to speak and enjoy the new 'sport' wushu and see it as just one aspect of the many facets of CMA. Many (not all) of the detractors of sport wushu, I find speak from a narrow minded less well rounded view of CMA (usually only having had exposure to Hong Kong exported brands of southern 'kung fu').

Anyhow I respect your opinion & your right to it, I'm not trying to impose my view of things on you & just sharing a differing view. As I said I don't want this to become a long drawn out debate.
Regards