Fundamentals

[DelicateSound]

Since the Sept 11th attacks, my direction towards my training has been towards self-defence more than ever. I was discussing with a few mates about combat effectiveness, and found that all of them share the same views about this. Their views are that for combat effectiveness all you need is to train a few moves to a high standard.

I've always agreed that flashy, flowery moves are pretty useless in reality, and the cornerstone of my fighting system has always been simple, powerful strikes.

However, the extent to which these guys were talking is a bit different. I'm talking less than 10 moves here: Jab,Cross, Hook, Uppercut, Front Thrust Kick, Round Kick.

Do you guys agree with this? It's been mentioned before in articles I've read, most notably by Mr.Geoff Thompson.

I'm starting more and more to subscribe to this kind of mindset. After all, I can pull off a pretty mean axe kick, but I'm never seriously going to attempt it in the street.

What do you guys think?

[Brad]

What about elbows and knees? I think for street fighting it's also important to be aware of "dirty tricks" that take very little training to pull off. For example, if you have the opertunity when someone's trying to do something to you, stick a finger in his eye. Or a swift knee to the groin. Anyway, back to the original topic...
I think it's imortant to have a core set of simlistic techs that you can use, but don't abandon the rest of your training and become one deminsional. There's still throwing and submision/chin na techs. to think about.

[DelicateSound]

Yeah - I'd add some basic chokes armbars and throws to the list too. That list was just my mates' ideas [all strikers].

[flem]

i agree with you both. i think it is a proportion deal. the majority of my work is on the tried and true however, just as KF began as a simple form of wrestling and evolved as each new technique was developed, so too should present training. i believe that the overabundance of technique is what makes KF as whole both superior(to advanced practioner), and completely useless to the novice. i also feel this is why simpler arts seem so effective by comparison

[DelicateSound]

In a way, this is whats getting me so interested in Wing Chun. After all, my views on MA are changing rapidly. I want to be skilled for self-defense, not for tournaments, and as my music is starting to take over more and more of my life, I want something that is simple and effective, that I can be confident in - without having to spend 8 hours a day working on it.

[How many commas!] :D

[prana]

Pink FLoyd is awesome !

Master used to say, master just one set, complete one set properly and you burn away as much energy as 4 bowls of rice.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

we really don't practice forms in my class but i think the original idea for them fit in with this topic. practicioners would spend months perfecting a form so that each and every movement was fully ingrained and came as second nature. at this point they would then be taught the applications of each movement and perfect them in months of sparring before learing anything else. at this point they have added however many "jabs" and "crosses" that were in the form into their arsonal of simple and effective techniques. unfortunatly, today most schools like to move on to the next set of dance steps as soon as they complete one set half assed, but you get the point.

in my class we learn one strike/punch/kick/whatever and must practice this for weeks in a front facing horse stance. sometimes we have no idea what the movement is really for (unless you are the type who actually likes to think occasionally) and must practice this single movement again and again in a stance that you would never try to fight someone in. but after the motion becomes relaxed, powerful, and natural we are then shown the application and are responsible for taking it out of the horse stance and seeking out opportunities for it in sparring. after a couple months of this i just got a new "uppercut" or "stomp kick."

my point is that both meathods, and many more i'm sure, take allot of time and dedication but they slowly add more and more simple and effective movements into your can of whoop ass. simply rushing through a system, or many systems, collecting techniques will do little good. this can be either the student or the teachers fault and sometimes both. however, there still are some good teachers out there who know what they are doing and are very aware of the issues presented in this topic.

i just wish it were easier for these teachers to make money teaching pubically. most people get bored at these schools and leave after they havent learned anything new in a month or two. that's why allot of teachers, including mine, eventually decide to teach privately and get another job. this makes it a real b!tch for a serious student to locate a serious school. the teachers who don't do this will most often water down the art to keep people interested. this sucks for obvious reasons. of course there are those who try to have the best of both worlds by grabbing money off the massess and teaching their handful of real students seperately and thoroughly and i give them props.

you can learn ten thousand techniques well enough to fight with, but only if you are patient enough to learn them one at a time.

My sifu and I don't practice any differently now than before September 11.

Our style understands that plain and simple works best in real combat. That's why our system is smaller than even Wing Chun.

This is a characteristic of many of the older traditional Northern CMAs. Less is more.

[neito]

Delicate Sound - Have you read much Geoff Thompson stuff? I read his "real punching" and was an instant fan of his work. Unfortunatly his books are hard to find in canada. Apparently "watch my back" and the rest of the "real" series are very good. If you care to share any of his wisdom on the forum, I'm sure there would be many open ears. - cheers -

[shaolinboxer]

If simplicity leads to limitless adaptability (ideally) then that sounds great.

[David Jamieson]

Many styles have the true "keys" to the system in the fundamentals.

The practitioner will always find a small amount of techniques that they will master while they work on the larger body of the system looking for more techniques to master.

The bigger the system, the more choices for the many different people who study it and practice it.

A system can be small and still not have what some may need from it.

Same goes for a large system too.

The favoured techniques you have are the ones you show the least.
Hide your strength and display your weakness. It is a great strategy.

peace

[straight blast]

I'm talking less than 10 moves here: Jab,Cross, Hook, Uppercut, Front Thrust Kick, Round Kick

Add an elbow or two plus some knees & neck grappling (good stuff!) and you've got Muay Thai. It's pretty good for learning to fight quick.

But I'd also advise you to look into your Wing Chun if you have an interest there. It's the good sh*t. The more I see the more impressed I am with the simplicity and effectiveness of it.

[Water Dragon]

Kung Lek is correct.

RAF also has some excellant insight into the basics if we can cajole him into writing a reply.

[DelicateSound]

Neito - I've read "Watch My Back", "Real Grappling" and "The Fence".

They're all good but everyone should read Watch my Back. D*mn fine book - in every respect. Try Amazon.com, or even better:

www.geoffthompson.com


Kung Lek - I agree. I have a bad habit of using favoured techs and I frequently get punished.

Straight Blast - I'm still a bit iffy about joining a local WC club. I like the style, but It's a big push to change you know.

WD: Ah the elusive RAF. Where is he?.... [Cue X-Files music]

[neptunesfall]

a small amount of techniques, trained until mastery is what makes a good fighter.
i train the same 14 techniques every day and train everything else on a weekly basis.
"do not fear the man that has practiced 10,000 kicks one time. fear the man that has practiced 1 kick 10,000 times" is how the saying goes, i believe. very true. very true.