CLF Literature

[anton]

I've heard of ones by Lee Koon Hung, Doc Fai Wong and Leo T Fong. Does anyone know much about these books? (what they cover, which is better etc). Could you suggest some other titles?

(BTW I'm not quite ignorant enough to try to learn forms from the book, so there is no need to tell me not to try it :D ).

[Sow Choy]

Hello,

Lee Koon Hung's books are pretty good, not much literature though. CLF Dynamic Art of Fighting has a lot of explanations on technique and application. The other books that were released are mainly picture books that show movements in the form.

I have seen Doc Fai Wong's book, but never Leo Fong's. Of course I favor Lee Koon Hung's since I was his student ;)

If you need any of Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung's books go to:
www.leekoonhungkungfu.com

There are also videos by his brother Master Li Siu Hung there as well.

Grandmaster had a book almost finished, but never released it. His brother has mentioned he would like to have it published at a later date. I hope that will happen. Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung showed it to me once, it went over Sup Gee Kow Dah and Iron Palm training from what I remember.

Joe

[Eddie]

Anton,
dont worry to much about what people say about reading books etc. I have read Lee Koon Hung's book probably more than 2 000 000 times and everytime I read it, I learn something else.

The book by Leo T Fong is also good, just a little different to the Lee Koon Hung book. Lee Koon Hung's book is more about practicality of the movements etc, while Leo T Fong's book is simply about a form.

As sow choy said, I also reccomend getting their videos, not to learn the form, but as a valuable source of info on choy lay fut or just kung fu in general. For me, even just the intro's with master Li Siu Hung performing has allot of value (stuff like posture, focus etc). I think I have watched those intros more than reading the book.

When i was at varsity, we went to class, we listened to lectures, we read books and study manuals, and we even watched videos with information. All of these were study aids. Why not use them in kung fu.

Later
Eddie

[RAIN]

anton

Is better always learn with a master but sometimes you can't close to one . so is great learn forms and tecniques from videos and books . and sometimes funny . you always get the opportunity of meet a master in the future that can correct your mistakes .
but a good advice is not mixed linajes . i 'd buy the doc fai wong videos and lee koon hung books and i'd keep with the forms of lee koon hung ( i'd falling in love of his loq kwai ma )
but if i'd was mixed the two linajes maybe i'd can get a very confuse info .
i recomend you the lee siu hung videos . they are well explained step by step . is like going to class with a sifu .
and the books ..... well the books of lee koon hung are a real treasure . a deluxe edition of the choy lay fut forms . you can't lose that books .

joe

would really great if you school can edit the unfinished book of grandmaster lee koon hung . in the book " dinamic art of ..... "
always was mentioned that some things going to be explained in the next book . and you now mentioned " iron palm trainnig of choy lay fut " . these is a autentic treasure .
wiill be great too that master li siu hung and you would can write a new book in the future . the article about joi baat sing kuen was amazing . you write very clear and ilustrative . think about it .

[iron_silk]

Now I am not a CLF of this lineage BUT:

I saw Tat Mau Wong specifically create a long-distance program for students who wouldn't have to choice of studying with a master. I think he offers text, audio, and video! Now I am not trying to advertise for him, but I just find that devotion to kungfu especially through long distance really admirable!

and you might not have to worry so much since he was a student of Lee Koon Hung.

Tat Mau Wong also released an older series of CLF videos with Panther Video production...just to let you know if you didn't know already!

[anton]

Thanks for the replies ppl. Just to further clarify
-----------------------------------------------------
(if you're bored please feel free to read):
----------------------------------------------------
I trained in Buk Sing CLF for quite some time (under Sifu Dave Lacey when he was here, and under Gary Shambrooke when Sifu left). Unfortuneately I had to stop training because I had come to a decisive point at school (basically in Aus, the uni course you get into depends on a standardised mark you get in the final year of high school). If I was going to get in to the course I had decided to get into I would have to really put an effort in - to make up for years of slacking. So I decided to quit kung fu for a while. That has stretched much longer than I would have liked and I am now thinking about going back. But before I do I want to train a bit at home so I don't make an utter fool of myself when go back. This is where some good books might come in handy.
----------------------------------------------------

Hopefully when I go back to training I will be able to make some better contributions here, Thanks again for the replies :D.

[Fu-Pow]

My Sifu Mak Hin Fai also has videos available through his website.
They are good deal you usually get 2-3 forms per tape. The production is not that high quality but you can see what you need to see. I have also seen Tat Mau Wong and Liu Siu Hung/Joe Keit's videos. They are both very good and easy to learn from.

CLF is definitely a style that translates well to tape. It is very simple and practical and it has big movements that are easy to see.

Lee Koon Hung's book Dynamic Fighting Art is very good also. It really makes you think about the applications in a new way.
The picture are a little bit grainy though.

His newer form books are of higher quality visually.

Good luck in your adventure back into CLF!!!!!!

[nospam]

anton,

although you didn't ask, I would comment on you waiting to start training again.

Just do it, mate. You haven't started yet, by just going down and joining and getting involved again, you'll more than likely be thankful you did. And if you enjoy Buck Sing like I do...what's holding ya back! ;)

nospam.
:cool:

[anton]

nospam,
Because I got to a certain level when I was training, I expect there'll be some expectation/pressure on me to display the same level of skill/fitness that I used to have - from both the instructors and other students. In my current state of physical neglect any such expectations are not likely to be met. This could lead to significant humiliation.
I started basic training about a week ago - cardio, horse stance static training, 3-star-hit (imagine the humiliation of doing this with a beginner and not being able to handle it), basic techniques in front of a mirror etc...
Hopefully I will be ready (physically and mentally) to go back in a month or so.

[Sow Choy]

Anton,

Good Luck to you, I agree with Nospam, just go back and it won't be that bad. The more you wait the harder it will be to go back. You just need to make sure you stay this time. :cool:

Good Luck my friend,

Joe

[iron_silk]

don't feel humilated to practice with a beginner...face what you have and face how hard you have to work to get there again!

In fact it shows a greater amount of character to not mind starting from the beginning again especially since you had a long break!

Also if you want to get started again without going back then you don't really need books to help...just practice what you have learned already to get you started...i find when I do that i actually learn more and able to do things i couldn't do before!

Goodluck!

[anton]

yeah I just thought a book might remind me of some of the things I've forgotten. I also thought it would be a good investment since up to this point I have never bought a book on martial arts.

[JAZA]

Anton:

What happen to the Buck Sing website in ozemail of Dave LAcey and Gary Shambrooke.
It was very good.

[Fu-Pow]

One of the favorite things my Sifu does is that if someone takes a bunch of time off he works their a$$ off the first day back. When I took a few months off one time he made me do 3 Sup Ji Kow Dahs in a row. Then he just laughs at you as you choke on your own phlegm. Crikey!!!! But it is kind of a tough love kind of thing, its not malevolent (OK maybe a little). He really wants to know if you've been practicing your stuff on your own and doing some conditioning.

A books not gonna help you in this respect. When you return your Sifu is gonna know exactly how much you've been training. My suggestion is you bite the bullet and go back. Your gonna suck but you know what... people who don't practice don't stay sharp. Its called Kung Fu for a reason it takes hard work and effort every single day.

If you want to lesson the impact of returning I'd suggest the following routine to get you in good fighting shape. It will take about a month.

-Start jogging. This is the only way your gonna get your cardio back in shape. Kung fu is a good workout but it doesn't have the same effect. I'd start out at about 2 miles distance. Then if this starts feeling good you can add some 3 pound hand weights while you jog. If that feels good start doing intervals 1 min sprinting, 1 min jogging, 1 min fast walking (repeat up to 2 miles.)
You should do this 3-4 times a week.

-Practice your stances 5-10 min a day. I mean a good low stance, holding it out until your legs burn. Don't bounce up and down either.

-Do 50 situps and 50 pushups a day. If you can't do 50 start out with something smaller and add push up everyday up to 50.

-Get a 1 inch diameter wooden dowel, cut it to about 12". When your sitting watching TV lightly beat your forearms with it. Do this everytime your just sitting around. Work up slowly till your really whacking your forearms.

If you follow this program for a month. Your gonna come back and eat everyone alive. heehehehhehe

Good luck.

[RAIN]

" learning kung fu is like rowing a boat upstream . as long as you continue rowing , you make progress , however , the minute you stop , you not only stop making progress , but you begin to move back bard "


master mak hin fai

[k-no]

Fu Pow....speaking about videos...


Do you have a copy of the 1998 Lee Koon Hung Memorial Championship Tournament where there was a Master's Demo? My sifu, si-hing and I attended and competed in that tournament. I've been looking for a copy of that tape for some time. Hopefully part of my sparring was taped but if not, I would like a copy in any case just to re-live that nice trip to Seattle. I e-mailed the contact on your sifu's web site and received no answer. Maybe you could help me out?

k

[Fu-Pow]

I'm not sure who's monitoring the website right now. Let me get back to you on that. I'll ask tonight.

[JAZA]

Originally posted by RAIN
" learning kung fu is like rowing a boat upstream . as long as you continue rowing , you make progress , however , the minute you stop , you not only stop making progress , but you begin to move back bard "


master mak hin fai

That's true, I'm sinking.

[anton]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement everyone!

Fu-Pow - thats approximately the training regime that I'm following.

RAIN - da.mn true!

JAZA - not sure what happened to the site. I know that Gary's school moved one or two years ago and is now at the StKilda Police youth and citizens' centre. There is also another school on Balaclava rd run by Nick Lizos - another of Sifu's disciples.

[k-no]

You Aussies are better off training with Nick. Sifu speaks real highly of him and would place him at the top of his food chain in our lineage, there in Australia. Mario and Franco Riggio he used to speak of too, but I guess they are inactive or one now plays with the Chan Yong Fa's group. Gary....he never really commented on skills wise, other than his movie role. In Choy Lay Fut skill, he praised Nick the most.

k

[JAZA]

Franco Riggio is with Chan familiy.
http://clfma.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=9 .
I think there is no problem, because I know that master VInce is good friend of master Chan Yong Fa and master Dave must be too.

[extrajoseph]

You guys made it sound as though it is a crime to study with another teacher. Most good teacher who is secure about their own knowledge would welcome their students (especially the top ones who are good and keen) to study with another good teacher to learn more or the same from a different perspective.

I am sure even though Franco went to study with Chen, he is still a loyal CLF man. Don't forget Tarm Sam also learned with Chan Koon Pak with the wooden dummies. Students just want to learn and improve their skills whichever way they can, they don't want any politics. The branch thing is just a paper tiger and should be ripped to pieces.

[k-no]

Dude, calm down man. These guys used to train under Master Dave and if they wanted to walk the same path I am just enlightening them to what sifu's opinions are, which are that Nick Lizos' CLF is no joke. If they wanted to learn under Gary, Franco, or frickin William Cheung or Leung Ting is their business. I wouldn't have even mentioned Franco if I didn't think he had legitimate skills. Bloody hell....*shrugs*

k

[extrajoseph]

k-no,

“Mario and Franco Riggio he used to speak of too, but I guess they are inactive or one now plays with the Chan Yong Fa's group.”

Sorry, I must have a different English teacher than you do, I interpreted the above statement as your teacher no long speak of Franco because he went to play with Chan Yong Fa’s group. It is the same with Mario because he is no longer active. So going to study with Chan Yong Fa will lead to the same reaction from your sifu as giving up training – he will not speak of them again.

My apology if I have over reacted and misinterpreted your message. English is my second language. People think Chinese is hard to learn and English is easy, but for me, even after 30 years I still have trouble with English.

jX

[k-no]

Fair enough bro. Just a misunderstanding. Between you and me, if a Master's disciple leaves to join another's organization, there is going to be some hurt feelings. I'm pretty sure sifu wasn't ecstatic about the situation, but he would never bad mouth them. He doesn't speak of them much, but he still has tapes of their fights, which he cornered. We would watch them from time to time and he would then comment on their skills...."There's Franco with the Iceman....he bloody gives it to the baaaastid!". =)

If Buck Sing is what they are looking for, I suggest Nick. If they want CLF in general, well Nick, Gary or any competent instructor under Chan Yong Fa's Sydney group will do, of course. =)

k

[JAZA]

Sorry If I help to confuse the words of k-no I just also remember saw Franco Riggio in the site and want to link it.

Joseph, glad to see you back from your holidays.

[extrajoseph]

Thank you for being so candidly honest. I can understand how your sifu feels. I can also see now why Chan Yong-Fa is so unpopular outside of his own circle. He can be seen as a stealer of other people’s students. What could he have done, say no to Franco? Do you think Franco has been disloyal? May be this could be the real reason for the Kong Hing vs. Chan Yong-Fa controversy, is it true from your angle? Sorry about all these questions, you seem to have the inside information.

JAZA,

I had a great time in China, I went to both the Futshan Temple and the King Mui Ancestral School. They did a great job in restoring both places, it can ony be a good thing for CLF.

josephX

"Monk stirrs wine barrel"- Jackie Chan

[k-no]

Whoah, let's address your questions before things get misconstrued.

Sifu Dave Lacey has nothing against Chan Yong Fa. He could never have been too angry with him, considering he himself has been labeled a "student stealer". I won't go into details regarding any parties involved, suffice it to say that Sifu himself has said time and again to people who left their master's to join with him, to forget about the affair and go back to their sifu, but they vehemently insisted.

As far as Franco being disloyal....I wouldn't use that word. Although I feel Franco owes Sifu gratitude for pushing him towards victory in the ring, I do feel that every situation has two sides and certain arrangements may not have been agreeable to him. For instance, Sifu moved to Melbourne from Perth. While some students followed Sifu to train, I wouldn't expect them to. People have lives to lead as well, especially those who don't live and breathe Choy Lay Fut. I feel that if Franco had to follow another path due to distance or any other reason, he couldn't have found much better than Chan Yong Fa's CLF group.

I don't want this small occurence in their lives to be linked in anyway to the supposed "Kong Hing & Chan Yong Fa" controversy. Sigung Kong Hing is a very outspoken individual who doesn't pull his punches and says what he means, without buttering up the situation. They are two different men, with different personalities and traits. I'm sure Master Chan is a good person. Sigung Kong Hing is a just and honest person, who wouldn't kiss your ass if he is not in the mood. It was probably just a bad day for the two to interact.

k

[k-no]

lol @ Shaolin36

"Monk puts wine down, has a cup of coffee and two aspirin."

k

[extrajoseph]

"Wink, wink. Say no more." - Norman Gunston.