who did yip man teach the knives to?

[Tongue_of_Colibob]

I don't at all mean to cause any arguments or controversy, but Ive heard rumors that Yip Man only tought a few students the knife set. Who were these students? And if he only tought a few students the set, did these students go on to teach those who didnt have a chance to learn the knives before Yip Man died?

Thanks in advance,

Jesse

[yuanfen]

Larry, Curly and Mo. They do great wing chun.

Seriously- why is the first question important? Is a divisive question.You will get different answers- many only self serving.

Re 2nd question- most learned what they did from a few.

Many claim that they learned directly from YM. True in the same way that I learned from Leung Jan<g>.

IMO, the knives were taught last in some kung fu systems- the last gift which cut off or changed the purely teacher-student relationship. So one had to be a long time, consistent and advanced student for years to learn the full form from beginning to the end. We tend to look at YM through contemporary eyes-
whereas his habits and values were rooted in pre communist China- adjusted enough to make a living in HK when circumstances required it..

[Kuen]

The names you see bandied about seem to be Lok Yiu, Moy Yat, Chu Song Tin and Wong Sheung Leung. I don't see as it really makes a difference though because many Sifu can't actually use them, and many more are selfish and won't teach the knives so they have something to hold over the senior students.

[yuanfen]

Others have a quite differnt list though WSL is on it. I agree- for most people it does not matter.

[dzu]

Now you've done it Joy!

You left out Shemp! Shemp is the true inheritor of the original WC :)

Dzu

[burnsypoo]

ahh, I KNEW there was a reason why his Wu Sau would come up to block the dreaded "dragon tongued eye-poker" technique.

Nyuk Nyuk.

-BP-

[yuanfen]

Wise guy eh?- Now-Take that-BONG!

[yuanfen]

But Dzu

Shemp flipped the knives!

[burnsypoo]

he did? Hmm... maybe his WC was alive then...

hmm....

[anerlich]

for the devastating and highly effective American art of Stooge-fu.

Read

http://www.windowswarrior.com/rmam/rmamfaq7.htm

and dispel your ignorance. NOW!

[Kuen]

Shemp learned the true, traditional knife form at 3 in the morning from Yip Man while fishing off Leung Bik's boat.


:D

[yuanfen]

Shemp was smart enough to know that the pole is better
while fishing. yuk yuk. you use the knives after you catch the fish...
unless Curley ran off with the fish...

[David Peterson]

When my Sifu was asked about who had learnt the 'Baat Jaam Do' from GM Yip Man, he always answered, "Yip Man only taught four people the 'BJD', and if I was to name the other three, there would be quite a few embarrassed individuals..."
DMP

[Rolling_Hand]

Hi David,

Good to see you here. I've heard many good things about you.

As a member of WSL lineage. Do you do 100/0 stance?

[David Peterson]

Hi, ...thanks for the welcome. In reply to your query re the weight distribution, the answer is "Yes", ...and "No". You see, combat and training (or if you prefer, theory and practise) are two very different things, yet sometimes the line between the them becomes blurred (often by necessity and/or circumstances beyond our control). As a rule, especially when I am teaching fundemental concepts, I advocate keeping the weight off the forward leg as much as possible, using the analogy of a rear wheel drive car, whereby the front wheels do the steering and the back wheels drive the car forward or reverse, or else one can compare the stance to the out-rigger canoes found in the Pacific Islands, whereby the body of the boat carries the passengers, while the out-rigger(s) helps to stabilise/balance the boat in the water. However, I also DO NOT advocate a so-called "on-guard" stance as such, so we are never expecting or planning to be in a static position with the weight entirely on the back leg for more than a brief moment between steps/stances, hence in application there are just as many times when I might have equal weight over both feet, or even more weight on the forward leg, should there be an advantage in doing so (such as when momentarily pinning/jamming the leg of an out-of-positioned opponent). Like I said, it's a case of "Yes" and "No", ...you see, combat is never black or white, but rather a myriad shades of grey, and 'WSLWC' has taught us to make our system our slave, not to be bound by fixed ideas, but instead to be flexible, adaptable and constantly changing to suit the situation. Without the ability to actually "show" you what the heck I'm on about, I hope that this reply isn't too confusing.
DMP

[Kuen]

Good to see you posting here! My compliments on the book it was awesome.:)

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I see this tread getting a bit worse. Wingchunalex has openly decided to call one Sifu a liar and seems to think that everyone who is doing the knife form was taught it correctly. I do not agree with this assessment.

It is easy to learn the "form" but it is not always so easy to grasp the concepts and subtlities which will alow one to use the form. While many can look good while moving the knives around I seriously doubt that there are many who could actually use the knives. Of course in todays society it is unlikely that anyone will ever really need to use the knives so one can feel relatively safe in performing but not needing to do.

It seems to me that Yip Man would have only taught a few people the knife form, and of those an even fewer number the applications of the forms. Considering his teaching methods it only makes sense that not all got what he had to offer.

I think that many of those teaching today may have incorporated things from other Wing Chun Sifu into their system to round out their approach, nothing wrong with this at all. This would also explain some of the similarities in the perfromance. However, it is a bit niave to think that the majority of Yip Mans students learned the Knifes as many Sifu today would hold back on this knowledge and pass it on to only a few of their own students.

In closing I would ask that we all refrain from direct attacks on individuals or lineages. While you may hold your own opinion this is not the place for airing degrading commnets which will only serve to be more divisive to our art. Would it not be better to do what we can to bring all of our Wing Chun brothers and sisters together as a single family and try to resolve any of our differences in a mature manner? We will never be able to do this as long as we continue with the attacks and "my way is better" mentality. I would hope that those on this board would desire a higher aim, otherwise we always run the risk of joining the VTA Forum.

Peace,

Dave

[yuanfen]

Wingchunalex

Wong Shon Leung's comment on the knives is a stand alone comment and had no direct bearing on Yip Chun.
Some of the few who got the knives directly from Yip Man taught others. In turn others learned by imitation. Dwelling on all this is
counterproductive. Best to learn the knives froma good instructor who knows what he is doing- albeit judging that is not easy for newbies.

[yuanfen]

PS. Yip Chun is one of Yip Man's sons and using the word "lie"
is inappropriate. One can still respect elders in wing chun while
differing on ways to do things.Besides,
Most wing chun folks including many teachers in the current
generation are not always equal authorities on the principles and usage of the bot jam do. There is so much to do before getting to the bjd stage. Unlike some other arts in wing chun it is important to develop first rate stances, hands and mobility before fiddling with the knives- otherwise you mess up on controlling weapons.