Collectable Gung Fu Books???

[Black Jack]

Here are my thoughts on what I consider an interesting subject.

This is a thread brought up by my study of the western methods and on how these martial/combative western systems are often highly codified/researchable for emprical data and history.

In terms of the Chinese systems and methodology do you CMA english speaking/reading players have access to books, manuels and manuscripts to collect and research or is this only accessable to those who read chinese/japenese/korean, etc.

Does this stop you western CMA students from getting your hands on certain material for collection, research and comparison????

Also what collectable CMA based books in engilsh do you have access to, what makes you drool, what do you wish you could get your hands on, I would like to see specific books on martial techniques and styles listed to be found in Engilsh and those that are made in the mid/eary 2oth century/19th century would be interesting to hear about.

Back before Gung Fu became a household name?

This is not to state that a oral tradition is not as important, many effective styles and ethinic groups work on a passable oral history and martial culture, just seeing what early collectable work you guys are seeking out.

[Ky-Fi]

I just got "Taiji Sword and Other Writings", by Chen Weiming. It's a new translation of the book that was originally published in 1928--I guess it's one of the earliest Taiji books published. Chen Weiming was a student of Yang Cheng Fu, and also studied with Sun Lu Tang. It's got the original pictures (which are admittedly in less than great shape), and details of the principles and methods of the sword form. Maybe not the most complete book, but I think it's pretty cool to read detailed instructions from a master in the 1920s.

[Black Jack]

That is exactly the kind of stuff that I was hoping to hear.

Nice find for you, but what else is out their for you engilsh speaking/reading CMA guys?

[Stranger]

Dennis Rovere's release of Huang Po-Nien's "Hsing i Fist and Weapon Instruction" (originally published in 1928).

Just because a style isn't written down but is passed via "oral" (actually by "muscular memory") tradition doesn't necessary mean it's less sophisticated or less teachable.

In fact, many of the really old CMAs are sophisticated and teachable by virtue of their simplicity. The style I study is one of them.

These old traditional styles were deliberately kept small because "style paralysis" resulted in death - or worse.

Besides, most Chinese kung fu guys back then were illiterate anyway. They couldn't read or write, let alone produce printed manuals for mass consumption.

A person who is illiterate isn't necessarily stupid or incapable of doing good kung fu.

Most of us who do not speak Mandarin Chinese (myself being one of them) are even WORSE than illiterate when it comes to learning Chinese kung fu - yet we do just fine.

[Ray Pina]

Of coarse I am interested in materials like this, but besides their scarcity, I'm concenred that much would be lost in translation. I want to learn Chinese and read it direcly.

However, nothing takes the place of a good sifu.

[xiong]

I have an obsession with books in general and KF books in particular. I now am trying to use my library card more as I am running out of shelf space. I don't have access to original sources and my Chinese is barely at a first grade level. I have gone back to school to remedy that.

I like Yang Jwing Ming's books because of their attention to training methods and I feel they do a good job explaining some of the more esoteric theory. In fact the books in collaboration with Liang Shou Yu have improved on this.

I also have the Contemporary Shaolin texts and those are very interesting. I like the catalog of forms and the Qi gong and meridian information in the 5th volume.

But none of these are classic texts.

[Ky-Fi]

A problem with the Chinese arts is that I think it can be difficult to go back to the really old texts, even if you can read and write Chinese. My teacher, who is Chinese, has said that when he's done translations, or compared other translations, it's difficult because modern Chinese isn't exactly the same as ancient Chinese, and some of the characters can be translated in slightly different ways, and also there's the fact that some of the texts need to be translated by someone who understands martial arts, to communicate the spirit and intention of the original text---the result is that translations from different sources can be slightly different but carry very different meanings---not an easy task.

I don't read or write Chinese, but maybe somebody who does can offer some opinions.....

[jun_erh]

I've read opinion (on B. Klein Tai Chi board) that ywang Jang Ming is seen as somewhat of an oppurtunist by some? That he is too prolific and his shaolin is much better than the rest of his stuff.
http://www.nsws.com/tai-chi/discuss/messages/46/242.html

[Ao Qin]

This has always been a thorn in my side. I have stacks of papers on my style, in Chinese Characters. Probably about five rare books too. Too bad for me, I study Cantonese, but the characters are beyond me. My Sifu helps, but he lives a distance away from me, and it is way too much an imposition to drop it all in his lap and say, "would you mind translating all this stuff for me?". Of course, I just give him a copy of everything, and hope he might share bits and pieces with me when he has the time.

I've taken some of this material to translators in Hong Kong, and to a few places in North America. Prices vary drastically for translation, but because the material is "martial" specific, and the characters more often then not cannot be easily transliterated into English, it takes more than a translator, it also takes someone familiar with Chinese Kung Fu as well. For about twenty pages, I've been quoted prices up to $500 U.S. - if you have hundreds of pages to translate, at $25 a page, you better be rich!

So, year after year, I rely on the kindnesses of friends - asking them for a favour here, a favour there, translating the material page by page. I must say though that I have learned more about my style this way, then I would have expected. Every new paragraph reveals an aspect of the Art that I had not known before, and another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

Incidently, a few people who I have trusted and respected within my style have offered to help if I forwarded them material. Some helped, some mysteriously dissapered. It is a lot of work though.

I even subscribe to a few Chinese Martial Art magazines, so that I don't miss an important article. Perhaps one day I will have more spare time on my hands to do a more serious study of the written Chinese.

Anyway, its a certainly an ongoing challenge for us Westerners!

[David Jamieson]

I have a very good collection now of books both in chinese and english. Some hard to find, some not so hard to find.

The best ones I have are Lam Sai Wings books in Chinese.
You want to learn from them, then it is best to learn them in Chinese. English loses something in the translation. I have spent a good deal of time and energy in learning to understand the chinese language as I know for a fact it will help you understand the literature associated with the martial musings and instructional manuals that are available.

I also have a collection of Wing Chun books that are both in english and Chinese, these are realy good books also. I like Wing Chun as a close fighting system, there's some good stuff in it. It is distilled from Shaolin, but the distillation is a good one to be sure.

Anyway, take the time and effort to learn, the rewards will be in that itself I guarantee you.

peace