praying mantis and capoeira

[puma]

I'm quite sure all of us can agree on the effectiveness of praying mantis kung fu,but how effective do you guys think praying mantis would be against capoeira? Yes...i know you guys are very tired of those style v.s. style type of discussions,but i was watching a movie that had capoeira in it and i was considering how difficult it would be for me if i was fighting against someone who knew capoeira,but then again...i'm only a novice compared to most you guys:D

[grifter721]

From what I have seen capoeira would take waaaay to long to master it to teh point of street fighting with it, waaaay to many kicks, powerful kicks mind you but they end up taking your eyes off you. Looks like too much energy is expired too. Maybe I am wrong but this is from what I have seen and heard.

[Kiasyd]

Capoeira uses some good distance between the oponents, unlike Praying Mantis which usually seeks to closes in.

So, my guess is that if the Mantis person manages to get close, he will be in beter position, if not, capoeira will have advantage.

Of course I can be wrong.

-- Kiasyd

[Stacey]

I think mantis would do great. Many mantis styles are very good at the long range. I think repeated mandarin duck kicks would do him in. Or at least close the range. Capoiera has throws too, but not that much.

Do the jinga for a while. Its really not that stable, its like swinging a large bat back and forth, you don't want to get hit, but get to the inside and its.

COOL RUNNINGS!!!!

[ExitusDeorum]

It's not so much a question of Mantis vs Capoeira as it is Mantis fighter vs Capoeira fighter.
I agree with Grifter in this - why not simply sit back and wait for the spinning-one to tire himself out then close in and get dirty? If you've been training your Mantis footwork well, you can easily stay out of his range and then sloe in with powerful hand-techniques...
Having said that, watch me get trashed next time I get it on with a capoeira player! ;)

[ExitusDeorum]

Sloe? Where'd that come from? Of course, being the intelectuals you are, you all KNOW that I meant 'Close.'

Thankyou all. Ahem.

[NPMantis]

One of the advantages of mantis is that there are many long and short range moves, so I don't really think this is an issue.

I would have said it depends of the person (knowing nothing about Capoeira) and your level of skill - whatever it is that works for you.

[puma]

the issue i was thinking of when this subject came to mind...npmantis...is the way a capoeira fighter 'dances' around while engaging their opponent and how difficult it might be to employ mantis hand techniques on such an opponent.from what i've observed..capoeira fighters are constantly moving or 'dancing' around and they seem to use hit and run tactics[hit and get the hell out of the way] like i said before, i'm just a novice so please forgive my ignorance:D stacey...i like the idea of mandarin duck kicks ,but i've never heard of them...sorry:( exitus deorum and grifter 721...y'all made a good point too,but i'm quite sure such a fighter would have some type of cardiovascular training for such a scenerio as you two suggested...you think??:D

[EARTH DRAGON]

Well it really depends on the fighter and not the style, the style is somewhat responsible but no way near as much as the individual.

However to add to the thread I would have to say play his game..... if your normal fighting taticts dont work then you have to adapt to the situation. Many times I have had to change up my strategy due to the person, weather, surroundings or clothing. I once had to defend my self while snowmobiling have you ever tried to move in a snowmobile suit? So I would definatly say fight his game, if you have ground fighting skills tackle him and utilize your ground skills again adaptation..

[NPMantis]

Hi Puma, by the way I don't know anything about capoeira! It sounds interesting though. Out of interest what art do you study? I'm sure many mantis techniques would be useful against this type of fighting, that's why I love it so much it teaches you to be a complete fighter.

Take care mate,

Mantis

[MonkSanTe]

I just wanted to add, real quick, that I have been to a Capoeira demonstration, and talked with some of the capoeristas (sp?). Capoeira dates back a few hundred years ago and was developed by renegade African slaves in Brazil, influenced by ancient African martial arts such as sanga. They had been captured and enslaved by Portuguese imperialists and sold to Portuguese settlers in Brazil. Some of the slaves escaped into the surrounding mountains, honing the craft of capoeira. They would then sneak back on to the plantations and teach the other slaves capoeira. This explains why capoeira looks like elaborate dancing and ritual. Any martial art practiced was a threat to slave owners, so they disguised the art in graceful dances, music and chants.

When practicing or fighting in formalized matches, the spectators and capoeristas form a circle (roda) around the two fighters.The roda is headed by a group of musicians and singers (the bateria) who provide music, rhythm and poetry to accompany the battle or practice session. The bateria begins the music and the two capoeristas begin their fight. In formalized capoeira (practices and matches), it is against the rules for any part of your body to touch the ground except for your head, hands, and feet. If you are knocked on you behind or on your back, you lose. Most capoeira matches do not involve bodily contact-it's mostly a matter of feinting, dodging, turning, jumping and otherwise faking out your opponent.

Anyway-there are real street level applications, where the dancing is not done, but quick strikes (I believe mostly kicks?) are thrown at the opponent, as well as leg traps and things of that nature. I was highly impressed with the demonstration I saw (in fact, I would highly recommend seeing one if possible, they're really fun and exciting!), but I would definitely say that someone with a solid praying mantis background would have the advantage. I have often thought about taking Capoeira as a kind of minor art, when I have become profecient in my own style. Wow, I hope this is interesting or helpful in some way, it turned out to be pretty long winded. Thanks

[puma]

Hi,npmantis.right now i'm trying to learn 7*star mantis. monk sante,thank you for your post ...it was indeed most helpful and very interesting

[Kiasyd]

Also, capoeira is a very ellusive (sp?) martial art due to its dance-like moves. Its quite common to think that a hit is coming from one side, when in fact, its coming from the other, very deceptive.

And as MonkSanTe said, most hits will be kicks, leg traps, and lots of sweeps.

Its a very interesting art! Very acrobatic with intrincate moves.

-- Kiasyd

[isol8d]

It's the fighter not the style, yada yada yada

With that said, a well timed scissor kick ala Cung Le, could possibly turn the tide on said fight. It's a heavy blow to the midsection and then takes the fight to the ground. Of course, Capoeristas generally have crazy agility, so landing said kick would take practise against a moving opponent. Sweeps would also work, but would be hard to land against an opponent that flips around. I think closing the gap and using mantis hand techniques would not be unheard of as well. However, most of what I have seen of capoeria is kicks, so trapping a punch wouldn't be effective. I don't think someone trained in this art would be expecting a high circle punch to the head. Some sort of combo like a jab, jab, hich circle punch followed with a kick might work.

Good subject matter to think of.

[NPMantis]

At the end of the day, we're all totally biased, but I would be very impressed if I could find an art more potent than mantis. The Mantis fighter seeks to close the distance gap and finish the opponent using such a vast array of techniques, especially the grabs and close body techniques. The footwork is from monkey style kung fu, and I am confidenct could match anything else. But once again I am completely biased so don't take my word for it!

By the way, I don't know much about 7* mantis, I was interested in knowing, do you know how it is different from other styles of mantis?

Thanks bud,

take care,

Mantis

[Tvebak]

It seems to me that the capoeira game i more like hit and move and the kungfu game is more hit and block/trap.
I dont think its as much a matter of distance as a matter of getting the other guy into your game.
capoeira have loads of close distance techs, you may not have seen them, but trust me they are there.
To the comment about the Ginga being unstable. Its a very stable and effective way of moving when you get it, and i dont mean just the side to side movement, but the whole ginga way of moving.
Also dont confuse the capoeira game with fighting, its like confusing drills, pushhands or chisao with fighting.

[Shaolindynasty]

"With that said, a well timed scissor kick ala Cung Le, could possibly turn the tide on said fight."

Scissor kicks are in capoeria to. It wouldn't turn the tide of anything. Capoeria has hand leg and takedown techniques in it. It may look weird but it is just as good as any style of kungfu. Remeber when people said BaGua was ineffective because of the way it looked?

[urban tea]

I have never seen capioera have trapping or hands.

[Stacey]

Capoiera has throws. And infighting, its not all the gymnastics. Its streetfighitng. But hey it was developed by rich arristocrats who pondered theories, its not like slaves used in plantation fights or defending what bleak existence they had.

[puma]

npmantis...what's up ?
my apologies for taking so long to reply been feeling under the weather lately.
i'm only a novice...so there really isn't too much i could tell you about the difference between 7 *star praying mantis and other mantis styles except for footwork[8 step] and kicks[wah lum]
if i'm wrong ...please forgive me.... i'm sure some of the better
informed members here will correct me