Has it ever happened to you?

[Ray Pina]

A non-martial art friend of mine was over, a nice guy, small, sort of a Hiku poet type, into tea and sushi and reading his latest stuff. A good guy.

So we were watching some kung fu flick or something and after the movie, being guys, I guess we were pumped up a bit. Now, I don't go around advertising what I study, but he is a friend of mine and its kind of hard to miss the swords, caligraphy and what not on the walls, and he knows why not to come over on Tues or Fri. nights, because I'm training in Chinatown.

Anyway, after the movie he's feeling like an Italian after seeing Rocky and starts bobing and weaving with his hands up like he wants to slap box or soemthing. Hey, I love it. I know neither of us want to hurt the other and no force would be used.

So he bobs and weaves trying to look like some old Mantis/Monkey/drunken style type guy and attacks: VERY UNORTHODOX; angles, combos one would never expect. It caught me by surprise, I was able to neautralize him, but could help think, what if he was able to come through that way with some real power?

Here I am training against Hung Gar and Wing Chun with gloves and full power, and this little poet friend bouncing around surprised me more than any of them.

I get frustrated. Because its one of those things where you don't want to use power, we're playing, and he's 80lbs lighter than me, knows nothing, but yet, if he had power, he might have gotten in.

I think he may have known that too ... that's the frustrating part. More training. More training. More training.:(

[LEGEND]

Dood this is why MMA guys advocate crosstraining...I sparred a northern shaolin guy...got slapped around...sparred a wing chun guy...got slapped around...sparred a tkd guy got slapped around...now that I know how and what stragedy most of them are about I can slap them all around! You need to just spar different peeps...u don't want to play the same team over and over again cause u'll get use to them. It's like doing math problems and just doing 2+2=4...u don't try the other problems like 5+2 etc...in CMA cause of the loyalty of styles u get caught up and not encourage to train with other styles and that's STUPID.

[Ryu]

Evolution.
Don't sweat it too much. The problem with "play fighting" with friends is that sometimes it can get kind of personal unless they're there to really spar or fight for training. Different fighters have different ways of attacking, even people who "don't know how to fight" That's why it's important to spar with a lot of different people. I know what you're talking about though. I felt the same way when I sparred with a boxer friend of mine. I took him down and went to mount but he had me in a headlock/choke for about a minute or so before I broke it, and submitted him. But even though I won I was mad at myself for even being in a choke in the first place (regardless if it was effective or not) I felt that if he knew more about grappling maybe I would be in much worse trouble. Train train train...etc. LOL
So we all go through stuff like that. Look at it as a good thing because you realize there is something you might want to look at in your training. For me it was keeping my head up during the double leg. :) Martial art is about learning and experience. Gotta get it somewhere.

Ryu

[Ray Pina]

Right now, the guys I train with are primarily Hung Gar and Wing Chun, but I also have a few boxer friends, and just some tough guy types.

I'd say the tough guy types are the hardest, don't know what to expect, they'll do anything, and are not predictable. I've had some big advanacements the past three months, playing my game no matter what happens, realizing the area that needs to be controlled is actually small, and I stopped fishing outside the strike zone.

But this friend of mine though is soemthing else, you'd have to see him and then you'd realise how funny the situation is. He's probbaly 5'9, 110 lbs, skinny as $hit, soooo nice, tooo nice.

[shaolinboxer]

The person who suprises me the most with their play fighting techniques is my fiance.

I have found her sneak attacks more educational than much of the sparring I have done. Playfighting taught me the value of not overcommitting.

[red5angel]

Hey EF, I think there are a couple of factors playing here. First, play fighting is much different then sparring even, much less real fighting. I was in the Marine Corp, and I was shot at, I know what it is really like. Now I play Airsoft, similar to splatball. Anyway, nothing like it. In Airsoft, they are little white pellets, sting a little, you get back to playing in the next round. So you have guys running all over hell and back, no worries about takin one.
the other thing, I dont think cross training is a factor either. Everytime you fight it is going to be different. Sure the guy you fight may be a little formal but still not like anything else you fight. I think down the road, you work hard enough, you get the sensitivity you need, the reflexes you need.
The third, well Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

[Water Dragon]

My Brother-in-law is 18, 6'0" and about 230. I'm 28, 6'0" and about 175. He used to always want to play around and we push me all over the place with his weight. One time, his friend brought over some boxing gloves and my BIL started talking $hit. My responce?

Wanna box?

His reply?

OK

Let's just say the match lasted maybe 7 seconds and per my wife, we're not allowed to play anymore.

Moral?????

They might tag you, but what do they have inside of their technique?

[red5angel]

good point Waterdragon!!!

[Braden]

red5angel - How does Airsoft compare to splatball? I've been doing splatball regularly for years, but have only just heard of airsoft. The only thing I've noticed is that the community tends to be smaller and more serious. What about the actual gear and gameplay?

Legend - crosstraining isn't the same as playing with people from various backgrounds. The latter is simply common sense, and has been practiced by the most traditional style-loyalists since the beginning of time.

EvolutionFist - I've noticed the same thing, actually. The solution seems to me to be aggresiveness. If you invade their space aggresively instead of trying to 'box' them, the untrained guys usually crumble. Your bagua should be good for that. ;)

[red5angel]

Airsoft generally is a smaller community. In general, the weapons are realistic looking, the good ones. It has its advantages and disadvantages over splatball. Generally a little less range, the bb's are small dense plastic so at longer ranges you dont always feel it. They dont splat so it is on the honor system (I think fo rthis reason the community stays small as you have to trust the people you are playing with.). Otherwise the guns are exact copies, they are a little more flexible, we tend to crawl and sprawl a lot more, this usually doesnt cause the guns to jam. no messy clean up if you do jam, although you may have to stirp and clean between rounds. Otherwise same basic concept.

[Ray Pina]

With me, I'm glad my friend is taking an interest in something I love, so I fed it, but at the same time didn't want to be a bully and go in and jam him up and knock him out. He's my good friend and abit delicate.

So, when out of nowhere he attacked with some high fake/low upper cut combined with some wannabee drunken long step mantis type kick -- I was blown away. Wanted to laught, but realized I was about to get hit too.

I don't really bug about it, but its one of those things that make ya think.

[Braden]

red - That sounds pretty cool. I think I'll check it out in the spring. My splatball play style has me sprawled alot too. For some strange reason, I totally enjoy spending 40 minutes crossing three meters so you can reach out and tag someone with your barrel and they have no idea you're there. But even in splatball, it's a fairly small community that wants to play long enough games to make that play style viable. Used to be a bit better back when EVERYONE was playing 'stock class.' Ah well... memories. ;)

Thanks.

[red5angel]

No problem Braden Sorry to get sidetracked on your string EF!
By the way, do give it a try, it is a lot of fun! I've belly crawled with my MP5 across roughly 40 yards of rough and brush to cap THE ENTIRE OPPOSING TEAM from a good position under a fallen tree! Awesome!

[old jong]

Playing is a thing and fighting is another. pickaboo strikes with no power are not a big deal. and you are between friends.I dont think you can juge your skills on that. Sure sometimes a "funny strike" can go through your defenses and that is most of the times because it was not real. The same with holds like a guillotine. If I get one on someone in play,I will not squeeze 5% the way I would if it was for real! It would need a tow truck to get out of it. Believe me, I would put 150% in it! Can you do that to a friend just to prove your thing?

[shaolinboxer]

"Playing is a thing and fighting is another. pickaboo strikes with no power are not a big deal."

True, unless they are accompanied by a blade.

[old jong]

Are you going to play with someone holding a blade?...

[rubthebuddha]

or are you going to beat them like a red-headed stepchild?

(sorry jong, but your questioned needed a second part)

[old jong]

;)

[Buby]

I think it all comes down to mind set. When you're playing, you're not looking to knock your buddies head off. Now... when you spar or thug it out for real, you're alive. You're on point! So yea bro, I would say it's in the mindset.

Buby

[NorthernMantis]

Well sparring other styles isn't really cross training, it's more like sparring other styles.:D

Legend is correct.Sparring with other styles is a must.Experience is the key.I find it ironic that traditionally your not suppsed to fight one style and certain schools only do the opposite.

Take Yang Lu Chan as an example.The guy accepted challenges from other stylists and fought them, not that you should go pick fights but a friendly match is cool.

[straight blast]

This has happened with me a couple of times too. But you tend to find that your bud is throwing tremendously fast "flicky" strikes that contain no power whatsoever and that leave them completlely off balance. Sure his fingertips might brush my shoulder, but so what? Unless he's a Dim Mak expert...:D

I don't disabuse them of the notion they're doing well unless they're getting too ****y. My bro did two Muay Thai classes & I let him put a couple of thigh kicks through when we were sparring to give him something good to take away from the experience. That was fine, until a couple of friends told me how he'd run off his mouth about how he'd kicked my ass and how I really couldn't fight & so on. Needless to say, the next sparring match was a little bit different.

He's mastered control of his mouth now, anyway.

[respectmankind]

Well, to tell the truth, that is similar how I fight, as in I train (many people do this) with stances and techniques, but in an actually fights, I use teh accuracy, speed, snap, strength, reaction, coolness under pressure, and other traights I got from training to fight, although some techniques are useful, I still don't do it by the book. who does?

[respectmankind]

I forgot to add this, a good way to prepare for certain fights that will consist of someone liek that trying to hurt you, just do hard hitting sparring with people that fight like boxer/grappler.

[Jeff Liboiron]

When my friends try to play fight with me i don't even use my wing chun cause it's pointless. They don't wanna kick my ass, and i know this.

I'm sure if your friend was actually trying to kick your ass you would've dropped him right away.