Methods of conditioning your shins

[NPMantis]

Hello everybody,

I was wondering if anybody had any good methods to condition their shins, I have tried researching the internet but have had no joy.

I was also wondering if anyone knows if it is physically bad to condition your shins, often mine will hurt for 1-2 days after training - is this normal and more importantly will it lead to long-term damage or simply stronger shins?

Thank you very much for any help anyone gives!

[hughes]

A muay thai instructor told me to fill up glass bottle with water and roll it up and down shins with a reasonable amount of pressure.

[Sam Wiley]

The Shins are neither a striking surface nor a blocking surface. No matter how tough it may look for a Muy Thai fighter to block something or kick something with his shin, it is not a good idea. Doing so may result in a broken leg. I would suggest focusing on learning to strike with the correct surfaces of your body, and learning to block with the correct surfaces of your body.

That said, a little soreness after correct conditioning practice should be okay, as long as it isn't too bad to handle or doesn't last for extended periods. A day or two, that shouldn't be too bad.

What Hughes wrote doesn't sound bad, but I learned a different way of conditioning the shins a while back. You can use the same method for pretty much the whole body. Take a bamboo shinai and smack your shins up and down with it. Start light and work your way up to hard pressure.

A bit of some sort of "impact" conditioning is necessary to maintain strong bones, but going too far can weaken them. Just keep it moderate, and you shouldn't have any problems.

[SevenStar]

all you need to do is kick a bag. In muay thai, we didn't do any special conditioning other than that. a six foot, 200lb heavy bag can do wonders for shin conditioning.

Sam, what is it you have against the shins? they are awesome as a blocking surface, and save me from dropping my hands to block something low. I've broken someone's ribs with my shin - I can cause pain with my instep, but not like that. People us the fingers to strike, and the chances of breaking those from a missed dtrike is greater than me breaking my leg from a kick with the shin.

As far as whether or not it's physically bad, prolonged conditioning will deaden the nerves in your shins. You know when this begins to happen, as hair will no longer grow there. I guess that can be viewed as good and bad, depending on what you practice and what your intentions are. When you reach this phase, your shins are like baseball bats. The impact of the conditioning will improve bone density, which is a good thing, but as with anything else, don't overdo it.

[Sam Wiley]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Sam, what is it you have against the shins?

I figure the first paragraph of my post would have explained that. Actually, your post gave me another reason not to condition my shins like that...I have very hairy legs, and it would look funny to have a bald patch over my shins.;) Besides that, I don't want deadened nerves anywhere. I enjoy being able to feel with every part of my body that's meant to have feeling.

The ribs are an okay place to kick with the shin, if you want. The problem comes when people want to kick to other, sharper areas of the body with the shin than the ribs, which are broad and less likely to break your own leg.

Stomping is also good for your leg bones, sending a shockwave up the legs, and you can toughen the legs over a few years that way, and it will keep your bones nice and strong into old age. Also mild conditioning of the type we're talking about here may do so, but in a shorter time. Progressing to a stage where hair does not grow and the nerves are dead is not good for you. That alone should tell you that you are not meant to strike with that area, or else that you have conditioned that area WAY too much.

I prefer a more holistic method, and I guess this stems from my practice of the internal arts, where shortcut methods to anything are discouraged. In my opinion, shortcut methods are a shortcut to trouble.

Feel free to damage and ruin your own body. Feel free to ignore me.

[SevenStar]

I have no desire to deaden the nerves in my shins either. Like I said Moderation. Besides, I like the hair on my shins :) As far as target areas for the shin kick, it's to be used in certain areas, as are other strikes. the thigh, ribs, etc. are places where the shin kick is useful.

"Progressing to a stage where hair does not grow and the nerves are dead is not good for you. That alone should tell you that you are not meant to strike with that area, or else that you have conditioned that area WAY too much. "

I would say that it means you did it too much. look at pan qin fu's fist - and that is a striking surface. it's not that you are supposed to hit things with the fist, but he overdid it and had some wild conditioning methods, from what I hear. I like the holistic approach also, but I also like this method. And actually, by muay thai standards, this really isn't a shortcut, as there really isn't any internal training in MT. The progression is moving from a few kicks to many, from lighter kicks to full power ones.

[IronFist]

First, watch this: Shin blocks (http://www.minandjen.com/Lounge/kickbox.mpg)

I would rent Kickboxer and watch how Van Damme kicks the trees, then I would go out in my back yard and try to copy what he does. :rolleyes:

Dude I'm joking. Do NOT go around kicking trees unless you live in Thailand and have banana trees.

Do what SevenStar said. A good heavy bag is all you need. If your shins hurt the next day, you went too hard. Conditioning is gradual, if you want to keep your limbs. Consider getting some liniment to put in your shins afterward to speed healing.

Just practice your kicks on a heavy bag, and conditioning will come in time.

Iron

PS. Seriously, don't kick trees.

[SevenStar]

In case you begin to wonder, bananna trees are softer. You don't wanna kick any other tree. Stick with a bag.

[Sevan]

Ok, here I have a question for ya Sam,

Why is it that you think shins are not for blockin???


As I played soccer for 7 yrs, and no not just freindly rec leagues, and well most of the guys I played with had increadibly strong shins. I played from 9-16 yrs old. Also our coach for the last three years was a former coach in the semi-pro leagues in mexico, and if you know much about Mexico(and many other nations) soccer isnt viewed as a little thing.

If you know much about soccer you'll know the shins are used extensively, not that one should but foul play and the 'americian' way of playing the player and not the ball come into effect.

Also I've noticed that in the last two years alone, I'm now 18, I havent done anything to condition my shins and they are increadibly sensitive, to the point of being disgraceful. And just recently I've been doing stuff to counter the sensitivity.

Well, enough for now.

btw, no I'm not hispanic, i'm just about as white...well nevermind the sarcasm as ppls seem to get overly sensitive(yes, pun intended)

[xiong]

I was tauaght two person drills for limb conditioning. We did Sam Sing (Three Stars) and something similar for the shins and thighs.

Basically the idea is you face your partner and work a pattern of blocks and strikes that cover the surfaces you are trying to condition. The main caveat that we had was beware of bruises. Do not train on bruises, let them heal before resuming this kind of training.

Massaging the area after conditioning is important, and I personally like to use Dit Da Jow.

If you don't have a partner to train with kicking and doing Sam Sing against a bag is a great substitute, unfortunately a bag can't kick you in the thigh to condition that. Rubbing a cylindrical object up and down your shin also works.

Lastly I seem to recall Mike Young making a PVC pipe dummy for shin conditioning. He basically took a bunch of 1/2" pvc pipe and made a bundle out of it and set it in a bucket filled with concrete. Basically making his own flexible plastic "tree".

[taijiquan_student]

we don't condition our shins, but we have a two person "banging arms and legs" drill to condition the inside and outside of the forearm. On the leg we condition the tendon right beside the shin, on the outside of the foot. After a while, this part begins to grow over to the shin. The leg doesn't look any different than before, but you can take really strong straight on kicks to the shin.

Quick story about the leg conditioning: One time a guy in China challenged my teacher to some contest (it was fairly friendly, I think), and he kicked him as hard as he could in the shin, straight on (I think you're still sensitive on the shin going in from the inside of the leg). It didn't bother my teacher much at all, not enough to move or change his facial expression. The guy didn't want to take his turn to get kicked, so he backed out.

[Sam Wiley]

I've played soccer, too. And baseball, and a bunch of other sports besides. I've had my shins kicked and stomped and abraded from more angles and people than I care to remember. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the shins are meant to be used to block. They are not.

If you want to use your shins to block, go for it. They're your legs and I don't give a flying f*ck if you limp for the rest of your life or not. I have enough problems with my legs without adding a broken bone.

[NPMantis]

Thank you all so much, you've all been so helpful!

I was also wondering do any of you use any chinese medicines to help the bones recover faster if they hurt a little after conditioning? I have heard dit da jow, but I thought this was for more external injuries? I never really hurt physically after training, just occasionally the bones shins will hurt for a day or so after.

I really liked the rolling method and kicking a bag - I will incorporate them into my training. The dowel idea also looks like it is worth a try.

Thanks again everyone!

[SevenStar]

jow.

[ElPietro]

Nothing Sam said makes very much sense at all in this thread. You aren't supposed to block with your shins? What kinda ******* statement is that? So I guess blocking with your forearms, and striking with other parts of your body is less stressful? Or you just made up that rule on your own right now eh? I guess all of us muay thai practitioners might as well just give up now as sam doesn not approve. Just because you practice internal doesn't mean you apply it to hard styles. And the only suggestion you gave on shin conditioning is also incorrect. Don't tap your shins lightly with anything. Sure rolling pin and all that crap can maybe help a bit, but if you train properly your conditioning will come. Listen to sevenstar and just train on your heavy bag and thai pads and it will come in time. With patience is how you should train any part of your body, people are always impatient. If you are sore rest. When you are better train. It's simple.

BTW I won't limp because I've trained properly, although you may develop a limp from not conditioning your body and having the misfortune of running into someone who has.

Sam with your logic we should never strike at all.

[xiong]

Rubbing the area (shin or forearm) is to try and disperse any blood clots, the Jow will help this even more. I was also taught when massaging to rub down to the bone, what that does exactly I'm not sure but it feels good.

[fa_jing]

That movie of the guy breaking his leg was shocking. :eek:
We don't use the shin to block in Wing Chun, but we do use the lower leg!! The inside, outside, back, but not the shin bone itself, at least we try not to. Also, we use the lower leg mostly to deflect a thrusting or straight kick, not to "take" a round kick. The bottom of the foot would be more likely for blocking a round kick.
Just my 2 cents.
-FJ

[phantom]

What if you wrapped some kind of padding around a tree? A kyokushinkai guy told me that he wraps a bed mattress around a tree and lightly taps his shins against it. What do you guys think of this?

[red_fists]

Hi Phantom.

A lot of People wrap trees or Wooden Poles and use them for striking practice.

For the rest:

Dit Ta Jow has both external creams and "wines" that are supposed to be drunk.

The same way that some Qi-Gong have an external and an internal training.

Most of the times you train first the external one and than later on move to the internal one which requires less striking, more meditation and often the drinking of some herbal supplement.

As for deadening the nerves, I think that once your nerves are dead you loose a lot of "sensation" and thus are more prone to injuries.

Also one of my Instructors often said that a proper martial artists that has toughened himself should not have callouses or externally tough parts.
He sez a person correctly trained in Iron Palm should have a soft, smooth Skin on his hands.

[David Jamieson]

The shins are a valid striking and blocking surface.

There are methods of conditioning them.
The favoured method that produces quick results these days is as stated the "rolling pin" method.

whereby the practitioner rolls a rolling pin up and down the shin for a set amount of times over a set period of time. Use of Dit Da Jow is only helpful here.

The Shaolin method is to wrap a tree with bamboo staves, then to wrap the staves with padded cotton.
Start to kick lightly and progress a little harder.
after a time, remove the padding until all that remains are the bamboo staves.
when these are splintered, replace them and continue with this surface.

Kicking a tree with substantial force is not the best thing to do, the tree will win everytime :D

the bamboo will absorb a lot of force and not spit it back at you and therefore, the bamboo staves should always be used in this conditioning.

in any kung exercise, the destruction of the nerve is not the way to go. it is not recommended to strike so hard or to deaden the nerves in anyway.

conditioning is "getting used" to feeling the force, it has nothing to do with destroying your nerves.

peace

[ji way lung]

i dunno about anyone else, but when i rub my shin bone really hard with just my fingers, i feel these little bumps (cartiledge?) and it sorta hurts. it's not extremely painful, but enough to make me think the shins are a pretty sensitive place naturally. i tried it against my forearms and i don't feel a thing. do you guys stretch before kicking the heavy bag? just to warm up the muscles?

[phantom]

Thanks, guys! I really appreciate it. Peace.

[Radhnoti]

I was in the KFO chat room tonight and mentioned that I was about to start shin conditioning. We're going to use an iron cylindrical bar and roll it up and down our shins. Everyone seemed to think I was part of a cult and told me I'd be foolish to pursue it...
The training is optional, but I was planning on checking it out. I don't imagine there'd be much difference between an iron bar and any other rolling cylinder...since (I assume) the individual will determine the pressure by how hard they press down.

I've got the dents and bumps on my shins too...does that mean it'll hurt more? And who do you talk to about "marrow washing chi gong"? Thanks.

[xiong]

I agree with you that what the roller is made of is of little consequence, as long as you are not beating your shins you should be fine.

I also have little bumps/dents on my shins and I don't think it is that unusual. I don't know where to go for the marrow washing/ tendon changing qi gong other than the books by Yang Jwing Ming or Mantak Chia. I have read neither.

[premier]

Sam,

Why shouldn't you kick with the shins? It's a lot stronger area than insteps. I'd rather take 100 elbow strikes to my shins than one to my instep.