a guy in my kung fu class got jumped

[brucelee2]

A guy in my kung fu class got jumped. He's a beginner in kung fu but has been boxing and kickboxing and stuff all his life. Three guys jumped him for his rolex and stuff. he said he was winning until they pulled out a gun, at which point they made him get on his knees, tied him up, and then all started kicking him. He went to the hospital, got 10 stitches, and had part of his ear cut off. He's still got a black eye(s). Kinda makes you think, huh? ...and want to train. Crazy world.

[redfist]

he should have given them the watch,
he`s lucky to be alive.
he over estimated himself and under estimated his attackers,
of course they had a gun,they were robbing him.
there was three of them to intimidate him into compliance
and that is what you should do.
unless you perceive that they will use deadly force or cause
serious bodily harm to you,
how do you know that?one way to know,
is if they try to move you from the area of the initial encounter,
then do your worst,if you can`t run.

[Jeff Liboiron]

f.u.c.k.i.n guns, they make the biggest pansies invincible.

But yeah, he should've given them the watch and other stuff

[KungFuGuy!]

There's too many people who take jet li movies seriously :rolleyes:
Unless they outright attack you, you don't try to fight. Run away or listen to them, don't try to be a hero. Not to long ago someone posted a link to a news site where some fool chased after these guys who tried to steal his car. When he found them, they killed him. Now he's being called a "hero". Gimme a break, he should be called a loser.

[Paul]

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback (or whatever).
Nobody here knows what happened, he may not have had the chance to run. They might have ambushed him out of the blue thinking he would go down easy, who knows.

It sucks that it happened, I hope he is going to okay.

[KungFuGuy!]

No, an armchair martial artist would have said "Pfft, I woulda kicked all their @sses and took their wallets".

[respectmankind]

not to sound arrogant, but i would have, then made them participate in a gay porn. well, after i wake up in teh hospital from trying that, i will have thought about teh gay porn thing.

[Leonidas]

That guy is the man in my book. He didn't over/underestimate anyone. Maybe you missed the part where he was winning until those pu$$ies pulled out a gun on him. If they didn't pull out a weapon on him he shoulda beat 'em all to death. It has nothing to do with trying to be the next Jet Li. Maybe you forgot what Martial Arts are for. There not meant for finding enlightenment, following a spirtual path or making yourself healthier although those are good side effects. He did what he had to which is defend himself. Maybe some people should take up Jazzercise or Yoga if their willing to take it in the ass like that. I decided a long time ago not to give in to cowards. I dont have a death wish but i'm fighting till i see a gun or another reason not to.

[redfist]

whens the last time you fought 3 people?
how about 2?
studying martial arts is about intelligence.
as well as fighting,you know,
survival strategy.
in a situation like that assessment is critical,
if you have to,fight,even if your outnumbered,
if you don`t,look for other options.

i`m not a tough guy,
all the tough guys i know are either dead or in jail.

he`s lucky to be alive,if you ask him i`m sure he will he will tell you.

[brucelee2]

As a matter of fact, on the phone he did say 'he was lucky to be alive', but I can't remember if those were his words or a quote from the doctor at the hospital he was taken to.

[KungFuGuy!]

So leo, if a group of guys said "give us your watch" you'd bust out on them? That's just plain stupid whether you win or lose. However, if they attack you and you fight back, that's fine. In fact, that's what you probably should do, lol.
However, putting material possessions or "pride" in front your own safety is a very dumb thing to do. Run away or comply, don't start a fight.

[Wu Wei]

When I was younger I was walking through a dark field then I heard someone say "GET HIM!!" I looked and saw three guys running right towards me.
I hesitated and I thought "Im a pretty tough guy" then I thought "Theres three of them" So I ran.

I ran towards the nearest building (it was a school) which was well lit and there were many many people around the corner since there was a dance there that night. When I was a lot closer to the light I saw a friend of mine walking towards me with his girlfriend.
So I stopped and quickly explained these guys wanted to beat me up and that he should help me fight them, and his girlfriend should leave. I figured we were close enough to the well lit crowd that people should notice soon enough.

Turns out I knew a few of the guys and they were playing a joke on me. I didn't know though, it was too dark. My other friend thought I was a bit of a coward for running and I was mad at myself for a long time. But since I started training and thinking about survival, I realized that I did the right thing.

I was lucky that they were joking around.
But it was skill that made me run way faster than them. ;)

Just thought I'd share a story.

[Water Dragon]

I love my Gong Fu. And I have faith in it. But I still carry a gun and a knife for personal defense.

[Paul]

But I still carry a gun and a knife for personal defense.

That's a personal decision.

Dude, I like guns and all, but I could never carry one around just in case. I have lived in some crappy neighborhoods in Chicago, but never had the urge to carry a gun. Everyone is different.

[Water Dragon]

Yes, it is a personal decision.

[sanchezero]

I carry a gun.

A few days ago a woman in Richmond,VA was ferrying a couple o'kids across town. Some guys were hangin out in the street, blocking traffic, shootin the sh!t, talkin to the bettys, whatever. This lady makes it known (horn, gesture, screaming, who knows) that she needs them to step aside so she can drive on.

They shoot her in the head, shes dead. One of the kids takes a bullet.

My hope is that people will just run over these dingalings in the street from now on. The best part - it's usually legal to do so. :)

[GOLDEN ARMOR]

Is that why we train so hard in martial arts, so when it comes down to the crunch we say here take my couple of thousand $ watch, my wallet & keys when their got youre address. Im not trying to come off as a hero & understand what everyones saying.
But i think that the reasons i gave are worth fighting 4. Its not like the guy knew they had a gun, besides seems like he had some martial skills & if u seen many people fight ull know that many cant even thow a proper punch. I even seen some prof. fighers on tv that couldnt punch wright. Its not just over the $ Its the principle, thats 1 of the reasons we do martial arts(self defence) to defend ourseves when the time comes. Im not stupid if i was really outnumbered or they had a gun i would have to swallow my pride. I would have fought, most times if u hit the guy closest to u with everything youre got & bust his face open(blood flyes) or a hard brutal snap kick to the balls(sending them up out threw his mouth):p. I doubt the other 2 would stay around, even if they do theres only 2 left. Anyway hope youre friend gets better, carrying a gun around everywhere is a bit risky. U will end up in jail, i would recomend, what i carry occasionaly my best mate thats always there 2 give me a extra hand.(knuckle Busters)
:D ;)

[Ryu]

"at which point they made him get on his knees, tied him up, and then all started kicking him. "

What??! :mad: Well it's not you fault, but your story has ****ed me off for the rest of the night! I can't stand that kind of ****.
And no, I'm going to tell you guys right now that martial arts aren't enough to make you safe on the street. That is going to be really controversial, but it's the truth. :mad:
If you're going to attack in that kind of situation, kill with a gun of your own. :mad:

Give them your rolex, then shoot them in the back as they leave, then take your rolex back, and shoot them one more time for fun.

Ryu

[Ryu]

LOL
I just realized how incredibly opposite my post on here and the one on Prana's thread was.... :)

Sigh....it's easy to see the things I just don't accept huh?

Ryu

[respectmankind]

Ryu, if I had not read the name of the user who wrote that, I would never of guessed it was calm and collective you.

[Ryu]

Making someone helplessly suffer is a good way to bring the "violence" out of me....

That I'll admit. To be honest, I think it's good to be angered at terrible things.

Ryu

[anton]

Originally posted by KungFuGuy!
So leo, if a group of guys said "give us your watch" you'd bust out on them? That's just plain stupid whether you win or lose. However, if they attack you and you fight back, that's fine. In fact, that's what you probably should do, lol.


I was always taught not to wait for your opponent to attack - IMO its usually best to throw the first punch as soon as you see that someone is a threat.

I know people that have been in similar situations (minus the gun). It's up to the individual to make the judgement.
If I was mugged by three people (without visible weapons) that I honestly thought I could beat up, that's exactly what I would do.

Obviously if they pulled a gun or a syringe full of blood I would comply without a thought.

[Leonidas]

**** Straight. I would go all out with every killing move i know. They probably would of still tied the guy up even if he submitted.

Heres a story for you to think about. My cousin had a friend who was walking by one day minding his own business. When some muggers came out and surrounded him. I dont know how many, but they pulled a gun on him straight away. Anyways they wanted all the money and jewelry he had. He gave it to them freely as some of you suggested. Now these guys were pretty hardcore and ruthless, you know in gangs, pushing drugs, basically proffesional criminals. So anyways, even though he gave them the money they still shot him. The reason, they though he was a pu$$y for not standing up for himself. Thats the double standard people have to contend with these days

[respectmankind]

The second someone shows aggresion like that is when you know that all roads have been removed, and before they drew teh gun, he should have put his fist into teh throat with teh intent to kill, once they are on teh ground, then that mercy crap can come in

[respectmankind]

the reason he was bested was because he hesitated on being ruthless, shouldn't take more than 3 seconds to solve that problem

[respectmankind]

well, getting stabbed is worse

[respectmankind]

know what sucks, trying to make it in Alaska. severaly off topic, exspecialy considering i am up at 3 in the morning, and could come up with a better response than this

[Leonidas]

Getting stabbed is worse than being shot. Are you serious?

I'd say it depends on the bullet used but you cant honestly say a sharpened shard of metal is worse than a bullet filled with gunpowder traveling the speed of sound, playing pinball with your organs and possibly going through your lungs, heart and stomach before it stops. They can both kill you of course but i know of people who were stabbed multiple times and survived. I've actually seen someone stabbed six times in the back and survive.

[Merryprankster]

Bullets which are travelling don't have gunpowder in them....not trying to be jerk!

[Leonidas]

Naw your right, i was just trying to make a point.

[respectmankind]

well, a stab wound leave a bigger wound. a bullet doesn't cause that much damage compared to a knife, but is more effective due to its use. an dyou described a light gun, one that plays pinball, and those actually are less deadly than a big ol gun. m 16 versus an 5o cal ae. there is a major difference

[ji way lung]

I would have fought the death. cowards like that truly disgust me. :mad: Even if i got shot and died, i would have least tried to take one of them to the grave with me. my friend just bought a brand new car, and some f*cking b@stards bashed his dad for the car keys! imagine that, a gang of 5 youths beating an old man for a car! f*cking pi$$ me off!!!!!!! :mad: :mad:

[respectmankind]

I know buddy. that is exactly why i train. human filth.

[Leonidas]

Yea ok. I'd still rather get stabbed than shot. Its not about the wound but about whats happening inside. A knife can go so far. A dog could take a chunk outta me and it would look pretty life threatening.

[respectmankind]

the wound is teh damage, teh bigger teh wound, the more damage to teh body, thus (generaly speaking) death is closer, and also the more blood you lose. but i understand what you mean
a knife does sound better lol

[Leonidas]

Thats not true. If someones arm got blown off, i'd call that the biggest wound you could get but thousands of people survived that. Its all about your organs 'man. You can survive almost anything if your organs are still intact and you stop the bleeding. A knife might not even make it past the ribcage but the smallest bullest will.

[jun_erh]

"all the tough guys i know are either dead or in jail. "
- I agree, but you'll never convince most of the folks here of that, particularly when the mob type mentality sets in.No offense...

-I had a friend who got stabbed AFTER he willingly handed over his wallet. He was dealing heroin in a neighborhood generally associated with this activity. Solution?: don't sell heroin!!

-I'm curious about the situation. Where were they that they had time to tie him up. Did they kidnap him? Am I missing something

[redfist]

i`m not trying to convince anybody of anything,
my perception is that a forum is a place to be able to state our views,
this is america,i love this country,
i will fight to the death for my freedom of speech,
but not over a watch,or a car,or money.
however,if it comes down to someone trying to take my life over
my watch,or a car,or money.
and i perceive that the perpatratiors intention is to cause death or seriouse bodily harm,in the commission of said act,
i will employe every survival strategy i know to prevent him from carrying out this act,and recommend this to anyone,
you have nothing left to lose.

read sun tzu`s-"art of war."

[Braden]

Rant editted for the subtext impaired.

- Saying you'll attack someone before they show aggression is a little silly, since you're surrounded by people all the time, and you just can't go around beating them all up.

- Saying you'll attack someone as soon as they show aggression is a little silly. The escalation of violence in these encounters isn't how it is in the ring, kwoon, or movies. You'll have someone asking for directions one second, and a knife in your kidney the next second. There's no in between state.

- Saying you'll attack someone only if they don't have a knife, gun, or syringe is silly because people don't advertise what weapons they carry. As seen in this example, they will wait until you've played your hand before pulling out the weapon. They will wait for you to clinch before pulling the knife and sticking it in you. His buddy will wait for you to swing before pulling a gun and putting it to your head.

- Saying you'll die to protect your pride is just plain silly.

- Saying knife wounds cause more damage than bullet wounds is just plain silly.

- Implying that someone is a *****, badass, or hero is silly. These words have no meaning in real confrontations. They get thrown out the window and replaced simply with 'survive' - on both sides of the encounter. There's no such thing as a real badass, the way they're percieved. A real badass lives a miserable, paranoid life, and becomes a badass by doing things which would make you call him a *****. At risk of sounding judgemental - the people going on about what they would or wouldn't have done, and calling people these names haven't the foggiest clue what they're talking about.

Brucelee2 - Take any chance you can to help your bud relax over the next two months. He'll have a tough time with all the head games these things play with you. But when he's through it, he'll have learnt more about self defense than you can from a thousand martial arts classes. My condolences. No one should have to deal with these terrible things happening to them.

[redfist]

take it easy big guy,

if you examine my post closley you will see that it is a general
outline to the letter of the law in most states,
relax,
this is an open forum,
people will say what they want,
remember,we are operating under non-emergent conditons from the safety of our consules.
this is a good time to talk about such matters,
how could anyone rationaly disregard your advice?
do what you have to survive.
now the part about tracking them to there house,
if you are caught,you will go to prison for murder,
why?
first the immeadicy of need to act no longer exists,ie;the threat no longer exists,
second,you pre-meditated the act and,
third,you used a level of force which was greater then the force they used against you,and back to the first example.

if a women being raped shoots the perpatratior while he is attempting to commit the act,she is justified,
if afterwards she tracks them and kills them she is not.
at this point she would be obligated to report it to local law enforcement to make the arrest.
thats the way it is like it or not.

don`t forget the "hocky dad",the judge gave him a break,
he could have thrown away the key and, did not.

[Braden]

I was, of course, NOT advocating tracking someone down and killing them in their sleep.

[redfist]

yes your correct!

i just was looking for an opportunity to address such an important
matter in regards to the initial post and i used your message as a springboard,

thank you for being fisicious.

[brucelee2]

He was in a park at around 8:30 at night.

[Ryu]

Where do you live?

Please don't say LA......I already have issues with someone I love moving down there...

Ryu

[DelicateSound]

I got rolled at 13 for a pack of ***s [I don't even smoke?!]

If I knew then what I know now, I'd break their arms off and cram'em up their arses. That's what I train for :)

[Ray Pina]

Sorry to hear about your training brother.

Kind of off topic. Many times I view being a martial artists as knowing where to walk and how. Not heading into unlit, unpopulated areas that you are unfamiliar with, or if so, be in the street, open, away from ambush, notice parked cars that could be used to block off attack for a chance to run, but, most of all, carry oneself not like a victim.

3 on 1 sounds unfair a measure to judge this man. 3 on 1 with a gun, impossible. Bad break. Lucky to be alive.

[respectmankind]

Well, in all reality, the most common guns used on the street, WILL leave less damage than a knife. It IS a fact. Not saying that a **** gun that can take your arm off, example: .50, will leave less damage. We were talking about a certain situation, and I may not have made it clear, but my post was in reference of the topic and a reply. And, if you listened, I said damage, not effectivness, or effecient.

[anton]

Originally posted by Braden
Rant editted for the subtext impaired.

- Saying you'll attack someone before they show aggression is a little silly, since you're surrounded by people all the time, and you just can't go around beating them all up.
If you're referring to my comment, I never said that I think you should attack before the opponent shows aggression. I said the attack (IMHO) should ideally be made before the opponent makes his attack. You can usually tell that someone wants to fight before they attack you.




- Saying you'll attack someone as soon as they show aggression is a little silly. The escalation of violence in these encounters isn't how it is in the ring, kwoon, or movies. You'll have someone asking for directions one second, and a knife in your kidney the next second. There's no in between state.
This hasn't been my experience in most situations. When I and people I know have been mugged someone usually comes up, sometimes they pull out a weapon, then they say something along the line of, "give me your wallet/phone/shoes". Here in Aus its usually either a tough guy (like a big ass maori or some hard bloke covered in tattoos) - in which case i would probably comply, or (as is usually the case) its some desperate junkie.




- Saying you'll attack someone only if they don't have a knife, gun, or syringe is silly because people don't advertise what weapons they carry. As seen in this example, they will wait until you've played your hand before pulling out the weapon. They will wait for you to clinch before pulling the knife and sticking it in you. His buddy will wait for you to swing before pulling a gun and putting it to your head.
Once again this has not been my experience. Usually (in mugging situations) people do advertise their weapons in the hope that they can rob me without having a physical altercation. Maybe they think they can get away with this because I look like a ***** who won't retaliate (which I wont if they have a weapon) - i dunno.



- Saying you'll die to protect your pride is just plain silly.

- Saying knife wounds cause more damage than bullet wounds is just plain silly.
I totally agree with ou on both points - especially the first.



- Implying that someone is a *****, badass, or hero is silly. These words have no meaning in real confrontations. They get thrown out the window and replaced simply with 'survive' - on both sides of the encounter. There's no such thing as a real badass, the way they're percieved. A real badass lives a miserable, paranoid life, and becomes a badass by doing things which would make you call him a *****. At risk of sounding judgemental - the people going on about what they would or wouldn't have done, and calling people these names haven't the foggiest clue what they're talking about.
To me a hero is someone with way too much gel in his hair who walks around in tight T-shirts flexing his pecs.
I agree that noone can say what they would or would not have done as we don't even know the circumstances of the situation.
As for "badasses" and "tough-guys" - they do exist. Both sides are trying to survive, but people that are tough will survive more often than others. As an example: I know a guy who got out of a confrontation with 10 guys just by looking them in the eye and giving the impression that he meant it. This guy's been in fights against weapons, superior numbers, sometimes even while at various levels of intoxication. When you spar against someone like this they can make you **** your pants just by staring at you. You feel sort of like a rabbit mesmerised by the tiger's gaze, suddenly you can hardly move, forget about throwing punches.
I know its a cliche but some people have "the eye of the tiger". Look at any Bruce Lee movie, and you can tell the guy's been in plenty of real fights - he always looks like he means it.



Brucelee2 - Take any chance you can to help your bud relax over the next two months. He'll have a tough time with all the head games these things play with you. But when he's through it, he'll have learnt more about self defense than you can from a thousand martial arts classes. My condolences. No one should have to deal with these terrible things happening to them.
True, true. Very good advice.