what is northern manits strong points?

[fiercest tiger]

What are the strong points in the northern mantis system, more hands then legs, throws or trapping/locking?

What makes n/mantis effective?


what is your favourite part of the mantis system?

thanks in advance:D
FT

[NPMantis]

Northern Styles mainly consist of more kicks than southern styles, this is because of the landscape in the two different parts of china (ie. hills).

It is effective because there are no flowery movements. It is a useful system, especially if you are physically strong, which is shown by the many strong stances used.

Effectively it is a modified form of Shaolin Lohan Long Hand Kung Fu, I have not practiced any other form of kung fu (although I did a bit of karate when younger) but I do really rate it as a system, both in terms of an art and a street fighting system.

It has plenty of grabs/locks and weapons as well in the system which makes it fairly well rounded I think. There are throws too.

My favourate parts of the system are the kicks as they are so effective. High kicks are also used which means you will become a lot more flexible, thought they would never be used in a fight situation the more flexible you are, the stronger your kicks are a low levels as they can be faster due to less resistance in terms of flexibility.

It is a very external form of kung fu which I like. There is conditioning involved. I love the method of blocks (of which there are many) such as grabs (which rely on a strong grip - this is one of the parts of the training) and solid blocks.

The main points to the system (as many others!) are power and speed.

[NorthernMantis]

Footwork is a big thing with northern mantis.It attacks both the upper and lower body simultanously.

What I mean in footwork is both kicking and moving.The hands distract while the legs move in quick for the set up and shake your balance while keeping your upper body busy.

Footwork changes from system to system.Real hardcore mantis guys will move in quick with fast hands and get a good position on you where it's hard to defend or attack from with out making yourself succeptible to being hit.In mantis you move into the opponent but to the sides out of harms way.

Another thing that mantis does is that it creates oppenings and is known ofr simultaneous attack and defend other than just block then attack.

The styles of praying mantis are deceptive with both hands and feet attcking in ways the opponent wont expect.

There is a saying in mantis that a memeber on this board used to say.If I remeber correctly the pesron said that the praying mantis motto was aim high to attack low, aim low to attack high.

[Mantis9]

I agree with NorthernMantis and NPMantis. I would like to add that mantis is a system based on 12 character principles. This allows the mantis practioner flexiblity in thought and application.

I have watched other styles and systems; being please to witness how "mantis" a technique or application is and how I, as a mantis practioner, may deal with it. This allows the mantis practioner to "fill in the weak spots" with out leaving the system for greener pastures.

I am always amazed to witness the comprehensiveness of Northern Mantis. It is an intelligent system.

[NPMantis]

Hi Mantis9,

yeah I love Mantis, people who know nothing of it may have visions of it being a rigid system with flowery fists and embroidered kicks - but they obviously haven't studies it! I love the fact it teaches you to be a complete fighter and there are many different levels of defence/attack depending on the situation and force required.

Take care bud.

[Faarooq]

One thing that I would like to add that I like about the Mantis system is speed.

In addition to the hooking and the footwork, the hand speed is really awesome.

[Shadowboxer]

What about the chin-na and striking pressure/accupressure points?

[NPMantis]

Mantis is really powerful, you mainly strike vulrable points of the body. In my style the three main striking points are the throat, eyes and groin. If it doesn't have much effect why use it?

As regards chin na, there are a vast amount of various locks and holds used - although you are not bewildered with hundreds of pointless moves, they are all potent.

Like any art, different classes will focus on different things, personally I believe mantis turns you into a complete fighter, there is nothing left out which would benefit you, although there is not much ground fighting work, understanding the concepts behind the chin na will help you a great deal in a ground situation.

I hope this answers your question!

Take care mate,

Mantis

[NorthernMantis]

Hmm.. I wonder if FT has seen this?

[fiercest tiger]

So it seems that chin na is a strong point as well as kicking?

i did hapkido for 4 years prior my YKM system, hapkido has many locks throws and many kicks would you say that there could be a link in this? 2 different countries and styles but similar throws and kicks, could have hapkido lent from mantis or visaversa?

sorry i didnt get back to you guys had a bad storm that fu(ked up my suburb!

later
FT

[Stacey]

Hapkido's super stuff is the equivalent to NPM basic material.

More similar than different actually.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I know you said that mantis doesnt have much in the way of ground work , but that is not true of every mantis style.

Our style ba bu tang lang (8 step) has 240 ground fighting techniques called ground hugging footwork that is used when fighting from a fallen postion.

But I agree with your statement that mantis makes you a well rounded fighter and doesnt leave much out in the way of combat.

[fiercest tiger]

I dont think so!!:o

Maybe you need to check a hapkido school out, there first lesson and all lessons are locks, throws, kicks and punching.

n/mantis starts with stances and forms! am i wrong? :)

[isol8d]

If I understood Stacey's statement correctly, the Chin Na in mantis systems is similar to Hapkido.

Nothing to do with the order of what you learn, just the actual techniques themselves.

I've only seen a little Hapkido(and Aikido), and it does look similar to the chin na techniques I know.

[yu shan]

Mantis conditioning exercises
In this thread no one has mentioned conditioning. In your respective Mantis styles, do you have cond. exercises?

[NPMantis]

Sounds interesting, I have never heard of that style before, do you have a web site I could look at?

Thanks


yu shan - We use much conditioning, mantis is a relatively external form of kung fu and conditioning is one of the strong points, if you touch hands with a mantis student it will hurt, nearly every striking surface is conditioned and blocks are also considered to be strikes so will also hurt the opponent.
The main conditioning we do is through practice, ie. the techniques used will condition you on each other. We also do various other exercises (which you build up over time) which are a bit hard to explain, one of my favourate examples for hands is where you lie flat on your stomach, lift your upper body off the ground (using your lower back) and on coming down to the floor again strike it (obviously you start off gently and slowly get harder over time), we will do say 10-20 strikes on each striking surface of our hands - fist, palm, knife hand, fingers, back of hands. Another example is for shins - we use some methods but the best one of through practice, if you go to kick another rmember of the class in practice they will block with the hard side of their forearm, which will gradually build up tolerance.

Hope this helps!

[Stacey]

www.8step.com


go to blackbeltmagazine.com and go to their search engine. Type in Deceptive footwork. There is an article by Jan Hallander about Master James Sun and 8 Step.

[yu shan]

NPMantis
I totally agree if you touch hands with a Mantis stylist, you will hurt. Big time!
First example of conditioning, Lie flat on stomach, reach up w/arms, we use this exercise for Lion dance wrap around. Strengthens the lower back also flexibility. Help me if I`m mis-interpret .
Shin conditioning-
Let`s say face each other left side facing, person #1 kicks w/right-instep to #2`s left shin, #2 lifts up n independence stance or in WL golden chicken, then repeat. When #2 goes into gldn chicken,you kick the **** out of their shin,this is repeated over and over, always at the end of class. This is a very basic conditioning exercise in Pong LAI. Have a Great weekend!

[NPMantis]

Dear Yu Shan,

We do that shin conditioning too - it's nasty!

I love Mantis, we are all obviously biased to our own systems, but I could never imagine wanting to do anything else, I love the fact there there are no flowery movements.

Having said that though, I am looking to start another art in June when my exams are over and I get more time. I am genuinely interested in seing all arts, I definately want to do a Southern Style - probably Wing Chun.

Take care,

Mantis

[PaulLin]

Well, just tell what I know.....
The throwing and Na techniques needs the striking foundation to support it's further development. Such as how to open the door, enter hands, firm postures, foot works, body movement controlls, how to take in and send out forces.....etc. Yet, Japanese arts has no such foundation at all, they starts with actuall trowing and Na, that is not their advantage, it is their flaw. To try to grow the top without enough root is not correct. I have knowledge in Shiao-Lin 36 basic Chin Na and Grandmaster Chang's Shuai Chiao. They showed this aspect very clear.
In 8 step, Grandmaster Wei thought that ground fight needs to be short and clean. No unclear or animal-like struggles on ground. Back on foot as soon as possible. The long ground struggle is un human styles.
Ground movements has only appeared in 2 parts of the chapters. only 3 moves. low sweep is not considered ground fighting technique.
8 steps usually not attack first. There are 8 hard and 12 soft hands in our systems. over 80% movements are in respond to attack rather to make the first move. About another 10% is fake attack that are use to react to oponent's responding moves.
When we say South Boxing and North Leg (Nan Chuan Bei Tui), noticing that it says leg, not kick. Kick is only a part of leg use. The major use of leg in steps and create whole body strike force. In 8 step, any kick is a risky move, they must have a open/control hand skill before them. Other than the Tornado Kick in 8 step, all other kicks must rely on the standing leg to suport the kick force. That is as more forces the kick is sending out, more the standing leg will sink into the earth. (this is the big different in comparison with TaeKwunDo's kick)
forarm trianing is a must have foundation in 8 step. I think alll montis should have it too. It is the signature part of mantis.

[yu shan]

NPmantis
Excuse my ignorance here, I assume you do Mantis? Are you thinking of leaving a Mantis sytle to do Wing Chun? If so, that is a**backwards. I have only seen people go from WC up to Mantis. As for doing a southern style, Choy Lee Fut (Lee Kwoon Hung`s) lineage would be my choice, Great fighters! Have a good day.

Fiercest Tiger
Are you from Australia? One of my best Gong fu brothers is from Melbourne. N/Mantis starts with stances/forms, not true. My first day with Pong Lai, I left with a bloody-lip, and severe pain in shins and calf muscle.

Stacey
Hapkido`s super stuff can`t even match up to Mantis, we are far too superior, no questions asked. Read your history folks.

PaulLin
Thank you for the post, what are some forarm conditioning exercises in your style? I`ll gladly share.

Faaroog
Speed is power don`t you think?

[NPMantis]

Hey mate,

no, there's no way I'd leave mantis! I am just interested in seeing another style.

I have never heard of Choy Lee Fut before (my knowledge of southern styles is very limited) and can't find it on www.bccma.org.uk (Chinese Martial Assoc. in England). But I will have a search of the internet to find out more. Thank you for your suggestion!

Best regards,

Mantis

[SaMantis]

NPMantis,

Here's a link to the Choy Lay Fut school in Florida:

http://www.leekoonhungkungfu.com/

Also, some CLF players post on the Southern Kung Fu forum here, maybe they can give you some more info.

:)

Sam

[PaulLin]

yu shan:

We train our forarm by starts from external and develop to internal. The location of the forarm is at where it needed for the application. Such as in Guin Lo Shuo(rolling and leak in hand), Chin Long Bai Wei(blue dragon swings tail), and Fan Shen Bon Pi(body flipped and back fist strike follow by split hammer fist).

Instead of practice on dead object, we practice on live arms. Starts with your own arms. until they reach a certain level of pressure resistance, then starts the 2 people train.

During the 2 people train, one will need to move the external aspects to the internal. That is rather than forcing the pressures to forarm, one will concentrate on the meridian instead. It will goes form the fist all the way to the center of foot. Until one can pass the force successfully from the forarm to the ground through the center of feet without the force make result in the body and break the meridian path. By focusing on the meridian path, one must take the whole chi network system in consideration according to the purpose of the chi. The main idea is to take the Ho Ten(postnatal) force to help complete the jobs of Shien Ten(prenatal) enegy. For example, one can pass the viberation form the forarm along the meridian to the body parts that needed the breaking down forces and safe the prenatal energy(that is already in your body) to used in the counter part of job--preserve and collecting.

After that, one will start to move around eachother while training with forarm. It will add the using and the handling of body force by stepping. The force should canciled each other(or well used/redircted) and not damage the body. So it is a good idea to train with a same level partner.

If the internal part was complete, the arm should be very soft when relex and very hard when pressured. Not like it is dead hard and not able to relex, that will be bad for chi and blood circlation and cause problem when one gets old. This is unique part in 8 step mantis compare to other mantis since 8 step has the concepts of the Hsing-I and Ba-Gua in it.

hope that will help you:)

[SaMantis]

N/Mantis starts with stances/forms, not true. My first day with Pong Lai, I left with a bloody-lip, and severe pain in shins and calf muscle.

ouch! but yu shan, you had prior KF training. Did PL go hard on you right away because you already had a foundation? Do newbies go through the same pain on day 1?

(not that stance training isn't painful! But then I'm a big wuss about pain.) ;)

Sam

[NPMantis]

Thank you!

[fiercest tiger]

yes im australian, who is your kung fu brother and where does he train?

n/mantis from adam shu?

[yu shan]

NPMantis
Nothing wrong with learning `bout other styles, you have not heard of Choy Lee Fut(southern) Gong fu? It`s really good stuff.
SaM
Thank you for the word on CLF Gong fu, it`s really good stuff. As for PL he went hard on me from the get-go, cause I was a Shrfu with WL. Newbies are not started out too hard, but the 2nd night is a differant story.
Fiercest Tiger
My Gong fu brother`s name is Jonathen from Melbourne, no worries mate.
Paul Lin
Xie Xie, what other parts of the body do you condition? Thank you!