help

[CanadianBadAss]

At my school one of the first things we learn is to never roll around some ones arms when doing chi sao(if your hand is on the bottem you roll it around there hand so it can be at the top), because as you do this you it allows the other persons hand to slip by and hit you.
Any way I was doing some sparring, and the guy kept doing this, exept when he rolled around my hand, his hand would come out and slap my in the face(he had gangly arms and would just sorta roll around every thing i did stop what he throgh at me). Every time he did this though my hand would go straight forword and punch him in the face. So I kept getting slapped and he kept getting punched.

How would you guys deal with that situation?

[Dave Farmer]

Hi CBA.

A little confused as to the positioning involved, but here goes:

1. If you are underneath you haven't necessarily lost control as long as you have the bridge and hold the line.

2. Use Tok sau to lift the elbow and uproot the stance.

3. Keep your wu sau in position. Sounds like you are letting it drop, so you can't pak da the striking hand.

4. Try to use sensitivity more to maintain control and guide the attacking arm.

Hope I am visualising what you are asking.

Good luck.

Dave F

[whippinghand]

Bong punch...?

[S.Teebas]

Hello CanadianBadAss,

It sounds to me like you have the right idea, (in regards to taking the shortest route to your parntner - ie target) But it is just as important to have a good defence as it is it have a strong offence(attack) .

In this situation your partner is taking a much less direct route (buy running around your arm) So you have a better position stragetically. Simply mirror the angle of attack in his arm as you punch (bong punch - as WhippingHand said) and you will be safe from his attack while he is getting hit.

[Kiwiexpat]

Hey CBA,
Sounds like you're running into a common problem, you get a nice line & attack & then your opponent pulls out & hits you with a sloppy shot thats got never going to have any real 'juice' on it as they can't stand the idea that they might have 'lost' an encounter. I like S.Teebas's idea of improving your coverage, another option is to step in with your strike but do it gently i.e. place palm on opponents jaw & step through, it should let them realise that you've got the ability to do some serious damage while they're just '***** slapping' you. I train with a couple of sihings who do this beautifully & it really brings consideration body mechanics, angles of attack, etc, into play.
One danger is that you misinterpret a '***** slap' for something that could hurt you & you start underestimating your opponet. Writing as someone who's been slapped & not hurt but who's also dropped a guy biger & heavier than me with a '***** slap' (long b4 my WC days) there is a difference !

Have fun.

Cheers

[Kiwiexpat]

hhhmmmm.....word edited is b* i* t* c* h - aka a female dog, didn't realise this term was so offensive & won't use it again...:D

[Girl Power]

Hi Badass


How about punching him in the face a second time?

Part of our training involves acceptance of a little punishment. Knowing what to worry about comes with training.

However, if we try to block everything we end up chasing the hands and miss opportunities to hurt the other fellow. So,assuming his strike is skightly rounded and delivering a glancing blow, if you were to move forward you could dissolve some of his energy and land your own strike. There is nothing to stop you landing another and another except the other fellows skill.

In chi sau many peple land ****ty blows (even me) you must think could i have done damage with that? could he have hurt me with that. Slaps sting, but don't always hurt too much.

With gangly armed people they can control the distance and if their positioning is better than your they can pick you off from a distance. I guess you should not therefore just touch their arms but launch an attack or something.

We also practice a drill whereby in poon sau we will rotate the arms as you mentioned concentrating on the relaxed forearms and solid elbow positions. This can help you defensive structure but it inot the be all and end all of everything.


GP

[Nichiren]

I like DF suggestion. Keep your WuSau in place and counter him with e.g. pakda or QuanSao etc. I wouldn't recommend eating a slap every time just to land a punch. What if he changes the slap to a Bil Jee?

Cheers...

[S.Teebas]

...Keep your WuSau in place...

I disagree with this. Movement is power. Keeping stationary is a disadvantage.

[CanadianBadAss]

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...Keep your WuSau in place...
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I close the gap with both hands, each arm meets the other persons arms.
And my third arm isn't long enough for a WuSau... ;)

[Girl Power]

Nichiren

:eek: Oh my God!! Not Bil Gee. I'm quivering in my kung fu shoes.

Get real.

[Dave Farmer]

Keeping Wu Sau In Place implies to allow it to hold position and 'float' NOT remain static and rigid.

This enables you to both maintain control of your center and reply to opponents actions.

Closing the gap with both hands is ok IF you are offered a good bridge, not simply chasing the opponents hands.

Also while I agree that movement is power, Movement without need is also both 'Un-economical' and presents an opportunity for giving a line or angle for counter attack.

Regards

Dave F

[Nichiren]

I would like to think that WuSau helps you maintain control of the center. It is not a static position.

Girl Power: I feel sorry for you... :rolleyes:

[rubthebuddha]

hold on their tiger. just because biu tze or fak saus are taught later doesn't make them any more dangerous. a simple chain punch can be just as effective:

impaling the windpipe with a finger

or

smashing the the windpipe with a knife hand

or

crushing the whole dàmn windpipe with a punch

which is more effective?

[Nichiren]

Rubthebudda: I totally agree with you. It was just an example of a technique that is unpleasant, one of many.

[saulauchung]

The concept of changing gates, which in this case from the inside gate to the outside gate, is necessary based on the kuen kuit of 'loi lau hui sung'. Abandoning this option means you've sacrificed at least 50% of your Wing Chun effectiveness. The end result would be simply 'lut sau chit chung', which we are seeing so much in present-day Wing Chun.

We hear so many people say that we be 'like water... pour into a jar becomes a jar... blah, blah, blah...' Changing gates is exactly what this is.

I see this as more of a problem than preventing from being slapped.

:cool:

[Frank Exchange]

If you have good Lut Sao Te Chung, you should be hitting him first. If you are hitting simultaneously, you need more Lut Sao De Jung, you really need to pry from the elbow and hips. The opponent should be afraid to let go and go round, as he will be hit immediately.

As someone else mentioned, dont just tap him, all hits should have the body behind him. If he is slapping you, whilst you are stepping forward and driving his chin or chest a few metres back, he will soon get the idea who will come off worse.

To be honest, he is kidding himself in training a move which results in a you getting off a simultaneous counter. Even if he hits first, your hit will do more damage. And does he really think a slap is going to work in a real fight?

If you can't hit him first, no matter how good your Lut Sao Te Chung, then his arms are too long, so you need to angle as you go in, turning into his strike, maybe turning your punch to tan, then, when you have the distance, turning it back to a punch.

I appreciate what SauLauChung says, you dont want to over-rely on Lut Sao De Chung to the point where you are blindly pushing forward, and thinking that solves everything. Thats why the pry comes from the elbows and stance rather than brute force in the arms and shoulders. But there is also a danger in forgetting that the direct, and simple ways are often the best. Why move, pak, bong or anything else, when a straight punch will do the job?

Next time he does it, take him off his feet, and continue to do so until he gets the message that it is a dangerous thing to do.

Good luck!

[rubthebuddha]

indeed. and also should be respected for what it can do. most people really don't want their trachea being tickled from the inside.