Question about Yip Man...

[Jeff Liboiron]

did Yip Man ever teach the non chinese?

[Dave Farmer]

As far as any documentation and also having asked Ip Chun Sigung at a seminar, no.

He said that this was due to the previous inherent mistrust of 'gwailo' by the Chinese population, caused by the poor treatment during the colonisation of Hong Kong and during the boxer revolutions.

Yip Man held Wing Chun as a 'jewel of China' and not a treasure to share with a colonial dictatorship, or any foriegn national.

While in todays society this may sound like a racist attitude, the political climate and imperialism of Britain at the time has hardly endeared us to many nations.

(although he came to me in a vision and taught me ALL the SECRET true Wing Chun ) while I meditated in a cave for 10 years ;) ;) :D ;) ;)

Regards

Dave F

[kungfu cowboy]

He taught me the backspin and the windmill!!

[yuanfen]

Not completely true. He did not IMO teach any non Chinese
privately himself... but Wong Shon Leung taught open classes for YM and Rolf Clausenitzer( half japanese and half German) was
there and later wrote with greco Wong what is probably the first book in English on Wing Chun. Rolf recently retired from teaching himself in Australia.

[Kuen]

Read up on the Opium Wars, the Rape of Manchuria,the Boxer Rebellion then ask yourself if you would've taught foreigners. I wouldn't have. Of course that was an attitude for the times as was mentioned above.

[yuanfen]

Yes- Yip Man was conservative on Chinese identity and issues-
and regarded wc as a rare Chinese treasure-
but there is the Clausenitzer case....though that was in the context
more directly of WSL. Clausenitzer met Yip man and there was no problem or anatgonism expressed. BTW Rolf was present in a boxing match of Bruce Lee.May have been in his corner.

[sanchezero]

I've heard that Yip Man gave Bruce the boot b/c he found out 'bout his mixed blood.

Of course, this could just be vicious gossip. :D

[Majic Sam]

Yip Man and Bruce's father were friends,so you would think that he also met Bruce's mother at least once and would have noticed that she was not a full blood Chinese.

[yuanfen]

Nonsense. Bruce Lee was in Wong Shong Leung's class- not directly taught by Yip man.... although he knew Yip man and later
when he went back from the US to HK for a visit,
had his pic taken with YM.

[Dave Farmer]

Interesting about Rolf Clausenitzer.
I was aware he trained with WSL but not that this was when Yip Man was still alive.

Thanks Yuanfen for correcting my History books :-)

Regards

Dave F.

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

For those interested in Rolf's account of things....

http://www.wingchun.com/ROLF.htm

[Jeff Liboiron]

thanks for the replies guys. I was just wondering because this dude ran into said his sifu was trained by Yip Man for 10 years. But his sifu isn't chinese. i met his sifu, and he's a *******

[Dave Farmer]

Unfortunately, There are quite a few of them around these days in our system.

We owe it to ourselves and the ancestors to end the stereotyping, bigotry and falsification, and give the following generations something to be proud of.

Regards

Dave F.

[Botha]

I read that Yip Man got upset by Bruce Lee because he was teaching non Chinese in the US. That's why Yip Man wouldn't teach Bruce Lee the wooden dummy form. Even after Bruce offered Yip Man a house.

[yuanfen]

Good to read but not to automatically take everything you read or hear at face value.

[reneritchie]

I believe Tsui Sheung-Tin sifu also received permission to teach non-Chinese while Yip Man sifu was still alive (I think his American student, a Mr. Anderson, was even at Yip Man sifu's funeral).

Empty Cup- That sounds strange. It seems many students who did get Dummy or other "special" training from Yip Man sifu did it by giving him extravegant gifts (Yip Bo-Ching gave him money, Duncan Leung a refrigerator, etc.)

Joy- Are you meaning that Wong Shun-Leung was Lee's sifu and Yip Man his sigung? Otherwise, sihing sound like they often led the class, be it Tsui or Wong, etc. but the sifu was still Yip Man, no?

Rgds,

RR

[yuanfen]

With the principals now gone dates and places can be fuzzy. I was less into titles and more into who actually
in a class taught Lee the most.
I believe it was WSL. But WSL helped YM but then went on to teach on his own as well... even when YM taught a regular class and then had his important private instruction. BL was not in the
latter group neither were several people who claim YM as their sifu. So in BL's case most of the hands on instruction came from WSL. When in the US WSL responded to a related question about BL
by saying something like- yes BL wasa clever fellow and did well.
Interestingly Victor Kan once claimed here in Phoenix that YM
in a beginners class asked Kan to show BL the first 3 motions of SLT. "Sifu jumping" for status jumping and prestige is not just a contemporary phenomenon- occurred amidst peers in HK days as well. Then there is the ...I really taught BL. Boring to those who are not part of Lord Bruce worship.
Many old timers know things that that they dont yap about.
Not secrecy- just reserve and avoiding embarrassing folks.
in a class. So people still yak about how they directly learned from YM. As you know I directly learned from LJ and have kept his gu lao jow ina special bottle and therfore ignore all lower claims<g>. Some genies apparently are never let out- keeps convenient mysteries and small talk going. Regards, Joy

[Botha]

Those were the words of the son of Yip Man himself.

[reneritchie]

Joy - Good points. In large classes, though, or with some teaching methods, the sifu seldom did much 'hands on', but would have a general sort of group, led by seniors, and then pull aside some few, whether they be wealthy, talented, or whatever, for more personal attention. I don't think it was HK so much as just the way certain people did things back then. I believe Tsui sifu taught William Cheung the first few movements on his first day, and it might have been the same for many of the students. Heck, I help beginners in my teacher's class (though he prefers to do the teaching of the actual material himself still ;). And was that Leung Jan's healing Jow, or his special drinking Jow? I thought I saw you with a jug of "White Lightning Lizard Jow!" LOL!

Botha - Genetics are no determing factor in reliablity. People hear things, have opinions, tell their own versions or remember certain versions, or have reasons for having different versions. Even within family, its always better to get multiple sources, cross check them, and even then, have some large grains of salt handy.

Rgds,

RR

[yuanfen]

And was that Leung Jan's healing Jow, or his special drinking Jow? I thought I saw you with a jug of "White Lightning Lizard Jow!" LOL!
---------------------------------------------------------
One is for the external and the other internal- one needs to heal both ways. Balance!

[whippinghand]

I guess you haven't been doing enough "tum yun"?

[zuxingpogi]

As far have read and know (I can't remember from what books I have this information from, maybe my life with wing chun or unsettled matters, so all of this is just what I've read, I have a hell of a lot of books), Bruce Lee was originally taught by Yip Man, but when discovered to be quarter German, was pressured by other senior students to get Bruce out because of his rapid advancement in the wing chun system they where jealous of him. So Bruce was no longer taught by Yip Man, but instead was assisted by William Cheung and WSL, all being apparent buddies at the time.
But who knows, everyone has their own re-accounts of "exactly what happened", history gets so clouded when everyone says something different happened.
Peace
-Bernard

[zuxingpogi]

"Bruce was very competitive and most of the other students in the Wing Chun Clan were getting a bit agitated with his progress. Bruce was willing to use new methods to apply to his training. He was the first one to use dumbbells to train his fast punching. This upset alot of people. When it was found that Bruce was not pure blooded Chinese and that he was showing his Wing Chun to the half-caste twin brothers, they applied alot of pressure on Yip Man to expel him" "Because of the" (Boxer) "Rebellion the general rule was that kung fu should only be taught to pure chinese. Yip Man was in a very delicate position at the time. He was having some financial problems with the school and these people were helping out. Yip Man did not want to offend any of them and ultimatly decided that Bruce should learn from me. It was also prompted by the Chi Sao cha cha incident" -My Life with Wing Chun second edition by Grandmaster William Cheung

[benny]

yeh now that sounds like the usual type of bullsh#t we used to hear from him. but i thought he had given the crap up by now. but then we cant blame him he probably said this years ago and its getting rehashed by one of his students. For this to have been true bruce would have to be good. now he was a good actor but the only reason he was in trouble for teaching is he was not allowed to teach. he didnt have permisson because he didnt know enough. he fooled most americans back then because all they had seen was karate and judo. he did some tricks(worst 1inch puch turned into a 1 foot push i have ever seen). there were many people better then him he just got famous first.

[zuxingpogi]

Its intereresting that you discount so many things that will and can never be known. Bull**** or not, it is always better to view things from all angles and never discredit anything when the history is foggy. I am not one to be much into martial politics, all I posted was what I had read and quoted from a book, never did I post my view and nor would I for it is pointless on a forum of learning. The text reffered to the fact that Bruce was a good student, and students where adgitated to his fast progress, not to his actual level in kung fu. As you have said in another post, you have had to work double as hard to catch up to another student who is a natural athlete, perhaps Bruce was one such person as well.
Peace
-Bernard

[Alpha Dog]

"Strive to be as good as someone else and you will only be as good as him."

[zuxingpogi]

I agree Alpha Dog, one should always stive to become the best person that they can become. Not to become what somebody else has already acomplished.
Peace
-Bernard

[stonecrusher69]

I heard that Bruce Lee did not learn the 3rd form.That he asked wong shum leoung and william chung to teach him but they refused.

[rubthebuddha]

seems to be correct. he got the snt, chum kiu and bits of the dummy, but that's it as far as forms.