Chi?

[EARTH DRAGON]

After reading many threads on these boards I have realized that not a lot of people know, understand or have ever felt chi. I am just curious to see how many of you have reached a level of

1.cultivating, being aware of it, (not just knowing it exsists)
2. using it for practice ( iron palm, healing propensities)
3.shooting it into other people so that they can physically feel it.

I dont want to start a "what is chi" thread for those go way off the subject but I am very curoius to know what levels others have obtained in their trainnng.

My qigong teacher once told me of her shrfu that used to project chi with such force that he could push someone into their seat when standing without touching them physically.

I also have a book written by the famous (shu ming) of bejing that used to have a group of people face the same direction and put their hands on each others shoulders and then would shoot chi into the first person and make it travel through the group and knock the last person back which forced them to let go of the persons shoulders in front of them. I can assure you it was not trick and no acters used for he used to do this in bejing park many times for demonstrations and also was part of a special on A&E about chinese qigong masters.....

[Daniel Madar]

4. Reached a level where you can see the flow of people's qi when they practice.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes

[uncle]

Hi ED ,Daniel ,This is a good question for the board,one that gets walked around alot but not completely answered. I'll try although I'm not entirely sure of my own answers.:o #1a definite yes #2 no not yet #3 yes,so far only on the offencive. #4 can't even see it from where i'm at,so far. I'm a good transmitter but a terrible receiver. ED , not to highjack your thread ,but I was curious how much of MR.Madar's success he would attribute to his current sifu? peace" Bob of the Great White North"

[Fu-Pow]

I don't believe in Chi.

[Water Dragon]

1.cultivating, being aware of it, (not just knowing it exsists)

Yes

2. using it for practice ( iron palm, healing propensities)

I do Iron Palm, but no, I don't think so.

3.shooting it into other people so that they can physically feel it.

I hit hard, but no, I don't think so

[Daniel Madar]

Bob, send me email. Zharoff@hotmail.com.

And I'd like to say, I have an easier time with #4 than #3. I think it's a matter of practice. ED works a lot with projection.

[taijiquan_student]

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Haven't tried, but I'm 99.9% sure I can't.

[red_fists]

1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) Do a certain degree when applying massages and checking of latent injuries.
But that is not shooting, but simply increased sensitivity due to training.

Most non-internal MA I spar with can feel a differene between their punches and mine. Is it Chi, you decide.

Knocking people over without touching them = NO.
Controlling People without touching them = NO.

4.) Yes, I think so.

[Ky-Fi]

Hmmmm....to my understanding, every strike and every technique involve the use of qi.

Maybe I'm a bit of a skeptic, but I would have to say that if I knew the next day I was going to have some master try to project qi at me from a distance without touching me, or if I was going to be at the end of the line when he sent his qi through 10 people---well, I wouldn't lose much sleep.

If I knew that the next day I would have to take a full power, qi-dominant soft jing strike from my teacher, then I'd be browsing through a wheelchair catalog, or checking through the details on my life insurance policy :).

[prana]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No, but I am learning to heal, but not using my own Chi.
4. No, definitely not

Great questions BTW

[bamboo_ leaf]

1.Yes
2.Yes but not in healing or iron palm more like listening to force and unbalancing

3.Not shooting but more like extending awareness so they can feel something

i find that number 2 and 3 are realtive to the people I'm working with and my energy level for that time as to weather they can feel mine or i can unbalance useing this alone (with out force), in most cases i can feel theirs :)

[guohuen]

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes

[EARTH DRAGON]

Awsome posts guys, I am glad that you all have responded with such enthusiasim. I have been in contact with so many non beleivers I find it hard to find people that say oh I know what you talking about.....I usually find people that say your crazy or it is impossible to shoot chi, and these ignorant comments are from fellow martial artists which makes me shake my head even harded. I was hosting a seminar on medical qigong to some medical students and when I was explaining the medical benefeits of qigong enduced cardioplasmatic energy waves they where looking at me like I was talking about UFO's. So my teacher and I did a demonstration where she projects chi and I shove a wire through my calf muscle without bleeding or pain. I convinced most of them but a few thought it was a trick so I invited one young man to try it. After he inserted the wire he could not beleive what was happeing and could not explian why he never felt pain or blood loss, which in their eyes is medically impossible.

So when I do demonsrtrate my skill it falls on deaf ears and closed eyes as I described in my "people just dont understand thread"

Just wondering how long in your training did you realize that chi was actually prominate and you were able to feel it for the first time.....?

[Nexus]

Chi isn't real, and neither are you.

:-D

[EARTH DRAGON]

Ha Ha I like it...... but you know do we really need another worm hole supervisor? I heard the last one still on a month leave for his 2 week vacation.........

[Daniel Madar]

1st day. I got a good teacher.

Peace out all.

[EARTH DRAGON]

your post confused me.... I dont understand why you said

day I was going to have some master try to project qi at me from a distance without touching me, or if I was going to be at the end of the line when he sent his qi through 10 people---well, I wouldn't lose much sleep.

If I knew that the next day I would have to take a full power, qi-dominant soft jing strike from my teacher, then I'd be browsing through a wheelchair catalog, or checking through the details on my life insurance policy .

It seems as that you are afraid of you teacher more than a world famous taichi qigong master with whom you have not met and probably have never heard of. Who is your teacher? And why would you post that I am totally confused...... thanks

[guohuen]

Hahaha!!! Master Nexus explains Maya! :D
A couple of years ago I was watching a student of (er,hrumph,ah,ah) Dr. Klein do form, (he was sloppy and wooden at the same time) and he was able to generate a little bit of chi in his hands that I could see. It was too bad he had no idea what to do with it. He asked to see some Tiger Step Gong so I demonstrated a little and he started screaming "he's throwing chi balls at me! Hey everybody, he's throwing chi balls at me!" I just hit the ground laughing because I realized he had never seen anything like this before. ( and I was missing him a good ten feet to his left) Then I sent him a big soft wave of Jung Jing and made him laugh. :D

[Ky-Fi]

Earth Dragon:

1. I'm sorry, I never said you were confused. All of us have different understandings of these arts, and my understanding seems to be different than yours. I'm just talking from my limited exposure and experience in these arts.

2. I study under Yang Jwing Ming.

3. I've been taught that having very stringent critical standards is crucially important to developing a high skill and knowledge level in the arts. It's been emphasized to me repeatedly to test out everything personally on my own time so that I really comprehend what's being taught.

I've been around people with some incredible skills, and I've never seen them do demonstrations of knocking somebody around with their qi without touching them. From what I've seen on this forum and others, when people are questioned in detail about projecting qi from a distance, they usually end up admitting that it doesn't often work against a resisting opponent, and that it's of virtually no martial value.

From what I've read of most CMA history, the famous masters of old were known for their combat skill relative to PHYSICAL contact. Projecting qi from a distance, if possible, would seem to me to be a much higher level skill. So these people out there today who claim this skill have reached a much higher level than Yang Lu Chan, Wong Fei Hung, Sun Lu Tang, etc.? I suppose it's possible, but I'm dubious to say the least.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I didnt mean to say that you said I was confused........... I actually was, but you have cleared that up thanks.

As far taking what peope say on these boards to heart, most masters that I know dont really care or know about the inernet so it is hard to judge simply from what is typed hereon the board in the modern world.

As for projecting chi to unwilling people that really has nothing to do with it at all!you donot have to believe or understand inorder to be healed. Actuall if they are willing it would fall under hypnotisim. If you are speaking of moving objects from projection that would fall under teleconesis. What I am talking about is emmitting cultivated chi into another person to rebalance their chi flow, which has been done for over 4,000 either with needles or with chi perfromed by a qigong master. While I no way near consier calling myself a qigong master. I have been studying with world famous Yen Chu Feng in the art of jin gon tzu li gong and have cured many patients of mine with various qigong techniques, and I can project or shoot my chi right through you with or without you beliveing in it at all, doesnt matter. I can make you shake or move simply by the effect of emmitting my chi. I have seen people roll around on the floor from my shrfu treaments.

Ask your teacher about shu ming. He is one of the most famous taichi qigong masters in china. Again most real masters that have obtained high levels in the arts are not known to the general public and surely not to the western world. So you cannot base assumtion on what is available via the media or the internet.

[Daniel Madar]

okay, this is my last post. Seriously. Too bad ED had to start a post so near and dear to me. :(

Projection of chi and projection of chi for combat effectiveness are two separate issues. Everyone is "projecting" chi to a degree, just as we project heat, and electro-magnetic energy in measurable amounts. ((Whether chi is either of those, I'll leave alone)) Projection in the way that ED is simply directed channelling of that energy in a way that provokes physical sensations. Not necessarily killing people or even healing people, though he has stated opinions on the matter.

[Sum Guye]

for anyone interested, there was recently a thorough test done on a master who claimed he could project Chi. The results of which are too long for me to post here, but the whole deal is
laid out on the following site:

http://www.shenwu.com/discus/index.html
(go to 'Concepts' and select the 'Fa Jing and kong jing' thread)

Personally, I know there are mysterious forces all around, but it is facinating to see how folks who claim something mysterious react when it gets tested.

Cheers,

[Ky-Fi]

I feel that Mr. Cartmell (shenwu.com) knows what he's talking about.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Sumguye, I just read that entire artical and their are many things that stated that are nothing at all what I am talking about.
First is I am not speaking or fajing or kongjing. That is classified in a totally different catagory. fa jing is explosive power chia gu ping chi gong is medical not martial.
the second thing that makes me laugh at that article is the very mention of james randi give me a break. We all know about this wacko.

Third I am not speaking about richard moonie (name?) I am speaking about much more higher levels than him.
Fourth i have seen over 2000 treaments, some people have little reaction some have major. My teacher did a special on nakmosai no which is like a 20/20 or a dateline show that airs in japan and they interviewed many famous masters to shed lite on chinese healing as opposed to japanese alternative medicine. So we have live video from the national brodcast of that segment. Plus we have taped many treaments that people have had great reactions to for use in helping the new patients and the western world understand this so called phenomenon. So I cant make you belive and I dont know what to say to youother than just open your mind and you will start to understand. our medicine is 250 years old, china's is 4,000 so I think that we have lot of catching up to do to even understand a fraction of what they have done for centuires........

[uncle]

WTF And so we have hit on just 1 more reason why high level masters don't teach westerners. We have no ability to take anything on faith until the physical feelings kick in on there own. We have to know why, how, right now !! Then if you read Yi Wu's post there are a lot of martial artists who are not taught, some for quite a long time, how to feel or cultivate chi,until they encounter a teacher who knows what they need. I'm sorry Yi Wu was on Maoshan's chi thread. I got ahead of myself. ED you must be a very good teacher because your patience borders on the heroic for loss of a better word. Brother you cant teach a pig to sing. luck Bob

[Nexus]

Thinking in and of itself can be a hinderance to a healers abilities. More often then not, healing is just about letting oneself go and channeling the energy, being a conduit for the universe. I mean, as we in a sense are part of the universe, we can attune ourselves to those attitudes, but in doing so we have to let go of our "sense of self" which is what the term "higher level skilled healer" often refers to. That is, someone who is more capable of letting go of the idea that it is them that is the great healer and just healing for the purpose of healing which is what its all about anyways.

Although westerners tend to take a different approach, but that approach I will not mention here, but I think those of you who have or do take a similar approach can relate.

- Nexus

[Ky-Fi]

Originally posted by EARTH DRAGON

As for projecting chi to unwilling people that really has nothing to do with it at all!.......

.........and I can project or shoot my chi right through you with or without you beliveing in it at all, doesnt matter. I can make you shake or move simply by the effect of emmitting my chi. I have seen people roll around on the floor from my shrfu treaments.



I guess I'm just not following your logic. If one has the ability to make people shake and move and roll around on the floor simply by projecting qi into them, and this is COMPLETELY unreliant on the projectee's belief or willingness to take part in the treatment, then wouldn't this have tremendous combat applications?

Surely, if one can truly harness this power, then any attack would be either stopped or substantially hindered from a distance. Just speaking from my own perspective, if I was engaged in a fight and suddenly began shaking uncontrollably or rolling around on the floor against my will, this would seriously limit my offensive options.