How heavy is YOUR heavy bag?

[Royal Dragon]

Ok guys question here, but first my explanation.

About 3 years ago, I noticed that our horisontal band saw leaves alot of metal shavings (like saw dust, only metal) when we cut steel for the product we make. Now, I happen to have 6 military surplus bags made out of canvas. If you filled all 6 with sand, you have just enogh sand to fill one of Everlast's "Big" Leather heavy bags. I also noticed much of our equipment does this.

So, I started saving all the metal and drill shavings thrown offf by our equipment (drills, saws, pipe threaders etc.)

Well now, I have 4 bags of VERY heavy metal shavings with the consistancy of sawdust, but the wieght of metal and i'm on my way to filling the last two.

I weighed one of the bags today on the UPS scale, and redlined ithe scale at 92 pounds. NOW, this is as high as our scale goes, and I'm SURE these bags are at least 100 pounds each, very likely more (possibly 25 pounds or more over 100)

So, if we multiply 100 pounds (minimum) times 6 canvas bags we get a 600 pound heavy bag!!!!

I was wondering, how many of you have a bag THAT heavy, and if you did what benifit would it bring?

Comments anyone?

RD

[Water Dragon]

Bro,
Do you realize what a 600 lb heavy bag will do to your wrsits?

[JWTAYLOR]

Wait a minute, something's not right here. If you have 6 100lb bags then you have 6 100lb bags. If you had another giant bag and filled it with the shavings from the 6 100lb bags, then you would have 1 600lb bag.

Getting this to hang would be a b!tch from hell. And I think you might as well punch a wall.

I have a 190lb. horse hide bag from Everlast. I love it.

JWT

[Badger]

I have an 1000 lb. 4ft x 10ft tree trunk from Everglades Sports.











Badger

[CanadianBadAss]

"I have an 1000 lb. 4ft "

I have sevenstars mom.

[nospam]

Our heavy bag is so heavy its got its own area code!

nospam.
:cool:

[Royal Dragon]

Wait a minute, something's not right here. If you have 6 100lb bags then you have 6 100lb bags.

If you had another giant bag and filled it with the shavings from the 6 100lb bags, then you would have 1 600lb bag.


Reply]
Actually, the 100 pound bags are rather small, it's rthe fact that they are filled with metal shavngs that makes them so heavy.

The Punching bag i want to put the shavings into is the big leather Everlast bag (you know, the one we all dream of?)

I didn't think about wrists, glad you mentioed it. I supose I could use a 600 pound bag (If I can even HANG it!!) to build side kicks that can kill an grizzly bear!!

Comments anyone?

RD

[Budokan]

I have the side of a brick house. And a tree. Those are my punching bags at home.

[SevenStar]

I would hang Canadian BadAss's mom, but I don't know of anything less than a crane that could hold her. And even that would begin to give after a few days.

[MonkeySlap Too]

My heavy bag is so heavy it has its own gravity well.

[Royal Dragon]

Well, that beats ME out!!!:eek:

[straight blast]

My heavy bag is 38 Kilos. (Just weighed it :) ). Much too heavy even with wrist wraps on. Will be fixing problem shortly.

[Kristoffer]

I want to buy a bag to hang in my room but the only one I can afford is 20 kg.. But I guess that's enough.

[scotty1]

I went from sawdust to paper shavings. Sawdust was just too dense, and hurt my hand. I wuold rather work out with something like paper shavings, which are dense enough but give a little, and be able to work out for longer. After all, your targets are not hard as steel.

Budokan, don't you worry about the effect hitting a brick wall will have on your hands/wrists/elbows/shoulders/back after a few years?

[JWTAYLOR]

RD, cool. I'd make sure you a some strong leather, but even so I think it would break before long. However, but I think you could leave it sitting down and propped up against a wall or something and develop an UNFRIGGINHOLY round house kick with it.

JWT

[Royal Dragon]

My thought was more the "Side Kick" as that seems to be one I just naturally get in on just about everyone I have ever fought with little to no effort.

As for hanging it, I figured I'd buy 3 empty Everlast Leather bags and hang them inside one another to help hold all that wieght up.

The other option would be to only put 3 bag of metal shavings in it, and the rest sand to end up with a more reasonable wieght, like 350 pounds.

I have already hung and hit the little bags that wieght in around 100+, and they give with the same consistancey a sand. They're just D A M M heavy for such a small size!!!

As for hitting with hands, they give enogh to do it, but the big bag will probually not swing at all.

I know Tom Saviano (Trained Kieth Hackney) has one in his club here in Addison IL. his DOES NOT MOVE unless you kick it!! His is too hard to hit though, so I think he has more in there than just iron filings. Only his senior students and instructors hit THAt bag.

I'm guessing my bag will be like a tree trunk wraped in Wrestling Mat when done (another option that has merit).

The way I figure it, by spring of 2003 I should have all the little bags filled, and be ready to buy the everlast bags that the metal shavings go into, Only one more year to go He HEeeee!!!

Royal Dragon

RD

[Shaolin]

I'm sorry I don't understand the perpose of a 600 lbs heavy bag. When in tarnation are you ever going to punch something 600 lbs and with the density of metal? The only benifit I see is feeding the ego. If your looking for an iron fist type work out get a small metal plate about the size of your palm and punch it 1,000 tims every day for 4years (I don't reomend actually trying this unless guided by a qualified master who will also teach the energy side iron fist needed).

[wu_de36]

I have a century Wavemaster heavy bag. With the water base, it is supposed to be 270 pounds, but it doesn't feel like it. It also tends to move a lot. I'm stuck with it for now, until my housing options give me more flexibility to hang stuff (my neighbors would be none to pleased)

Errors in your technique will be greatly amplified by a heavier bag. one good roll of the wrist and your bag will start collecting dust for a bit.

[Shaolindynasty]

Where in the He!! are you going to hang a 600 pound bag? That will knock your house down!

Let me tell you a story. I had a canvas bag that weighed 100 pounds when I bought it. At first this was enough weight. Over time(a few months) this got way to light to practise side kicks on so I decided to empty it of the cotton filling and I put dry corn(farm animal feed) in it with sand bags going down the center. When it was finished the bag weighed close to 300 pounds and it was perfect the weight and density was great. Soon I was knocking this thing all around and the support beams I hung it from were shacking pretty bad every time I hit it. The stuff you buy to hang the bag broke a few times and my dad had to swip some industrial thing from work. One day I do a hard side kick.....WAP.......the bag jumps up then slams down really hard and rips all around the middle and the corn goes every where. I noe own a 80 lb bag and a 100lb Muay thai century bag that goes all the way down to the floor. I practice punches and hand techniques on the 80lb bag and I practice kicks and sweeps on the 100lb bag. The only place I practice my side kick is on a cement wall or on a post I cemented 5 feet down and 2 feet circumfrince in the ground. I could have gotten stronger on the bag but luckily it broke before I knocked that beam out.

The Post I have on the other hand has lasted me 5 years without budging. I also tacked a wall bag of gravel on it and can practice hand techniues to. It's really cheap to make, I used a 12 ft railroad tie I found in the alley. The only thing is you need to have a yard and in the winter it's a challenge to go out in the snow and punch and kick it.

[Royal Dragon]

If your looking for an iron fist type work out get a small metal plate about the size of your palm and punch it 1,000 tims every day for 4years (I don't reomend

Reply]
Not the point. a 600 pound bag is going to be VERY hard to move, and the practice of hitting it will eventually build the strength nessasary to move it. Now, if I can get strong enough to move THAT bag pretty good, imagine how frikkin hard I'll be able to hit!!!

Hardness of the hand is irrelevant, especially since the bag has similar give to regular sand, it should absorb impact the same as a regular bag, it's just god awfull heavy!!!

Royal Dragon

[Highlander]

Royal Dragon ...... I know I'm going to get flamed for this because a lot of people subscribe to the idea that moving a heavy bag is an indication of power, but it isn't. There is a point where a punch or kick ceases to be a strike and becomes a push. This is the point where the bag swings away from you.

When you strike a bag notice the amount of indentation your strike puts into the bag before it moves. This is the amount of power that is actually driven into your opponent. Also, walk up to a bag and give it a push and see how little power is needed to swing a bag. The most powerful striker I have seen can make a bag fold with their strike and even though the bag will jump, it does not swing. Increasing the weight of a bag will increase the indentation and decrease the swing thus creating the illusion of a powerful strike, but the strike itself has not changes.

To develop real power get a bag that represents the amount of resistance you would expect the average opponent to have and practice driving your power into it without pushing at the end.

O.K. I have my fire proof suit on, flame away. :cool:

[Water Dragon]

Highlander is correct

[fa_jing]

Just get an airsheild, man. Bruce Lee style. If you have someone to train with, then they can move around a little and you can work your setup to attack and footwork, plus you can see if your kick is powerful enough to uproot someone for real.
-FJ

[Royal Dragon]

I got several of those, I'm short on training partners.

Besides, I don't see how a heavyer bag WON'T increse your hitting power, especially if are careful to NOT push the strike. I understand the penatration thing, but really heavy metal shavings are going to require (and build) more power to displace, whether it be penatrating, or moving.

If I cab about fold a 600 pound bag in half, AND launch it half way to the ciling, don't you think that's some pretty D a m m hard hitting? (Assuming it's even humanly possible to move THAT much wieght, and assuming I can actually HANG a bag that heavy).

remember, I'm getting the metal shavings for free, all I do is put them in the canvas bags I brought to work instead of throwing them in the scrap/recycle barrel. So to me I'm loosing nothing, and gaining a potentialy major training tool.

RD

[ShaolinTiger00]

Sand, Recylced tire chips, metal fillings etc.... All of these things are very very bad and only an uneducated student would even attempt to use such filler for a heavy bag!

go to a sporting good store and find a 100 lb heavy bag. open it up and you'll find it is made in 3 layers with shredded rag cloth being the basic component. Cram enough of this into the bag and it creates a very firm, sufficently heavy and pratical training tool. The bag needs to give a little.

Do you want to hit an immovable object? Go beat on budokan's tree. You'll be able to do it every 6 months if you go full contact for 30 minutes.
Do you want hit with resistance 3-4 times every week. fill a heavy bag properly. (even then you may have problems - my right hand still aches from "boxer's break" on occasion)

btw: Where do you hear such nonsense? One thing I hate about the martial arts, no "qualifications" any moron can teach others with little objection...

I have 3 bags

A 6' bananna bag

A 100lb heavy bag

A 50 lb. uppercut/knee bag

[Royal Dragon]

Ok, I'm ovbiously un educated, why would sand be bad now?

It's heavy, and gives good resistance, as well as having enough give to prevent crushing your knuckels, and you can kick it with little fear of injury. Heck i have been known to side kick a concrete walls with little if any effect on me, so what would be the problem with a sand bag that is going to move and give?

Also, what kind of dammage would a bag filled with Iron filings cause if you only kicked it? (Not to mention punched.) It's not that much harder than sand, and it does have a cushining give to it, it just offeres more resistance because of the wieght.

RD

[Shaolindynasty]

For most strikes I agree with Shaolintiger00. A standard heavy bag is enough in terms of density and weight, 100lbs is enough. I would tell you the story of my friend(you met him, he was built had the dog and went to the army you taught him san zhan) filling his bag with sand thinking the density and heavyness would be good. The side kick is a special kick. It can deliver allot of power. The down side is that it is easy to turn it into a push kick if you train it exclusivly or even allot on bags. Train the side kick on solid objects(assumeing you use the heel, some korean styles use the side of the foot). A good way to test the side kick is just to stomp your foot and let it bounce off the floor, that's the way the side kick should hit a person.


I also agree with the statment about the 'folding" of the bag but you should also realize that as a result of the "folding" the bag should move a little. Some people use that example as an excuse for their weak strikes. As long as you are not swinging the bag you are fine.

"So to me I'm loosing nothing, and gaining a potentialy major training tool. "

Except your house when you knock it down, you will be hitting over half a ton remember that, can your house or garage or whatever handle that strain?

[Royal Dragon]

It depends on where I'm living then. Saviano has a custom made frame for his bag, and seems to do well with it. His fighteres are the hardest hitting guys I'v seen in the area.

SD,
I know what you mean by the floor bounce thing. You can really launch a guy like that.

I have actually found standing in the twisted horse stance with the lower knee an inch or less off the ground helps the side kick too as you are getting strength and flexibility or "Loosenes" from that exercise.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Sand would probably be even worse than metal fillings:

Sand is a granule. it packs together virtually airtight and void of any air pockets, becoming incredibly dense. (Your analogy of kicking a wall was pretty accurate, if you hard pack an entire heavy bag with sand, you might as well be kicking a masonry column. You kicking the wall- you are the one giving!, when you kick a person/sheild/heavy bag it gives, not you.

Sand gives if it has somewhere to go! If you fill the bag completely with sand there will be no give because there is nowhere to go, and beating on it will only make it pack harder, you'll never "wear down" sand, its silica structure is too rigid. It will just settle and any tiny air pockets it did have will rise toward the top making it even harder.

not too mention that a normal 100 lb heavy bag filled with sand would weigh much much more.

Why would you want to use anything heavier than a "hard fill" heavy bag? The greatest strongest boxers/strikers of modern time use these bags. If there was a better way, don't you think they would be using them?

[Royal Dragon]

"The greatest strongest boxers/strikers of modern time use these bags. If there was a better way, don't you think they would be using them?"

Hmmm, could it be that there is no real comercial source for metal saw dust? I mean, as far as I know there is NO market for it. If there was, we'd be sellling it. Since there is no appreciatable market, NOONE sells the stuff, and the Boxers have no source in which to purchase it. If they HAVE thought of the idea, how would they go about implementing it?

I'm only doing it because I work in an enviroment that naturally produces the stuff as a byproduct of cutting steel to make parts for the product we manufactuer. If I had'nt had the Idea to save it, It would go in the scrap steel recycle bin like always, and the amount nessasry to fill the bag would NEVER be acumulated. I mean it's taken me almost 3 years to fll 4 bags, and I need 6 to have enogh to fill the everlast bag I want.

I already have the 80 pound bag, and it works quite well. I figure if I fill it with sand, then it's going to have a weight in between 80 pounds and the extreame 600 pounds. I would then work up to it slowly over time like progressive weight training.

I may never gett all 600 pounds though, I may mix sand and fillings together.
Also, the fillings have a consistancy of saw dust, and it compacts as tight as sand due to the fact that it's mostly a metal dust from the saw. The little bags give like a sand filled puncing bag of the same size, only heavier.

RD

[premier]

Yo heavybag is so big the speed balls are orbiting it!!!!!

Yo heavybag is so big, when I was punching it and finished my work out, I side stepped, side stepped again and I still was in front of it!!!!

[Royal Dragon]

You missed the point, it's not the SIZE, it's how HEAVY it is.

The bag is the SAME size as the Leather evrlast heavy bag.

It's going to be so heavy because its being filled with metal sawdust from work.
I was practicing low kicks on one of the little bags today. It's just sitting on the ground, not even hung up, but it's so heavy that it's still solid enough to actually use!!!

RD

[scotty1]

But your idea sounds like a waste of time and elbows, hands, knees and ankles to me. Whats the point?

The arguments you have offered in terms of increasing the power in your strike have been refuted by members of the board.

Somebody earlier said that 600 pounds was half a ton. Is that true? What is that in Kg? (Just so I can get some perspective)

Surely the point of a bag is to emulate a human target. This would be emulating Robocop. Yeah, being able to strike Robocop would give you a pretty mean strike on a human, but do you want to be able to hold a pen when you're older?

You also say that you are not interested in Iron Hand training on the bag. Unless you are wearing extremly good shock absorbing mitts, that is exactly what you are going to get. But without the guidance and progression that should accompany that type of training.

Hey look, this is only my opinion, and everyone knows I don't know ****. :)

[Royal Dragon]

You also say that you are not interested in Iron Hand training on the bag. Unless you are wearing extremly good shock absorbing mitts, that is exactly what you are going to get. But without the guidance and progression that should accompany that type of training.


Reply]
I already have an Iron Hand system. It uses a Mung Bean bag and progresses to Iron Shot. Thgat works on the fact that small round hard things penatrate deper into the hand when struck and stimulating growth throught that type of an impact and the assistance of an herbal formula. It's basically to develop the strenght to withstand tremendious hitting force. The 600 pound bag (in my guess) would by what actually develops that hitting force. I think Iron hand would be essential to the program, otherwise you'll hit someone and bvreak your own hand as well as thier face.

Besides, the metal saw dust is fine, and has very little penatrating power compared to hitting Mung beans, so I don't think you would get anything more than superficial iron fist development anyway. It gives like hitting a sand filled bag, not a iron plate.

In the end, t's the over all wieght that is the thing here. Some have mentioned that 600 pounds is TOO heavy, and will cause you to "Push" when you hit. They may be right, I don't know as I'm still a good year of collecting [metal dust] away from actually being able to put this thing together.

Once I actuallly have enough Metal saw dust to fill the bag, I then have the problem of figuring out how to hang it.

Also, I thought 2500 ppounds was 1 ton, so my bag would be a 1/4 ton bag (Like th sounds of THAT!!! :)

Who was the Boxer that hit cattle carcasses on his farm? Was that Forman? I think it was. My having a 600 pound heavy bag would STILL be lighter than a 1000 pound slab of cattle on a hook that that guy used to hit. He ovbioullsy gained great benifit from hitting exceptionally heavy things.

RD

[Tigerstyle]

A ton is 2,000 pounds (about 909 Kg)

A metric ton is 1000 Kg (about 2204 lbs.)

So 600 lbs is just over a quarter ton, not really half.

[Tigerstyle]

Royal Dragon's heavybag is so heavy it leaves footprints in concrete.

[Shaolindynasty]

My bad. I was wrong about the ton thing. sheesh. who cares 600lbs is still d@mn heavy

[Royal Dragon]

I droped one of the little 100 pound bags on the concrete floor next to my work bench wile moving it to my car, and it actually shook the bench!!!

I think I'm going to rip a beam of of my house!! I was actually thinking of constructing a stand alone bag holder for it, something I KNOW will hold it. I may base it on the same design as an "Engine hoist". We deffinatly have the steel stock at work to complete the project, not to mention the welders and other nessasary tools, I would just have to "Sweet talk" my boss into giving me enough material to do the job.


RD