How do YOU train to reduce your reaction time?

[Convergence]

I'm looking for suggestions on how to cut down my initial reaction time.

I'm interested in your "tried and true" training routines that help minimize the time between the opponent's first movement and your interception/redirection/attack.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Repulsive Monkey]

In coporating meditation is the most reliant way to reduce the amount of confusion time between causality and actuality situations.

[Black Jack]

Meditation has nothing to do with real time reaction speed????

To reduce your reaction time to the response of a attack their are a few things to keep in mind, at least IMHO.

One, less is more, keep your techniques simple, keep your blows simple, have a core number of non-specific strikes that you drill the crap out of, be aggressive, remeber Hicks Law, that the more alternative options you have to choose from, the higher the response time to the situation.

From a hands on perspective, both free sparring and situational drill will help you with this.

Here is a reaction time drill to try, stand with your back to a wall with your partner standing in front of you, have them at will fire off whatever strikes, blows and kicks that they wish to when they wish to, do not leave the space on the wall, no spinning, no leaping out of the way.

This will train your reaction time to unrehearsed shots, after a bit of this then you should start striking back, countering with your own barrage of blows in accordance with the unrehearsed strikes being given at you.

The goal being to do IT UNREHEARSED!

Hope this helps

[Mantis9]

There are a number of things that I do to help my reaction time. The first is simple--repitition. The more you preform said technique, the less and less time it takes for your body to excute it. You drill it until it becomes "second-nature." Second, drills like punching whenever there is a camera angle change during your favourit Kung Fu flick will help reaction time by training your mind to recognize a change as quickly after it takes place as you can reat. Third, visualization. If you do this meditiating, that will work. People who think about possible situation they may encounter are more likely to respond well than those that are caught by suprise. Fourth, sparring. If you get hit enough, say on your left cheek, you will realize that you have trouble reacting with your response. Its important to spar with or around people that will give you constructive criticism, so you can find these holes. And final, develop the ability to read your opponents. The more you know about their quarks, combos, and give-aways the better reaction becomes possible. Its like being able to see a nanosecond into the future. You can do this by watching others, giving them constructive criticisms, based on your observations of them sparring.

That's what I've got. If anyone has something more or different I would like to know about it. Thanks for your time.

[Chris McKinley]

BTW, kudos Black Jack...I thought I was the only wanker to go around referencing Hick's Law when teaching fighting skills. LOL

[Shooter]

Very good advice from Black Jack. Here's an alternate perspective which kind of expands on Mantis9's final three recommendations:

Taking Hick's Law one step further, forget techniques and trust your training in terms of their execution. Develop flow-state and continuity in your movement instead. If you want to reduce reaction time, study and understand rhythm. If you understand the opponent's rhythm, you can undermine to his sense of timing.

Distancing is pivotal to space/time referencing in this regard. As an example, the subtle difference in distance between kicking and punching ranges is an elastic factor in developing good distancing. As you spar, take note of the rhythmic change of your partner as he prepares his attack whatever that may be. People instinctively know from experience how far they have to be from something in order to hit it, grab it, or pick it up. Each rhythmic shift is indicative of their own sense of distancing and how that spacial reference accomodates a given tactic. Each tactic has a pre-emptive signature that you'll be able to recognize as you work through various set-ups and attacks during 3/4 speed free-sparring. You'll notice that the rhythm must compliment the distance in order for the bridging tactic to be effective. Practice moving away from his single attacks at first (jab, cut-kick, or other probing tactic) while he's enroute. That just means not being there to block or counter (moving just out of range).

Once you can read the rhythm in his advance, practice countering the single attack with your own strikes, clinch, etc. In the same training session, experiment with that concept in regard to combinations, but with combos, don't evade. Instead, counter with jams, bridging, shot, or whatever tactics the rules of the game allow for.

Continue experimenting with rhythm as you add layers of complexity and diversity to the drills. You'll develop good conditioned response to the intuitive prompters that are necessary mechanisms of the opponent's dynamic in their entering and attacking phase. Once you can read his rhythm to the point where he abandons his attempts to get close while he's in the process of advancing, you'll know you've locked onto his rhythm.

Increase the speed at this point and take your lumps until your sense of rhythm adjusts. Vary your own rhythm and footwork to compliment that of your opponent. Once in a while, step way out of range and exhale as you drop your hands, go flat-footed, and reset yourself from a point of stillness. As you inhale again, rhythm and hands up. You can also experiment with your own attacks on the inhale. You'll find that this tactic invariably lends you attacking entry if the oppoenent doesn't adjust his rhythm in kind. In other words, if he doesn't adjust his cadence, he's relinquished the pace and lost the initiative while you go from a defensive attitude, to taking the intiative. Yin to yang, yang to yin.

[Black Jack]

Good stuff Shooter, its nice to see a Tai Chi guy talk about there system as a martial system for a change.

On a humerous note with a serious twist, reaction speed is increased much more when you are the bloke giving the first pre-emptive shot:D

[Kristoffer]

great thread...

[Shooter]

On a humerous note with a serious twist, reaction speed is increased much more when you are the bloke giving the first pre-emptive shot


Black Jack, good one! There's a passage in the Tai Chi classics; "If the opponent doesn't move, I don't move. If he moves a little, I move first"

On a tactical level, the ideas of reading range, rhythm, timing and position give foundation to developing good remote sensitivity (reading the opponent's intention), and lend some credence to that passage beyond just theory.

People like their space, and the phone-booth (CQC) drill you outlined is a good way to stay out of the comfort zone.

[C. Martin]

Some really good info here!

My 2 cents:

If you aren't training the moves under pressure, you're dancing. Pressure test your responses, and try to limit the variance of your responses; I.E. the S.P.E.A.R. Someone here already mentioned pre-incident exhibitors, what your attacker/opponent will do before the attack. The more times you execute, with contact, with the threat of pain as well as the ability to inflict pain, to the point of fatigue........the greater your chances of actually applying the technique in an altercation. If you really want more on this, check out anything from Tony Blauer. He's on top of this game and I've experienced great success with his materials, for myself and my students.

Best of luck.

[Taone]

Originally posted by Black Jack
Meditation has nothing to do with real time reaction speed????

Black jack - the question marks confused me - are you saying that mediation is not relevant in the issue of reaction time??

IMHO, mediation will calm the mind, keep it clearer and sharper. If there is not so much clutter, a response might be facilitated in a shorter time.

[Black Jack]

They should of been !!!!! and no I don't believe that mediation will do anything in a real deal, fighting situation to reduce response time, what it will do IMHO is waste your valuable training time in learning to lower your response time.

Mediation will not give you a calm mind when a yard ape is trying to take your head off with a tire iron at the local Amoco, the best you can back yourself up with is good and honest physical training, to teach your body to handle the adrenal dump as best it can, to understand what it does, to practice fear management and enviromental awareness skills under pressure.

That all comes from physical training.

For inner development then I am for all for mediation and other methods but for self survival I think it borders on fantasy, thats not to say that I think mental development/awarness has no game in survival, it is a HUGE part of the equation, just not sitting on your passive butt and mediating, it has to be combined with the physical act of doing.

The old "act or be acted apoun" line

[Taone]

:) Good point.

But as a supplement, not cutting into the hard yards. I don't mean take away any of the hard work and replace it with meditation.

In the sense that a regular meditator might have a higher, more perceptive awareness, perhaps one might be in a calmer, better position to deal with the situation by gathering information earlier?? Your thoughts??

& also visualisiation. Do you think that running through those types of situations in your head can help at all??

[Shooter]

Meditation has its merits...depending on the level and type of meditation. It's a matter of how one sorts out their thoughts and reflections. Introspection is the gateway to one's insights on their self-management, and reveals the source of their fears, apprehensions, prejudices, etc. It may also have an emptying effect of the mind's preconceived responses to specific stimuli. Approaching the training with an emptied mind is a very effective method of utilizing intuitive retention, and one that foregoes the cognitive process of assimilating "information" through patterns, mnemonics, acronyms, etc.

Someone else posted their ad-vice which supported my statements about pre-emptive signatures of movement being the live points of reference to one's tactical responses while applying pressure in their tactical training. This is nothing new at all, and has been the process of understanding all natural movement for centuries. The spasmotic recoiling from touching a hot iron is the same response one has to a perceived action which threatens to harm. Converting that action proactively may, or may not be a cognitive decision, but the same principles apply whether the action be responsive, or impulsive. The operative word is IMPULSIVE - Again, foregoing the cognitive process of DECIDING to take action.

"Understanding others is knowledge
Understanding oneself is enlightenment"
-Tao Te Ching

"The quality of movement depends on timing"
-Tao Te Ching

As a preparatory exercise to the physical training, meditation offers a point of stillness from which action, and enactment are conducted with clarity and sound "presence of mind" - No-mind.

My 2 cents...

[Black Jack]

My only discordance with mediation is that I am not sure if the benefits in a survival situation would be worth the time as most people are conditioned by there past enviromental experiances.

Untell that rare and unfortunate time happens, a lot of the stuff people practice in the safe confines of there kwoon is thrown out the window, in terms psychological training. An example would be a man who has been attacked by a knife weilding thug before in his lifetime has assmilated the real psychological experiance into his mindset after the encounter, therefore he has a better grasp on dealing with the next similar situation, mediation nor a lot of other passive mental training would have this effect by itself, does that mean they would not be helpfull, of course not, I am sure there are some good benefits to being able to be centered, but a lot of that centering is going to go down the toliet when the first serious encounter hits and your fight or flight instinct kicks in and then hopefully, just hopefully your physical training takes over.

I do not want to come across as a person who wants to vilify mediation as a enhancer in fighting ability, as it has been showcased as a good tool in combative sporting events, but it only "seems" to me that people like the first poster on the subject put to much merit and practical application into something which can not be tested under such extreme pressure.

I like mediation, I think it has benefits, but if forced to pick and choose different training regiments over others, I would have to include that as a supplemental tool.

[Sensei Kunz]

Train during sparring on interception until it becomes neuromuscular in reaction. This is when a hit, hits all by itself!

[curtis]

Hello gentleman
I enjoy reading everybody's ideas, although I have some doubt if those ideas will work for me?
I have been working on cutting down my reaction time for many years, and I have learned a few exercisers that may help. (At least they did for me.)
Reaction time/leg time (the time it takes for you to see something happen, until the time it takes for you to react.) Basically you have three things happening at one time, the eyes perceive, the brain reasons, and body reacts. In order to cut down your leg time you must disconnect the reasoning element of the leg time. (Remove the brain!) Or in better words, making your techniques a neural response. (In this way the brain does not need to think, which takes time.)
"OK" (I'm sure no one here, wants to read an entire book on topic, so a cut to the chase.)
Exercisers.
Radio shack has a few toys that are really good for training reaction time. They sell a light (it looks like a traffic light) you plug it in and the lights blink on and off randomly. (You ask, how do you use it?) By removing one, or two lights will give you a random off time, (in which it makes you wait.)
When the light comes on, you can perform any technique you choose. (Example a block and strike, a kick, or a closing the gap technique.)
Sense you are using light, as a trigger to respond to, you can't get much faster that. The goal should be to fire any technique you choose loosely, relaxed and recoil, ready for the next triggering. (Which is a random timing.) As you get better you can an ad at another light to increase the speed of the random blinking.
I have many more ideas. Although the stated earlier," no one wants to read a book." So I will stop with this idea.
I hope it helps?
Sincerely yours C.A.G.

[Sensei Kunz]

To tell you the truth, I like that idea, it's innovative! However, once you have mastered or improved on your reaction timing, proceed to use its effectiveness during sparring by having your opponent do do some drills with you.

[curtis]

Good evening
Guohuen
everyone must find their own path, mine is a more modern approach. Although I'm always willing to here more on other peoples ideas. (I would like to hear more!)

Sinsei Kunz
my response to you, is similar. The end results are the same. Although I do believe sparring in the early stages of learning can be a huge mistake. Someone wishing to learn how to cut down their reaction time, must start at the beginning. If there is any fear or the emotional context involved to early in their training, I believe will be caused more harm than good.
And truthfully I dislike sparring. I prefer a concept called lin sil di dar (multiple attack theories). In this concept there are many principles that need to be adhered to. The area I'm looking at this time states, There is a primary and a secondary, the purpose for lin sil di dar is to learn. The primary is just that (the one who was learning) the secondary can be anyone or anything he chooses ,as long as he/she remembers he is a learning/ teaching aid.
In sparring it is me against you. Egos get involved. In lin sil di dar the secondary is not truly trying to better his primary, (he will challenge observed and correct if necessary.). But there is No ego involvement, so everyone learns.
Perhaps it's just semantics, but I find it even more challenging facing a boxer, a judo player, a street fighter, a TKD player, or even a drunken monkey fighter. That seems to be far more challenging they just one-man doing the same thing over and over trying to better his opponent.
Anyhow that's how I see it. I am looking forward the hearing your side.
Have a good evening!
Sincerely C.A.G.

[C. Martin]

Shooter and Curtis.....It's great to hear from other enlightened persons on this Forum! Thank you!

Meditation : While endless hours of meditation are both impractical and potentially redundant, "mental blueprinting" is an essential training tool. If you haven't even thought of what action you'll take in a given scenario, much less physically practiced it, you'll lock down, or take too long to respond. If there isn't a blueprint, there's a void. Voids are bad, brain ****s to use a cliche'. Military Operators and Law Enforcement use are encouraged to use mental blueprinting all the time. I can not practice really shooting someone until they are no longer a threat, but I can visualize it and mentally practice. I'm not talking about shooting paper targerts, I'm talking about putting rounds into another human being until he hits the pavement. This is not simulated emotionally in range exercises (unless simunitions are used.) Now I have some sort of plan if the poo hits the proverbial fan. We refer to it as the "What if?" game. Try it if you aren't already doing it.

While practicing against lights may allow you to react very quickly to random lights, it's much like doing forms to improve fighting skills. True progression will only occur when you actually respond to attacks and threats. Another cliche' if you'll indulge me, "Train like you fight, fight like you train."

Check this out, it's a great acronymn for reaction time:
P.E.D.A.
Perceive,
Evaluate,
Decide,
Act
Bob Magnuson S.T.O.P.S. Police Tactical Manual.

All of this occurs in a micro second. Without rehersal, under pressure, expect no real reductions in reaction time. The comments about having a "good" bad guy are right on the money. Take the egos out and let the bad guys be the coach.

One last thing.......another Blauer Quote, "Don't practice missing."

Best of luck in your training.

[Shooter]

I posted this on another thread. I hope it doesn't take the discussion too far off topic...just wanted to show how the idea of sparring can be structured for different intents and purposes than ego-gratification:

Sparring is a relationship which evolves naturally as the people involved develop a more sophisticated dynamic. The evolution of peoples' sparring has an intangible element that's based on intent more than method. Tactical intent begins to supercede technical application as the dynamic becomes more intimate. Push-hands, chi-sau, rolling, randori, armoured, street-clothed, are just variations of defining the relationship. Some are cooperative and some not.

If I spar with a long-time training partner, the relationship is different than if I spar with someone who I've never met before....and the intent will be very different regardless of the format. Ergo, the format reflects the familiarity and mutual understanding of what is being accomplished in the exercise. eg...The format is a street-fight scenario where we agree to "duel" rather than a format reflecting a random violent attack..if I throw a punch at my partner's thigh, the unfamiliar guy will be like "WTF???" but with long-time partner, it might be understood that I just pulled a kife and attempted a cut. If I make contact, the unfamiliar guy will have a pause that allows me to control his flow-state as well as the direction that the sparring takes, but with the familiar guy, I can expect him to take the intiative with a sense of urgency toward controlling the hand I just hit him with,...or he can run like the wind away from the danger. The difference is that one sparring session has a cooperative quality which is absent in the other.

Sparring reflects the intelligence of the participants and the IDEAS they've embraced mutually as a means to practicing particular skill-sets contained within the format. Skill-sets and etiquette dictate the format, but the corner-stone is the relationship.

[Sensei Kunz]

I am a basic open minded person, and any suggests or thoughts of any kind from anyone is a blessing. Eventhough you dislike sparring due to egos, it is apparent that you need to find some sparring partners who would rather learn than prove something to someone due to their insecurities. You must find good sparring partners that you can experiment and trust to develop fighting skills. there is nothing like full contact sparring if you give it a chance. Yes, you should start at the beginning and have some knowledge of the arts. However, I do believe that sparring should start within a short period of time. My students start light sparring after two months of training. I want them to experience contact as soon as possible. Especially the kids between the ages of 5 to 12 yrs of age. they will immediately realize that the size of an opponent means nothing and their self-confidence level has already begun to develop along with their fear of contact. this is my belief and I have been teaching for 30 yrs. It is amazing to see students showing fear just walking into a dojo for the first time and then within nine months become animals in control during full contact sparring.

I didn/t mean to ramble on again, however, I am a stron believer in contact - contat-and some more contact. LOL!

the neuromuscular deveopment at this time is well on its way, "when a hit, hits all by iteself."

[curtis]

Gentleman I am truly starting to enjoy this conversation.
C Martin
I to use visualization as a training tool. As well as direct meditation (other than indirect meditation, like most people who practice meditation use.) and both tools work well for me.
Siensi Kunz
your point is well taken, I to agree about putting technique into application. (Perhaps we're doing the same thing although using different names?) There are many concepts that sound alike but are very different (example, blocking vs. clearing the perimeter) in truth they do the same thing, only differently. ;)
Cutting down leg time can also be seen as pre-seaving the motion before it actually starts. If you wait for the hand or foot to start in motion you have very little time to react, although if you see the persons set up for motion you can move before (or when) the opponent moves (after is to late!).
Distance control is also important, if the opponent is to close to you , it will be very difficult to see the movement in order to stop it. Although if you're too far away, then you can see the motion happen, but cannot react to it because you're too far away.
OK Siensi Kunz! I can hear you say (((SPAIRING!!!)))
YES BUT lets play with more toys first! (Lets go back to radio shack, or your local hardware store.) Let's make another light toy.

You'll need four light switches, (I like spring loaded switches, they go on when I push the button and go off when I release them.) And four low voltage light bulbs, some wire, and some pegboard (in truth anything will work as long as they hold the lights.) the purpose for this toy is to simulate different responses. You put the lights in four corners (they can simulate kicks, or punches or both)
you as the instructor can turn on and off the lights, and the students must respond with the proper technique when the light comes on. COME ON ITS a fun game! If you line up the students many people can use this exercise at the same time. Have the students strike when the light comes on, not after. (Trying to beat the speed of light, will definitely shorten your leg time :) )
I have to go.
Have a good day. C.A.G.

[Sensei Kunz]

Yes, we are probably talking about the same things. Too many people jump to conclusions when they do not understand YOUR terminology.

I would not use the "toys" during sparring though. It might be a good idea to train at home and then see how your reaction time improves during sparring training.

[Crow1981]

Hey!

Interesting thread. I think the ROSS system might have something about reducing reaction time. My only experiences with ROSS resources are limited to the IOUF and recently GTB(1st volume) videos so far. And they're not even mine, but my friend's who I borrowed them from because I couldn't afford them myself. And to be honest, I've only seen them once because of limited time. But they're GREAT.

Perhaps some forum members more experienced with ROSS than me, can respond to this thread. I'm sure it'll be educational for us.

Me and three of my friends have decided to split the costs 4 ways to purchase SHOCK-Ability and Fisticuffs, hopefully having enough by the end of this month . I think these might have methods dealing with reducing reaction time. I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed with these though.

[curtis]

crow1981
I am sorry, I know nothiing about this ROSS System. please tell me more,WHAT IT IS ? Who dose it? and whare did it come from?


Reaction time is critical. But how do you train it? I like to train more than just reaction time, my goal is to try to preceive any motion before the starts. (Something like radar.) There are precursors to every motion, if I can see these precursors start I can predict what will come. Most of the time, I can stop the persons strike before the starts. (Sort of like a stop hit. But somewhat different too) the goal should be to strike through a perimeter, (clearing it.) And not worrying about ,the act of striking, in this way the strike itself becomes a block. (Your strike may or may not actually make contact with the opponents arms, that isn't important what is important is that you shut down your opponent's ability to striking you.)

As I understand it is like the animal spirit, to make things natural is, so the brain doesn't have a chance to mess things up.
Anything you do that is natural , like throwing ball there will be no thought involved.
Here it is a neat trick, to play on someone that is clearly beating you in any sport. Complement them there greatness. And Then asked them how do they do it? Do you breathe in or out when you move? By questioning the breathing element (which something they do without thinking.) makes them think about how they do it. (And as long as they are thinking about it, it is no longer natural for them to do)
have a good day. C.A.G. by

[Crow1981]

curtis, the ROSS website is www.amerross.com