What do you think?

[Ryu]

I posted this in response to another thread, and I was wondering about it actually.
What do you think?

You guys wanna know something interesting?
All the years I've been in martial arts I've gone through many ranking systems, but for some reason I would
always get a rank just under black and purposely move on.
I spent time in karate when I was young and recieved a brown belt, but didn't stay to go for black.
In fact, even in judo I'm still a brown belt, and have again "moved on" without going for the black belt. And
it's not really too hard for me to get I don't think... I wonder if it's some subconscious thing. Where I am
subconsciously afraid of getting a black belt because I'm afraid of success or will be forced to face my own
doubts about myself or something...
I was thinking about it. I guess I'll continue the belt ranking in Japan for judo... but I'm just in no real rush to
get it.
I want to wait and train more by myself now before I get back into it. Am I nuts?

Ryu

[Badger]

What kind of doubts about yourself if you get your blackbelt?

I wouldn't worry about belts though, Just enjoy your training.
When you are ready you will know it.



Badger

[qeySuS]

I for one wouldnt want a black belt in my current system because i respect the master in USA a lot and my teachers as well, and i know this is not a sport i'll be dedicating my life too (TKD) so i dont feel like i'd be a "deserving" black belt.

Maybe since you move on so often you dont feel your deserving because you know your not 100% dedicated to the art. I feel that if i get a black belt in something it should be because it's an art i'm really dedicating myself to and i'm in it for the long run.

[Water Dragon]

I think the real question is, why haven't you chosen a style to stick to and develop fully? Now that doesn't mean you can't explore other arts or become good at them. But I feel you should always have that one art that you never leave. That will make the difference between being very good and achieving mastery.

[TigerClaw]

Ryu,
Do you view the attainment of a black belt as an "end" - meaning that it is a representation that you have mastered the system? I have always seen a black belt as process to develop the system into something that is "yours"

[red5angel]

It sounds like the advice about ignoring belts is a good one, really. You have enough martial experience that you can judge for yourself how well you are doing, how far along your learning is, etc.... I view belts like security blankets, or military medals. They look nice on your uniform and they get attention, but when the s h i t hits the fan, its not the belt or the medal that makes you a fighter or a heroe.

[Budokan]

Attaining a BB is not an endpoint, it's a beginning. It only means you're finally ready to truly begin learning the style and all that it has to offer, not that you're any kind of "master" or don't deserve it.

[qeySuS]

dunno if your asking me or not Water. But i hvae tried out most arts available to me and so far i havent found any one that felt like i wanted to advance endlessly in it, the current one i liked the best, i'm trying to be as good as i can get. But i've yet to find an art i really wanna practice for good.

I'm still searching though :) Hopefully expanding my search to USA.

[shaolinboxer]

you are not alone ryu. many people drop out at brown belt... an essay written by our sensei on mental training makes a point of it.

i wonder why this is? i know our black belt test is very difficult, consisting of 273 empty hand and weapons techniques, plus randori. is it that discouraging? or is is the fact that after getting ikkyu (brown belt), you are require to study for 1.5 years prior to testing for shodan (blackbelt).

well, i'll find out soon enough.

black belts are very personal things. if you want one, go get it. if not, don't.

[Sharky]

hi ryu.

i am not sure how your system works mate, but surely at "black belt" level there are things taught that are not taught to brown belts? don't you thurst for that extra information?

or maybe your system doesn't work like that?

[No_Know]

Your lack of confidence with your self imposed obligation of upholding the Art~ keeps you from going to the Black belt. If you know it's a start, then you would be obliged to doing that throughout your life. You are uncertain that what you've done is your idea of complete. From these, you are hesitant to start something you might not want to finish--continue.

You're not crazy, merely lost in What to do and what matters to you ans trusting that to be Right~.

[Merryprankster]

I think that whether or not the black belt is a "beginning," rather than an end point depends on style. By the time you get to black in BJJ, you are far from a "beginner."

Now, that does NOT mean you aren't a student forever... keep training, keep learning!!! :)

[Chang Style Novice]

I think you suffer from a lack of committment stemming from low-self esteem. In other words, you have this idea that you aren't ready to be a master (whatever that means in your mind, you seem to have associated black belt ranking with an end to self-improvement) so you stop short of attaining the black belt for fear that it would end your program of self-improvement. You fear that attaining your goals will result in a malaise that will reduce your competency, instead of a renewed commitment to bettering yourself.

I've read your posts for quite a while now, Ryu, and I suspect that the struggle to improve your performance in any endeavor you take on is your defining personality trait. You quit when you fear that you are approaching the apex of your potential achievement, because it is important to you that there always be room to grow.

For what it's worth, I don't think the world works like that. It may be possible to score 100% on a test, or what have you, but as humans we have inherent limitations to all of our abilities and skills. You may achieve your own potential in some area or another, but there will always be some other field of endeavor to pursue, or some nuance of your own great skill that can stand bolstering.

As a way of 'testing' my hypothesis - did you get a little depressed after graduation? Does a 4.0 report card make you feel like maybe you didn't deserve such good grades? Do you find that your standards are just too high to attain, even when other people are impressed by your accomplishments?

Answering 'yes' to these questions and others like them would seem to lend credence to my guess.

[King T]

Ah the old saying "Wear your belt in your heart and not on your waist.............." " for every mountain there is another more granduer." Don't feel to bad. I think the ultimate insult to martial arts is the entire color ranking itself. It places a material value upon your hard training. One's hard work and skill can not have a material value, it is something that can not be bought at a store or by a rich snob. It is the ultimate guage of efforts and dedication, motivation and inspirationand most importantly humility. Something in which, since nobody, can truly master anything and even though they achieve close to it,who can truly say they are equal in skills to their masters? It further degrades the hard worker, as any one can pick up a belt and wear it, but not anyone can truly deserve it. peace..

[Mr. Nemo]

Chang Style Novice is full of s.hit. Ryu, you're afraid of getting a black belt because your mother didn't breast-feed you.

[King T]

Mr nemo; so your mother still breast feeds you then heh, or is it that you graduated to another level with her every time you go up in rank. Lol...:rolleyes:

[Xebsball]

I think the woman at certain point cant produce milk anymore.

But there is no need to worry.

His dad probably still produces a type of "milk", so his nutrition is for sure still top quality :)


HAHA :D

[Ryu]

Thanks everyone for your posts, but I think I'm gonna go with Mr. Nemo's reply.... :D LOL

King T, thanks for the support. Don't be too hard on Nemo though, he's just kidding. :) But thanks for having my back. ;)

I'm going to continue with my judo training obviously. But you know, I think Chang Style Novice might have been on to something.
Did you know I actually tend to distance myself a little bit when I feel a woman is getting more romantically close to me?

There very well may be something there about fearing the "goal" once I reach close to it... hmm
Something I should look at.

Thanks guys. You helped out.

Ryu

[anerlich]

I don't know you, Ryu, so it's hard to say. You certainly don't come across as a person with personality defects.

Where I train, I've seen several people get the equivalent of a BB and leave, never to return. I know they took no more MA thereafter. That was a goal for them, and after that ... they could see nothing, I guess.

My instructor talks about "carrying the weight of your belt". A level which implies instructional ability also carries with it some obligations. If not to teach or run your own school, at least to be an example to other students. That DOES mean you have to carry yourself and act a little differently. Also, you wear that belt, you're expected to be able to back it up with the skill it implies. now and forever.

Like Royce (or Rickson? can't remember which) said, "a belt covers two inches of your a$$. You'd better be able to cover the rest". I guess it also implies some obligation to the instructor and organisation from which you got that belt.

Dunno man, but maybe you do have some fear of commitment.

IMHO though the best thing about MA is belonging. Nearly everybody talks about doing MA to become skillful, badass, etc. etc. All about themselves.

Few talk about the friendships and bonds that come from years spent honing skills as a group, learning from those more knowledgeable and helping those less knowledgeable along the way. What Scott Sonnon calls "tribal strengthening". Being the "highest" grade in the class sure ain't about getting the adulation of your juniors - you're always uke, you're always expected to stand in when the teacher has obligations outside the school. You fluff something, EVERYONE notices. But seeing the look on a student's face when you they finally "get" a technique after your assistance, or their response to just a little of your individual attention, means more to me than being top badass, knowing more techniques than anyone else, having a nice sidekick, or whatever.

That said, I got my BB-equivalent about five years ago, and the nidan equivalent about two. But the next grade I'm really aspiring to is a blue belt in BJJ.

Why not just get one BB? Just see what it's like ...

[Daniel Madar]

Ryu, why do you view black belt as success?

I'm sure you are aware that in Japan, black belt qualifies you as a rank beginner. Sure the perspective is different here, but it does put things in a different light, doesn't it?

[Mr. Nemo]

Remember that a certain belt can have a lot of variety in skill levels. Jeremy Horn was technically a blue belt when he gave Shamrock the fight of his life; Jon-Olav Einimo was (and still is, I think) only a blue belt when he beat Rigan Machado in ADCC (Rigan had an injury, but still, even qualifying for ADCC is an accomplishment in itself)

I also agree with what Water Dragon said - the best fighters are usually the ones with a "base" discipline that they're very good at - for you, that could be judo, I guess.

That said, not everyone has a "base" art - Frank Shamrock, Evan Tanner, and Dave Menne all just call themselves "freestyle fighters"

[Chang Style Novice]

Glad you found my thoughts valuable, Ryu.

Although Mr. Nemo is correct, too, of course. I am full of um... it.

[Ryu]

Your responses give me a lot to think about. Thank you.

The highest level I got I guess was the instructorship from Paul Vunak (the one that I don't know if its good anymore :D LOL )
But seriously, I remember eating lunch with him in a Chinese restaurant and asking him flat out if he really thought I was good enough to have it.
He said he thought I was, the thing I had to come to grips with was whether I thought I was.
It was almost as if I didn't trust his judgment! And even after it just sits on my wall...
I emailed Burton Richardson once about that kind of thing, and he said I was putting an unfair expectation on the "ranking" as if I am supposed to be invincible or something, and it just doesn't work like that. So hmm I may just be too hard on myself too.
If I lost would people be mad at me? Would they say I suck?
etc. Anyone else sometimes feel that kind of thing?
I've won much more than I lost, but occasionally I come up against a grappler much better than myself and eat it LOL, but no ridicule ever comes except in my own mind.

Definitely something to bring out a bit and analyze maybe.

anyway, thanks again everyone.

Ryu

[qeySuS]

I think it was Royce who said it and i beleave the quote was:

"A belt only covers 2 inches of your a$$, the rest you gotta backup yourself". Or something similar to what you said :)

Also Jan-Olav was promoted to purple after ADCC

[King T]

Ryu, I would't take it if it makes you feel anything less. Remember martial art is to fill a certain void, not to create more holes!!!!!!!!!!!!