Go see the guys before you criticize

[Internal Boxer]

Before any other person casts another stone on the ability of another teacher, why not go and see them. It is too easy to be prejudiced.

Take Erle, I do not agree with everything he says but if you went to his seminars and trained with him as I have done, you will realise he has true internal power, it is very scary believe me. I remember when he came over here, on one occasion he performed "slant flying" on a fellow student who happened to be 6ft4 heavy build and a policeman to boot. He held a huge thai boxing pad but the power launched him, the next day his whole arm was brusied, cause the power went straight through the pad and into him, he did not feel too good either. Shame Erle does not demonstrate this much, probably cause he is not comfortable with hurting his students. So if you doubt his skill go and see him and find out for youself. He performed his chi disruption on me and I temporarily became very weak. By the way I am not easily impressed but this guy is good.

So please lets just act like grown, and respect others, is that too much to ask??

[count]

So please lets just act like grown, and respect others, is that too much to ask??
Judging from the number of replies to this thread and the number of replies to the "John Painter" thread, I guess it is too much to ask.

One thing I learned being the only "white" guy at summer school one year is that prejudice is a reflex that can be fixed through education. It comes from ignorance and fear. When you speak from a prejudicial standpoint, you show the world what and how you think. Especially on a public forum like this one. Don't make the assumption that because Erle, Kumar, and Dr. Painter are not Chinese, that they don't have something of value to teach you. Sometimes looking at things from across cultural lines gives you a broader perspective for those smart enough to stick with it.

But I really don't want to preach here. I just wanted to say, I am glad to see the threads resolving themselves and that real men can admit when they have changed there minds and learned something of value.

To the one "cat" from Los Angeles who's name I won't mention and has no way of contacting due to privacy controls. If you are looking in and if you know who you are, E-mail me. I think we should hook up in person at Dr. Painter's workshop next Sunday at The House of Champions. ;)

[kungfu cowboy]

Well, when dudes are making outrageous claims without verifiable proof, doctoring photos, and bending or creating the truth to make a buck or appear to be something they are not (as examples), fire away I say! Somebody has got to police the crap and help the unknowledgeable consumer since there are no goverrning bodies providing quality control.

[count]

Hugh D. Mann
Kung Fu Sherrif

[Brad]

In Dr. Painter's case, I see nothing wrong with discusing, apparently, doctored photos found on his own website. I mean, he allowed them to be there for the public to see. Plus things like history have nothing to do with skill, and should be able to be discused on the internet. No need to meet the guy for that. Although, I generaly try to stay away from that, since about half of what I read on the net seems highly questionable anyway.

[Ehlana]

Oh absolutely I agree, Brad.

Consumer rights have long been neglected and if there weren't people so willing to take time away from training and research, where would the rest of the serious students learn how to select a teacher?

On another note I saw a television advertisement the other day, where a Ford SUV was driving ON THE MOON. Now really I think the consumer needs to be educated here. DO NOT BUY FORD TRUCKS THEY ARE LIARS.

I also saw an advertisement where M&Ms had legs and talked. Still haven't managed to get a single M&M to do so. I have written to the EFFEM foods company about this blatant false advertising but they still have not responded.

I wish they all would just tell the truth. I can't believe anything they say. So BOYCOTT M&Ms BOYCOTT FORD you have been warned. Stay alert, be a smart consumer.

Thanks everyone you are a beacon of truth honesty and beauty in a world of falsehoods. See you at practise (or maybe not since you're all sitting in front of your PC).

Sandy T.

[kungfu cowboy]

Sorry, but those are poor examples. Advertising is known to do these things for entertainment and a bigger draw to the product.The general public, and those without serious mental illness, fully understand what the items advertised can actually do, and know fantasy from reality. Consumerscan check for themselves the science behind it, there are a multitudes who use it, better business bureau, etc. In the MA community, which is much smaller things are different. Generally, there are limited resources with which to verify and make educated informed decisions about authenticity.

[Brad]

I deleted this because I think the post below explains things much better than I do. Plus my post sounded a little mean ;)

[Kevin Wallbridge]

The reduction of internal martial arts to a consumer product is disappointing. I do believe that it is somewhat more meaningful than sport vehicles or candies. While most of what I practice is rather pragmatic, to ingnore that these systems offer profound spiritual teaching is to limit your ability to get the most out of them.

What was the line in Jet Li's Fist-of-Legend/Jingwu-Yingxiong? Something like

"Your uncle isn't considered the best because he is the best at killing, he is considered the best because he has the most refined character."

Or something like that. Even if someone's touching skills are impecable, I think I will reserve my assessment until issues of character become clear.

The long debate (great read by the way, thanks all) on the Texas Bagua teacher was about character, what we may also call Wu De. Questions of lineage are not always important, but spurious claims are bad judgement no matter what a person's skills. From my experience, lineage styles are more complete, and don't require piecemeal additions from here or there, much less a lot of creative adaptation. Not that these things are necessarily bad, but they remain untested over the long term until a generation or two has gone by.

Martial arts got to where they are through creative adaptation and innovation. New innovations were attributed to past masters to lend legitimacy, this is true, but it was also a culture based on the idea of "face." Face is an idea that needs to be left behind, not used as mask for deceit. If you don't know where it came from why not just say so? To justify a falsehood on the basis of actions of people of the Qing Dynasty in China leaves me with an uncomfortable taste in my mouth.

[Brad]

Sandy,

Your teacher put photos on the internet which clearly looked fake. For some reason it's this huge sin in the martial arts world to ask questions about anybody. People talked about it, and he removed the photos. No big deal. Hopefully, Mr. Painter can take something from the experience to help him become an even better martial artist and person. Just because he might have made a mistake, I'm not going to condem him for it.


BTW, nice website :)