Kung Fu San Soo

[wushu chik]

I am just wondering what eveyrone thinks...yeah, I know...I am laughing as well...

Just want peoples opinions and what they know about them.

I will explain it all later in the thread....

~Wen~

[Tigerstyle]

I think it sounds a bit funny too, but all the people I met that study that style were some mean fighters. It's one of those "too deadly to compete" type of styles (eye gouging, clawing/tearing, etc.), but I think many of them do compete :) .

[Yung Apprentice]

What the heck is it exactly? I know there is a school here that has it. Is it a real type of Kung Fu, or is it a hoakey Shaolin-Do type style? If it's so lethal, howcome you or other people don't all go rushing out and join? ( I mean what are the cons of this particular art? )

[Archangel]

Isn't that the style of the KF guy that fought MMA fighter John Marsh. As I recall everything was allowed, including all of those "deadly" techniques.

[gfhegel21]

It's a made up style, more or less. They try to claim some lineage through a fellow named Jimmy Woo (dead now) that they seem to hold in religious reverence. He may have been a good fighter, but there is no way to document his claims.

[MIKSANSOO]

ah!! not again!

i will admit there are many guys that claim they are fighters but have not never fought. but i gotta ask what you guys think? i know what i know? as for that guy that fought marsh he was as competant a fighter as a white belt. many people claim a lot in san soo but they have no experience in fighting. it is a fighting art but many don't fight. there are a few that compete in mma. like king of the cage. you shouldn't make your views until you have seen it! some real practioners that is. you need to find a good school to look at.

[Mr. Nemo]

I think san soo comes from kenpo, not any chinese style. That did about as well against John marsh as any other fighter with no takedown defense or ground training.

[Arioch7]

San Soo is not a style per se', it is a type of fighting. IMHO, it is a very good style of fighting.

People do train exclusively in San Shou but they are training to compete IN San Soo(Or Shou.).

At least San Soo fighters will compete in ALMOST ANYTHING while other styles of this type only compete in thier own method of fighting in thier tournaments.

Laugh all you want, I am not sure you fully understand just what it is that you are laughing at.

[Xebsball]

San Soo and San Shou are two completely different things.

Kung Fu San Soo = Jimmy Woo related

Kung Fu San Shou = the Red Army style and also a competition format

[GinSueDog]

Arioch7,
San Soo and San Shou are two totally different things I believe.

Mr.Nemo,
I have to agree with you there, few people without ground experence would have fared much better.-ED

[neito]

Gerald Okamura does San Soo, he was in a couple of magazines. It looked pretty impressive. He seems to be the big boss of san soo at the moment, he also knows alot of chinese weapons. In the magazine he was using the twin hooks. He also hosts a martial arts festival called dragon fest.

[Arioch7]

OK. Explain the differences to me please.

I know about the fierce border conflicts between the Soviets and the Chinese but I think my understanding of San Shou/San Soo is accurate.

Correct me on my mistake on San Soo/San Shou. To me, it is a matter of Chinese dialect but I am probably wrong.

[GinSueDog]

Arioch7,
San Soo is a martial art that the Woo family claims to have been taught by a Chinese monk and has handed down in there family from generation to generation. I think of SCARS when I think of San Soo as they look very similar, which is mainly because Jerry Peterson is a San Soo blackbelt.

San Shou is a competition format invented and created by the chinese to show case there martial arts.

[Mr. Nemo]

"OK. Explain the differences to me please.

I know about the fierce border conflicts between the Soviets and the Chinese but I think my understanding of San Shou/San Soo is accurate.

Correct me on my mistake on San Soo/San Shou. To me, it is a matter of Chinese dialect but I am probably wrong."

It is not a matter of chinese dialect, they're two completely different things.

[Yung Apprentice]

Ah! So it is similar to Shaolin-DO, in the respect that both have lineages that are often questioned. If San Soo is so lethal, why does no one seem to want to train in it?

[GinSueDog]

Something doesn't need to be popular to work you know. If that were the case many Kung Fu styles would be in trouble.-ED

[Arioch7]

I dig it, Thanks! :D

[Black Jack]

San Soo is not related to Shaolin-Do:rolleyes:

Back when I lived in Orange County, CA I used to mess around with some of the San Soo guys there, they were really nice guys, no ego, no big ticket to sell, open to anything, and to boot a few of them were pretty tough characters.

The one major complaint I have about San Soo as a system is the fact that there is NO continous free-sparring at all, there are modified/advanced two man drills like one step but much more aggressive but no free-range sparring as well as no grounfighting or knife/stick work.

Otherwise they seem like a good bunch of guys, as for there lineage, they seem to be pretty sure of that and it is a big world out there, San Soo has those very old Woo family manuels to back up what they preach.

My final point being if you have not trained with them, then don't make judgements based on nothing, I don't think they are lethal but they are a far-cry above any mall-karate school.

[Waidan]

I studied San Soo in Orange County for a few years. It's (IMO) an aggressive, effective style. I make no claims about it's authenticity as a traditional Chinese style, however. What Black Jack says is true of the training (in regards to a lack of free-sparring), and that was perhaps my biggest complaint during my study.

Nemo, if I ever get off my butt and come up to train with you and Jeff, I'll be happy to show you some San Soo. As much as I try to focus solely on Bagua now, it's not uncommon for many of San Soo's throws and takedowns to make appearances in my workouts. :)

[Brad]

About the whole Jon Marsh vs. San Soo fight, keep in mind that Marsh was bigger, stronger, faster, younger, and more experienced.

[Waidan]

also keep in mind the San Soo guy obviously had no idea what he was doing.:(

[JasBourne]

I trained San Soo for a couple of months, I don't know if that particular club was representative of the style or not. While I wasn't bowled over by the techniques, what did get to me was the mindset - these guys were training their brains to be strike-first no-mercy predators. Like in forget punching, tear out the trachea while you jam your steel-toed boot into their privates and collapse their kidneys with your free hand. Don't just break the kneecap, crush the joint and kick in a rib or three while they're down. It was a pretty intense group. :eek:

[Yung Apprentice]

Why did you stop training in San Soo?

[JasBourne]

Because I found wing chun to be better suited to me. I prefer its economy and precision. I may go back to san soo at some point to develop that predatory mindset, once I've mastered my mother art.

[Yung Apprentice]

I hear a few on here say they used to train in it, or they hear the San Soo ppl are real animals. Why does no one want to train in it though? How would one of you deal with a San Soo person if they're really as bad ass or dirty fighters as they're said to be?

[Black Jack]

Who said that no one wants to train in it??????????????

My plate is quite full at the moment but I would not bark at crossing hands with a San Soo guy again, they have some good stuff, plus the lack of ego was nice.

[JasBourne]

Honestly? I found the system sloppy. Once again, I don't know if where I studied is truly indicative of the system. But from what I saw, there's too much wasted motion and lack of focus. You can only do so much with 'predatory mindset' if you don't have good physics behind it.

Not slamming any of the dedicated sansoo people here. Just my personal experience. The guy asked. ;)

[Black Jack]

Jasbourne, I totaly agree with that description.

Sloppy IMHO meaning that there is a LOT of stuff thrown at you at to fast a rate, some of that stuff being real good stuff, some of the stuff sloppy and a bit dangerous, but a lot of stuff either way, which may breed bad physics if the basics on power generation are not established early.

That is only my humble and maybe uneducated opinion though, do not let it stop anyone from checking it out, the people I met were very nice and pretty good at what they do.

[Braden]

BlackJack - Just off topic, what are you into in your training now, if you don't mind me asking? You always seem to have interesting ideas, and I know you've mentioned in the past 'possibly' going a few ways with your training.

[Yung Apprentice]

What I meant to say was, Howcome no one SEEMS to want to train in San Soo.

[Black Jack]

Whats up Braden,

I have chosen which way I want to go after my self-thinking period, I am working on two things which I have a "always" had a deep passion for, WWII military close combat/western martial arts and Bando.

I am have been working real hard on getting into the Bando circle on a full-time training basis for a number of years now, I have been in phone/e-mail contact with a prominent Bando master in Athens Ohio, who has a black sash student here in Chicago, my first step was to send in a bio/resume of myself for a criminal background check, which I have already done.

The next is to meet with the teacher here in Chicago for an interview, then if I pass, go down to Athens for the weekend for an interview with the Chief Instructor and attend my first training session.

On the close combat training I am working with a small group of guys and a even a few real deal "old-timers" who study and train in these matters, Fairbarin, Applegate, O'Neal, Kelly, Styers, Biddle.

I left my old JKDC training because of some problems I have with the commerical nature of what I was seeing, though it is still a big part of me in some respects, and good training for anybody interested, but it is just not me anymore, I am following my true heartstrings now.

Thanks for asking!

[Waidan]

One thing I will agree with is the tendancy for KFSS practitioners to be "sloppy", especially when it comes to leverages. Obviously it depends on the individual, but in my experience a lot of practitioners never quite get the speed and body positioning (spacing) to properly apply their leverages/holds.

KFSS tends to give you a heap of information, and let you find what works for you. If a student is possessed of dedication, and takes the initiative to work on the material at length on his own and in small groups, this is a bonus. But for the casual student, it can lead to poor form, and a "quanity over quality" approach.

[MIKSANSOO]

as to being sloppy. I would have to agree that most are slopyy. but mind you not to put everyone in that same boat. at least not me:)

[MIKSANSOO]

also keep in mind. that it depends on how you are taught and trained. i've seen guys that just plain suck and ive seen some that good. you also have to understand that the begining of your training is primal. it will get more advanced through the years. you don't really get good til after 5 years or so (imo). a lot of san soo people dabble in other arts. but san soo usually stays their main art.

[Shaolindynasty]

Is san soo the same thing as the 'modern day white lotus" created by Douglas Wong?

[Black Jack]

ShaolinDynasty,

No, they are something different, San Soo is supposed to be a older system, I don't know how old but not 20th century by any means, or at least what I remeber.

They have family scrolls I think which go back pretty far??????