Doing chi sao with beginners

[Wingman]

It is said that Yip Man doesn't do chi sao with his students especially beginners.

One reason might be: Doing chi sao with beginners develops bad habits. If you do chi sao with a beginner, you have to go down to his level. This means that you oftentimes have to make a weak move/technique. Executing a weak move/technique consistently can become a habit.

Do you guys agree or disagree?

[Roy D. Anthony]

I have also heard this. However, I do not believe that it was for the reason of developing bad habits.
Ip Man the Grandmaster would not have any fears of developing bad habits, don't you think?
My belief , is that it had something to do with ranking. There may be another reason as well, in the later years, he was ill. and yet another reason, Chi Sao is to develop skills, I don't think he needed to develop them at his level!

[edward]

actually working with beginners is quite good. you develop more from working with beginners than from someone whose better than you or equal.

when you work out with beginners its easier to see the line, to see paths of attack, to control your opponent. you can't do this when someone is better than you coz he'll be controling you

[PosterBoy]

I am a complete beginner and a more advanced student if not taking things a bit slower would obviously just whip my arse.

I think you need to find a balance so both people are getting something from the training.


I need to obviously see the repercussions of outward pressure, elbows not in enough etc but in a way that inspires me and doesn't discourage me.

I think people probably forget when they were beginners and all this was not natural to them.

[anerlich]

The best way to improve is to constantly train - chi sao, sparring, rolling, whatever - with your technical superiors.

For that to work though, your technical superiors have to be prepared to make that "sacrifice" for you. And the same applies to you if you are to assist those that come after you.

I doubt that working out with an inferior every now and then is going to hurt you, unless you choose never to work with anyone remotely challenging.

Anyone who refused to work with his students because he were scared of losing skills as a result would IMHO make a poor teacher.

[AndrewP]

I agree with edward on this one.

[old jong]

Beginners have to chi sau with advanced guys to learn! Advanced guys have to chi sau with beginners to share and learn also!...The strangest and most bizarre attacks always come from beginners!;)

[rubthebuddha]

old jong is right on this one.

plus, i like working with beginners because of one important thing: it forces me to work on my basics. since i'm not going to throw every attack i know at them and instead shall keep it to a more reasonable level, it's the perfect opportunity to just focus on my basics and nothing more.

[Wingman]

Thank you for your responses.

I posted this thread after I was doing chi sao with someone who is still new to chi sao. While we were doing chi sao, he threw a punch which is not aimed at my centerline. Instead of blocking his punch, I executed a centerline punch to the chest. He was surprised at what I did and asked why I did it.

Before I answered his question, I asked him why his punch was not aimed at the centerline. He said that he was afraid to hit me. He said that he and his other chi sao partner aim their strikes a little off the centerline for fear of hitting each other. I told him that hitting a little off the centerline is wrong and could develop into a bad habit. Blocking a punch that is not aimed at the centerline is ever "more" wrong. Instead of blocking, attack the center. His "off the centerline" punch would not hit you. Even if it did, your centerline punch will hit him first.

We were discussing this when one commented that when doing chi sao, the higher level practitioner must make adjustments in order to go down to the level of the lower level practitioner. This means that the higher level practitioner sometimes has to make a wrong/weak move or technique. That got me into thinking. If the higher level practitioner constantly make a wrong/weak move or technique to accomodate the lower level practitioner, wouldn't it become a bad habit?

That's why I posted the thread. Thanks again for your responses.