Being 3 Dimensional

[mantis108]

Hi Josephx,

<<<“When you are capable of both horizontal and vertical thinking, you are in fact capable of 3 dimensional thinking (abstract thoughts) which is one of the training objectives of the I Ching.”

Mantis 108,

I would have thought both horizontal and vertical thinking are 2-dimensional abstract thoughts, to make it 3-dimensional (come alive) we need to consider the practical applications. When we have the inputs from the x, y and z-axis we will know where we stand (wisdom).

It is not a criticism, it is a clarafication. I really enjoyed your posting, I just like to highlight the importance of integrating theory with practice and abstract thoughts with real action, otherwise the I Ching is just another book.

JosephX>>>

First and foremost, No problem. :D thank you for the kind words and excellent inputs. I also enjoy your posts as well. :)

"I would have thought both horizontal and vertical thinking are 2-dimensional abstract thoughts, to make it 3-dimensional (come alive) we need to consider the practical applications. When we have the inputs from the x, y and z-axis we will know where we stand (wisdom)."

In a way z-axis forms a plane (2D - ie XZ, YZ) with either x or y axis. ;) I can see that I should have mentioned the Z-axis (real action) as well since eastern teaching is holistic. One should not seperate them. Thank you for the reminder.

For me, 3-dimensional would be more than just coming alive. It would be more than the 3 axes (6 points that form the origin coordinate) involved because there is a 7th point (destination) which means there is a path (Tao of whatever). ;) That is what I would call the 3 Dimensional (Martial Arts) Plateau. So you see you are absolutely correct that I Ching is not just another book. :) I love your inputs, please keep 'em coming. :D

Regards

Mantis108

[Rolling_Hand]

hi Mantis108,

Check this out :
http://home.vtmuseum.org/timeline/2001/may05-06_2001_a.php

* 3-dimensional concept
* Saam Mauh Kiuh concept
* Bak-Mei and Wing Chun Eddie Chong Sifu
* Vtmusem curator Benny Meng

[extrajoseph]

Hi Mantis,

Thanks for the kind words. Ahh... Yes, there is Time, the 4th. dimension, we must not forget that! Throw the right punch at the right time....that's real martial art.

JosephX

[mantis108]

Hi Rolling Hand,

"After the physical training, Mike Mathews, a student of Sifu Meng, spoke about the origins of the Time and Space concept. The Time and Space concept originated in the Southern Shaolin Temple with the Chan concept of Saam Mouh Kiuh or Three Connecting Bridge. The Saam Mouh Kiuh concept points to three levels of reality: 1) Fou Kiuh, or wandering, 2) Saan Kiuh, or separate and 3) Wing Kiuh, or eternal. At the Fou Kiuh stage of realty, one is not aware. In terms of combat one is not aware of time and space. At the Saan Kiuh stage of reality one realizes reality but is separate from it. In terms of combat one can recognize time and space, usually referred to as timing and distance. At the Wing Kiuh stage of reality, one is aware of time and space and maintains harmony with it. In terms of combat each motion is in harmony with time and space, there is neither wasted time, wasted space, nor wasted energy."

Thanks for the link. :) The Saam Mouh Kiuh concept would be with reference to the practice of Wing Chun (or whichever way you prefer to spell it). It would seem that it covers the space/time continuum as well. That would be beyond the scoop of 3- Dimensional plateau (but then would our reality make sense if we break it down into space and time?). In the above text, we can also see that it is focus on the expression in combative form of the human faculties (physcial and mental). I am (as we were on the other thread) discussing the beyond. There is a time when we need to step out from what perceived to be matrix (local) and connect with the larger whole (global). We will eventually comes to term that there are only universal principles but no galactic laws.


Sui-fuw,

Me no understand,pleaz. Define one dimensional[head buzzing]. You so deep. ;) LOL ... See 2 can play the game. :) a word of advice if you are interested in having a discussion with me (really?), please do not play coy with me. I have very little patient with that type of behavior. It is extremely irritating. Thank you.

Josephx,

Space-time continuum, exactly. :)

Thanks

Regards

Mantis108

[extrajoseph]

Apart from the space/time continuum, the Chinese also talked about appropriate human actions. An enlightened person (a guanzi) or an effective martial artist for that matter, would act in accordance with the San Cai, the Three Gifts of Heaven, Earth and Human (Tian, Di and Ren). The upshot is that us human beings should live in tune with Heaven and Earth, which are the Yin and Yang components of Nature. The Earth part is related to Space (the Tangible) and the Heaven part is related to Time (the Intangible), so to be a Guanzi or a Wuzhi (an effective martial artist) we need to know how to act appropriately in a given space and time. As long as we are around we are being affected by Space and Time, but when we are not around space/time continuum has no meaning.

Since we have to live in space and time and time changes and space/orientation also, we have to constantly evolve and change as well. In other words everything is relative and the only constant is change. All these so called esoteric concepts, like Wuji, Taiji, Liangyi, Sixiang, Wuxing, Liuren, Xiantian and Huotian Bagua, Hetu, Luoshu, Chinese Numerology, Chinese Astrology etc. etc, are no more than theoretical constructs the Chinese made up, in order to analyse and to understand the nature of Changes in our life, hence the I Ching or Yijing is called the Book of Changes. It is a useful book for the martial artist as well as for the scholars and philosophers.

In light of what we are saying, a martial artist is a warrior of the Fifth (the Human) Dimension. In short, how to struggle to find a way (the Tao) to be a human.

JosephX

[mantis108]

"excuse me are we on another thread?i thought you didn't hold grudges?however would it be that it is you who is trolling now?"

No, I don't hold grudges, but I do get irritated by folk(s) who keep throwing right hand leads. ;) I am sorry that's what you get when implied that you know ALL but not willing, able, or allowed to share. Please remember that the key word and key action is sharing information and knowledge. It is not a contest of "I got a bigger brian than yours."

"that was a seriouse question,though you don't want to answer it to help me out,why?have i ever offended thee?[personaly]"

Was that a question? You seem to have the answers already [the way you phrased it]. That's why I humbly asked you for your defination of the One dimension (otherwise known as linear dimentsion). If you are truly in the spirit of sharing, you would have go right a heard to share your views instead of accusing me trolling on my thread. Help you out on what? If you know the answer and you expect me (or others) to do the explaining [for...?] I am not your personal assistant to pick up your pieces. You started it; finish it. Don't take the food that you aren't going to eat . That's wasteful. If you are not sure of or understand other's point of view, then just simply say "you know that's interesting, I would love to hear it." Many others have done this. There is no shame in not knowing exactly what the other person is talking. No, you have not offended me, but it is irritating for me to have to go throught pointless games which is what I perceived your "serious question" was. How would you feel if I were to ask you "is there such a thing as linear dimension?" as a respond. I don't play your games and your rules, that's just it. It doesn't mean that I hate your guts or hold grudges. I hope I have made myself clear. If you feel that I irritate you by imitating your style of writting, then you know how others feel about your style of writting. That, my friend, is for you to think about.

"the fact is i knew chow fuk,not personaly,but the world is a small place,the hakka comunity even smaller.i also know that chow fuk taught his students the one dimentional theory[advanced students]therefore you should be able to help me out,but if you can't then you can't.thats not my fault is it?"

Please don't even go there. You "practically" know every Lung Ying and Bak Mei Sifu (as you claim). Meltdawn is more firely than I am when it comes to the Sifu issue. That same tactic won't work on me. Again is there such a thing as One Dimensional? What is your defination? You want my views, you will have to share yours.

"but to play the game isn't to parrot a question put before you.2nd,3rd,4th are nothing without the first dimention,don't you agree? "

I don't agreed because it is the other way arround. Linear, 2D, and 3D are nothing without the 4D (and could not exist without the 4D). They co-exist. The question lies wether you realize that space-time continuum exist the way it is dispite of the whichever way you perceive it to be. Reread what Josephx have said. He is a fine example of sharing knowledge.

Josephx

Yet another find post from a CLF freind. :)

Regards

Mantis108

[extrajoseph]

Hi Sui Fuw,

Please leave me out of it. I have enough trouble with my CLF brothers already. It is so easy to be misunderstood. Mantis is a nice and genuine guy, so take it easy my friend.

Peace.

JosephX

[CLOUD ONE]

Lineardimension 2D 3D etc. Is breaking things down and scientifically putting them under a microscope to understand the NO DIMENTIONAL THEORY.

So Who is correct only fingers pointing to the moon.
Reading a book does not give you knowledge unless you get a light bulb sign on top of your head whan you read between the lines. I am not saying you cannot be enlightened by words but not everyone will get the same enlightenment from the same words.

Who is right? who is wrong?
There is only one way to find out that is if you think you are a warrior then cross hands. If you think you are a scholar then cross hands. if you are a Scholar Warrior then?

Do we learn from the answer or the question?

[extrajoseph]

"Do we learn from the answer or the question?"

You learn by doing, by being. That is why you are called a human being.

JosephX

[Yum Cha]

Sifu tells of a retarded kid who was bullied in his town. He came to the school to learn Pak Mei, and wouldn't leave. After a few weeks they decided that they would teach him, but he couldn't learn any patterns because of his disability. So, they taught him Kao La and Sak Choi. That's all.

He practiced and practiced and practiced. One combination. He would fight, and everyone knew what he would do. At first he was easy to defeat.

Now, nobody can defeat him, even though they know exactly what he will do. He scares even the best fighters. Even though he is simple minded. Even though he has only one lesson.

Does this fit into this discussion at all? Am I understanding what you are talking about?

[fiercest tiger]

you sure the retarded guy isnt me? im a simple minded guy too, i really cannot comment on this thread as i dont really understand this theory.

yes sui fuw im simple minded!!:D

[extrajoseph]

That sure is a neat story. Do have another Cha Sil Bow and I'll top up your tea for you!

JosephX

[Yum Cha]

Well, er, ah, let's just say the names were changed to protect the innocent...

Er, I also know somebody who's pole draws flies, but I think thats for another thread, eh?

[Shaolin Master]

... an overcomplication!

[mantis108]

Believe it or not that includes Sui-fuw, too. [from the accussed grudge holder.] *sigh*

Josephx,

Thanks for the kind words. Really appreciate it. I am sure the feeling is mutual. :)

Cloud One,

Thank you those are some words of wisdom. [note to Sui-Fuw: that the kind of honest opinion that I think of as sharing] BTW, I am not in any way, form, or shape saying that Sui-Fuw and Cloud One are the same person.

peace

Yum Cha,

Nice story. Certainly have a moral behind the story. Appreciate that. Thanks :)

Sui-Fuw,

You seriously have some major issues with the Sifu thing. May be someone, who claimed to be a Sifu had hurt you both emotionally and financially in the pass? For that I am sorry. But not everyone (or every Sifu for that matter) would have the same unfortunate experience. Let it go. It is Karma. Go search for more. If you have lost all faith in any Sifu then do your own thing like Bruce Lee did. I am not person of empty talk. I have a prescription for you already - reread the Bak Mei 5 animal couplet. There are lots of wisdom in those 2 lines alone. It is not all about Sifu, forms, tradition. You as a student of Kung Fu has the responsibilities too. Lighten up, move on. The main thing is you have to be strong like Bruce as well. So what if the world is against what I have to say, I know my stuff. Can you do that? Can you come out of the closet and honestly said "here I am, I read my Kung Fu from books and magazine. Here's certain things I can't figure out and I love to learn more about it through the help of forum members." Can you just simply do that? I am sure your style of presenting yourself is fine by a lot of the members here. Because there seem to be somewhat Zen about it [note that I used the term Zen not Ch'an] . But you know what there is a difference between Confusionism and Zen. Most people are nice about it, I am just cruel to be kind to you. Because I hate to see that you are but circle walking and not apply yourself to a different plateau.
But hey that's your life, do as you please. If you merely wanted to say basic is important in Kung Fu as a reminder, say so. I appreciate that. But then we need not be discussing what linear plateau emcompasses because you presumed that's what I was referring to. If it is that simple, we don't have to take Kung Fu as our way. Just do some aimless sports. Why are so many sports people feel so hollow after reaching their top performances? Because they are linear. Same thing with the Mcdojo and Mckwoon. Anyway, think what you will of me. BTW, I am a fish or an animal. Baiting won't work. So please save it. :P

Shaolin Master,

Good point. Without the overcomplication, where does the oversimplification begins. ;) Sorry can't help myself. :D

Everyone know the Hui Neng story and the poem(s). But who, in this day and age, see both sides of the story. People see higher or lower attainment , or the right or wrong answer. It simply is two sides to a plane. Simple story or a complicated one is all about being Human - your choice, my friend. :)

Peace

Mantis108

PS every wonder why after the Six Patriarch of Ch'an everything seems quite down? I know I have said too much and I should just shut up. :cool:

[CLOUD ONE]

M108 you presumption is spot on. How long did it take you to know that sui and me are a different kettle of fish?

Although your view on things are a shade narrow minded.

It all depends when people use the term SiFu. What does it mean to you, to me, to Yum, to extra, and not forgetting F.t.

BTW wisdom cannot be shared!!!

Only the wise know if you have a bite on the line:rolleyes:

It is so nice you have come off your pedestel and talked on a personal level.;)

Yum Cha- I don't get it, what are you saying about this retard?

[CLOUD ONE]

M108 you presumption is spot on. How long did it take you to know that sui and me are a different kettle of fish?

Although your view on things are a shade narrow minded.

It all depends when people use the term SiFu. What does it mean to you, to me, to Yum, to extra, and not forgetting F.t.

BTW wisdom cannot be shared!!!

Only the wise know if you have a bite on the line:rolleyes:

It is so nice you have come off your pedestel and talked on a personal level.;)

Yum Cha- I don't get it, what are you saying about this retard?

Extra nicely put, but then again what have you learned on this forum?
What does it mean in your eyes to be human?

[Yum Cha]

Cloud,
I'm not saying anything about intellectually disadvantaged (retarded) people in general. I think the moral of my story is about simplicity and directness, but as you so wisely said, wisdom can't be shared. I suppose I should ask you what you think I'm saying.

I was looking for an understanding of the discussion of dimensionality, citing an example and wondering if it exhibited any lessons in dimensionality.

Understanding is a funny thing, lots of people find their way to the same point by different roads. What is the best road? The one that takes you there. One reason is because we all start in different places.

[fiercest tiger]

Money, Money and more MONEY! GIVE IT ALL TO ME, HOW MUCH FOR YOUR DAUGHTER, I MUST HAVE HER!

:D ;)

Hi Cloud
seriously you will never know what my sifu meant to me, so sifu to me is more personal not a word!
later
FT:)

[CLOUD ONE]

Yum cha thanks for the sharing.
I hope you and your road are very happy together;)
BTW- make sure the road doesn't crumble below your feet!!!

FT-How is your relationship with your sifu, now he is dead.
Do you still regard him in any way? What dimension has he reached?
This is not to p1ss you off but what is your take on what happens to the student when their sifu passes over?

[fiercest tiger]

Well i still think of my sifu everyday and still here , feel and smell his presence as like he is right beside me. I was only at the cemetry 2 days ago cleaning his grave in the rain!!

As for other people i dont know how they are all i know is who is loyal and who isnt, but still its in the heart and in mind of the person. I am a loyal student to him and YKM and always will be, i am an emosional person in many ways as you probably know. I change like the wind when people talk as half of you know on KFO, sometimes im nice next post angry hahahah depends.

I often ask myself will i cry so much if my own father passes?:(

hope you understand what im saying here, sorry for raving!!


cya
FT