How detailed are you when it comes to.......

[Shaolindynasty]

I was wondering how detailed some of you guys are when looking at other Sifu or schools of martial arts before you dismiss them as being fraudulent or BS. Do you base your judgment on a wide variety of things or just based on one inconsistancy? For instance on the internal board there is allot of questioning about Erle Montage(sp?). People say he sucks because his veiw of history isn't right, yet most people against him admit he is a good Tai Chi player. I guess my question is how far does somone have to go before you dismiss them or have written them off? Do you think you should see or experience them in action personally or is printed information and pictures usually enough?

The reason I am asking is due to the recent article in Kungfu mag that is a big topic here. I don't nessecarlly beleive or not beleive in Qi projection and that's not what this topic is about. My question is how much do you have to see or hear before your mind is made up or you are pretty sure someone is not what they claim?

[Cody]

Pictures and written documentation, while interesting, don't do it for me. I find videos helpful. But, if I am making a serious judgment, I need to personally see the person at work. And if still interested, experience contact. I look for certain things right off the bat. Then, I extend into what I know by feel, not what anyone else tells me. I'm not interested in PR dispatches.
I will admit that sometimes, for instance, watching masters' demos, I'm not sure how deep the person's knowledge is. I think it would be presumptuous of me to assume that I could adequately evaluate people this way as a matter of course given my limits. There's lots hidden, and that's what I am looking for.

It can be a look, or an overly cooperative partner in a demo which can lead me to thinking: "No way." an instant. Or, the training might be there, but I still turn away, not wanting to investigate further.

Cody

[red5angel]

I tell people to always do thurough research. In the information age, it isnt hard to track down someones credentials, and dont make snap judgements before you know the facts. I think we should all keep an open mind.

[Shaolindynasty]

Interesting. Me personally I like to research as many possible DIFFERENT sources of information reguarding whatever is under question. I find though I have a "spidey sense" when it comes to people making false claims tha leads to me researching them. For instance when I read some James Lacey articles in Kungfu magazine I felt there was somthing that didn't sit right. Later I saw a whole controversy over him explose on the boards. I still haven't seen anything like video of him so he is on my suspect list. Yet the same goes for allot of people like Paulie Zink etc. Personally I almost always disreguard fantastic historical claims right of the bat. Or in the instance of temple kungfu a website is enough I think.

[Wongsifu]

usually i will see how they act what they say and how their are in combat/application

For example this girl i saw recently had amazing structure and body positioning in tai ji. But at the end of th eday she had no concept of chi and no power... And she had this new age flair to it what can i say.

On the other hand her bf did Wing Chun and he couldnt explain what wing chun was about but his techniques were ok...

but usually what i grade ppl on is their understanding of internal and application in real combat

[Lao Shan]

It is a waste of time criticizing others when you can be improving yourself.

[Ray Pina]

If it looks like a critique, and smells like a critique...

Actually, I don't like to give my final judgement until I have crossed hands with someone. But, let's say a certain someone has a web site. Wouldn't they want to post their most complimentary photo?

Well, if I looked at soemone's profile, checked their Web page and found, say, someone doing a really nice high kick, but then lookek closely and found that there hands were all over the place to maintain the balance while doing said high-kick -- I would think, maybe this guy picked his worst photo to show to the world, or, maybe this guy isn't good enough to even realise that what he is doing is ugly.;)

The same could be said for a posture. If you are going to post or publish a photo, wouldn't you want it to represent the truth as you know it. If that photo goes against scientific principles for power, balance, ect, then it could make one question.

But, I always felt learning from a book, video or magazine was rediculous. Even seminars. This is not "How to bake a cake 101." Time and a great teacher is what is needed.

[Budokan]

No, it's a knee-jerk reaction with me.:p

Actually, it doesn't take much homework (or brain power for that matter) to determine whether or not a style or a technique is baloney or the real thing. Especially when you've been in MA for an extended period of time.

[red_fists]

I normally don't try to judge other People. And if I do I will normally keep it to myself.

But will do research in a variety of media.

Said that I find that Videos will give you a good indiction, but can be misleading.

FWIW, I never judge any Skill based on somebodies performance in a Movie.
(Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Jackie Chan,etc. )

I have found the even a live demo can be misleading.

Said that I prefer 3rd party facts over facts given by the person himself.

Apart from that I agree with Lao Shan.

[anerlich]

One of my teachers knows Erle Montaigue fairly well and says he is a good technician and pretty knowledgeable.

He is controversial mainly for his outspokenness and willingness to trash other stylists, sometimes legitimately, sometimes (IMO) not. He has published a lot of uncomplimentary stuff about Geroge Dillman, for example, and he and a couple of Gracies had an infamous war of words a few years back, kicked off by an article he wrote.

I've been subjected (painfully) to my teacher's "nerve point" attacks, and, after painful first hand experience, believe in the efficacy of striking or seizing weak points of the anatomy.

But I've yet to be convinced regarding everything he says about Dim Mak, or about the great (and according to him, obvious) superiority of the Internal styles.

But he's not a fraud.

Lao Shan is correct. If you don't want to study with the person forget about them.

But if you're seeking to improve yourself by learning from a new teacher or tape sellers on the internet, caveat emptor and you need to do some research. Word of mouth and multiple testimonials from independent sources is most reliable IMHO. Try to get a picture of where he stands quality-wise compared to others doing similar things.

If the guy trys to build himself up by trashing others, beware. If his stuff is good, it should be able to stand for itself.