Maximum flexability needed?

[EARTH DRAGON]

I have never been very flexable, I have tried many stretches, yoga, dynamic, acrobatic etc.etc but have never been able to split, touch my head to my knees or elbows to the ground. When I tested for BB back in my gojuryu days it was essential to kick very high although I could kick my height 6'2 it was extremly hard for me and also not very graceful. When I started in mantis was happy to practice low kicks and just skim over the high ones.

My questions is this, how many feel that flexability hinders or helps with fluidity, agaility, dexterity and gracefulness?

Also do you feel like maximum chi flow is restricted by not being able to perform the lotus or frog flats?

[grifter721]

I think flexibility can only help you out in the martial arts.
My older kung fu brother has AMAZING flexibility and he throws it in to his "Style" of Mantis. His Punches and kicks can literally come out of nowhere. However I dont think that flexibility is the key to everything in Ma. There is another older kung fu brother in class that is not as flexible it seems but has teh best kung fu I have seen in all the senior students. So flexibility can help you but it wont necasarily make the kung fu any better or worse, its all on how you can do things.
I am currently doing yoga to loosen up my body, I say you should stick with it, it helps to "soften" the ligaments as my sifu would say.
As for your chi terms I dont know much chinese so I cant help ya there.

[NPMantis]

-

[NPMantis]

Dear Earth Dragon,

You should always practice what you are worst at or you'll never get any better!

Flexibility is important (though of course you would never use any high kicks in a combat situation) - the more flexible you are the faster and more powerful your kicks due to less resistance, so keep up the practice, it may not come straight away but it will come in time, just practice regularly - make sure you stretch at least a couple of times a week when you are warm.

If you mail me at admin@freelondon.org I'll mail you back a long article I have got recently on stretching (looks ok thought I haven't had a chance to read it properly).

Best regards,

Mantis

[TaiChiStorm]

Another advantage of flexibility is that it is harder for your opponent to hurt you in some situations. Throwing or special grappling technics are difficult to use effectifely ,when the person is flexible. But if you avoid getting on the ground or something like this in a fight ,I think you don't need that much flexibility.

[fei]

FYI,

Being too flexible is not good for kung fu. Sure, your ligaments are much looser and you can manipulate your body a lot more, but your legs will not have the strength that they need. When you are too flexible, your stances are not as strong, your kicks may be fast but they will be week. The mechanics of your body will not be well suited for effective kung fu.

But yes it's true you should have a good degree of flexibility, it'll help out in different areas of your kung fu, but that also depends on what you are practicing. If you enjoy more of the hand work, you don't need to be extremely flexible, just be sure you know how to use your legs properly in any given situation.

I use to be very flexible when I as young. And not until now was I told from my sifu taht I was too flexible. (after I went away for a bit my flexibility wasn't as loose as it use to be) It's not very well suited for practicing kung fu. It's good for speed, but not good for strength and power. no stablility when you get older cuz your legs are going to be very loose.

Flexibility can help with your flow of movements, but depends on how you are already. If you can do your movements fluidly then you're pretty much fine. otherwise yeah get a little more flexible and try different things. you should be able to go from stances to stances quickly, as of course doing PM you need that.

[artstudio]

I disagree with fei. Being flexible does not mean a lack of strength. I have actually found that as I get more flexible, my stances and footwork has deepened. Not only does that give more stability to the stances, but also strengthens legs in the process.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

You only need enough flexability to perform your techniques unhindered. Flexability prevents the muscles from working against each other. However, if you will never kick straight up in the air then there is no need for that much flexability. Same goes for splits.

[PaulLin]

I think that all should be balanced. But I need to explain that in this case.

First, in my knowledge, muscell are used for holding positons and attachments, we don't use it to gernerat power.

Tendon is used to generat power. Stretches is a must. But stretches are different, some are made to longer the tendon and some are made to strengthen the tendon inorder for power use.

In 8 step, GM Wei has mention alot in class: Ning lain ching chang yi fen, bu lain rhou ho yi tzan. (it means if you can get one mm more in tendon, don't exchange the practice to increase a foot of muscel.

The min. stretch level is not very hard, just good enough to touch your toes with the buttom of you palm is good(knees staight). More then that is made for specail moves and not regular practicing. A lot of people must be no-sex-activaties to achieve that (Tung Tzi).

That is what I known

[fei]

Let my just clarify what I was saying.
In my post I was talking about being "too" flexible where it would hinder your training.

I did was not saying that being flexible was in any way bad,
in fact you should not be "TOO" flexible. If you are overflexible you won't be able to keep the strength you need for your training.

For adults, if you were not flexible before, yes you need to be flexible to get a good balance.

But if you think in terms of being way too flexible, it won't help you much. You'll still be able to do your training, but not to the maximum potential of your body.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I am able to touch my palms to the ground, kick over my head and things like that , however I am not able to sit in lotus, do a split, frog flat, and various other things, as I watch the fighting monks I am amazed at the level of flexibilty that they have and realize that they have been practicing since birth. But i would like to know if when you are older 30 and above if it is too late to gain the amount of flexability. and I am curoious to know if anyone has...

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

EARTH DRAGON
I'm in about the same situation as you with flexibility. My flexibility has always been above average naturally and it get's better when I make an effort yet I've never been able to do a split. I can still kick head high but in my younger days it was much higher with a lot less effort. Even in my 20's after years of training I couldn't do a split. Now that I'm over 40 I suspect that I never will but I keep trying anyhow. The point here is that it hasn't really held me back. I'm flexible enough to execute all my techniques without overstretching and causing injury. This includes kicking to the head of tall guys who aren't used to defending against head kicks since no one ever kicks them there. It's a good surprise tactic. If any of your techniques are hindered due to a lack of flexibility then invest more time into stretching. In my opinion and from what I've learned in the past stretching longer is better than the number of times you do a stretch. Also, try to get in little stretches during your normal day. When I sit down for lunch I fold one leg up over the other like a half lotus. Sometimes full lotus. If I'm standing in line I twist one foot in or out and turn my waist. Sometimes I fold one leg up while standing so I get a leg stretch and balance exercise at the same time. That's about when I get the strange looks and my wife pretends she doesn't know me.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Thanks for the advice, I do find myself trying as you suggested, like keeping my knees locked when I bend down for something and when I lay in bed I bring my legs up like a lotus but it is uncomfortable.

Its not that I am so inflexable it hinders my abilities, but I have a student that is like rubber and it makes me jealous. He can stand and lift his leg slowly over his head. He has a beautiful lotus that i took a picure of in our photos page simply becuse it look so good.

Again maximum flexability is not needed to perform most of the techniques in our system but It sure wouldnt hurt.

[spiralstair]

ED:
This http://www.totalimmersion.net/products/112.html is the best help I've found in loosening the Big 4 (hips and shoulders). This is a product that many top level college swim coaches use to increase strong and fluid movement in their competitve swmmers. 'Strong and fluid',also happens to be a description of good martial movement.
It is a short (5-7 minute) stretching routine that gives great results from a dedicated application.

[dre]

Fei . .

I'm double jointed, and I can kick like a mule. Dosen't that just blow your theory to crap?

[danny from miami]

splits are very easy and they dont weaken anything at all. get "Stretching Scientifically" by Tom Kurz.