The flip side to bad teachers

[Ray Pina]

We are always talking about bad teachers and phonies. How about bad students?

I can say, I've been blessed with good teacher's my entire life -- every last one of them. I'm thankful for this. BUT, I've seen people at every school I've been to who have been with a teacher for some time and just don't get it.

Yes, everyone learns at there own pace, but, there are physical mistakes (no one's perfect) and there are mental mistakes (just plane lazy, lack of effort or outside practice). I feel bad for teachers when this happens. They put in so much time, especially the ones that care. Yes, they are getting paid, but I almost feel like these time waisters should pay double.

For teachers out there, what's your experince on this? Thoughts? It would be nice to here it from your side.

[myosimka]

It's aggravating and frustrating but then so am I. If my teachers stuck with me, it's the least I can do. Plus it's always a pleasant surprise when that turns itself around. With a couple of exceptions the best students I have had started out good, learned quickly and plateaued early. In fact, many of them never developed beyond physical expertise because they didn't need to. Some of the ones who have stuck it out and developed into the best martial artists were the problem children.

In fact, that's one of my problems with junior blackbelts. There is a student of my instructor at his school who is a shodan. She is very pretty to watch. Forms are technically correct, acquires new body positions/movements easily, models things solidly. But I have seen her teach a class and she has no clue what she is doing. If I programmed someone to do karate or did CGI work to teach that's what it would look like but the understanding just is not there. Give me the guy that struggles and develops and improves any day. And that's why I hate seeing kids with black belts.

(Of course this is probably largely motivated on jealousy. My skills are based on knowledge base and understanding and ability to apply it so I think that's where the grading should lie. If I could make things look pretty I'd probably want that to be the criterion.)

So let 'em struggle, let me see them with nostalgia, and let me see them when the light bulb finally comes on. And give me plenty of valium and wellbutrin while I keep flipping the switch hoping for the lights.

[Highlander]

The question is the opposite, but the answer is the same. Personnal Responsibility.

Just like students, teachers teach for different reasons and if those reason aren't being met, they can change things. If a teachers motivation is to produce a world class fighter, then their school and advertising will look quite different from the teacher that likes helping and shaping trouble youths. If a teacher is secure enough and subscribes to the idea that casting a stone in the ocean in L.A. will cause a ripple felt in China, then just casting positive stones in our society each day may be enough. Even if they can't see the eventual result. Each teacher is responsible for making their schools what they want it to be.

Oh, and as far as the lazy students, a teacher of mine once told me that he desired only a handful of dedicated students and the others made that possible by paying the overhead so he and his dedicated students could afford to practice. His need and desired were met.

[Dave Farmer]

My biggest dissapointment is students who are only interested in themselves.

You see them train with the students above them to great intensity, and interest.

When it comes to aiding a new or junior member, they either can't be bothered or go O.T.T. and take advantage.

If the sifu taught like this how would anyone progress?

regards

Dave F

[DelicateSound]

Basically, there are TWO types of student:

1)Average Student:

Turns up for classes usually, works reasonably hard, but frequently is caught chatting to other pupils. Complains that stomach routine is too hard. Understands what he is taught.

2)Good-Excellent Student:

Almost always turns up for classes. Works 110% every time. Enjoys chit-chat, but is always attentive. Enjoys a hard stomach routine. Asks questions about everything to try and understand more, does loads of outside reading, practises every night.


Unfortunately, the first student [who's goal is to become Law from Tekken 3] is often the one to make coy comments on internet message boards. :D They turn up cause they think MA's are "cool", not cause they want to improve themselves, or to learn self-defense.

[Arhat of Fury]

I have seen everyone of these cases that have been mentioned and can commiserate with your feelings.

The way I see it is there are 3 things that a Teacher must posess to have a succesful students-
1) motivation(whatever form that may be)
2) Patience
3) Understanding

3 things a student must posess to be succesful.

1)Motivation(whatever form that may be)
2)The ability to be taught(patience is included in this)
3) Dedication

Just as mentioned before, I think that contrast comes into play. Take student A, if he comes to your class as a clumsy beginner with no coordination and trains hard consistently but still is not good as Johnny Natural, but he is far better than when he started a year ago- He is walking the path of Success. Likewise with fighting aspect, if a complete wimp comes to class, and trains hard for a year and at the end of the year he is not afraid to get in the ring with the big boys, but he still doesnt have the speed or power that Mr. Natural has, he is still walking the path of success. This is where I think understanding from the sifu comes into play.

I think some students get sold short because they are not graded on a curve, by this I mean looking where they're at versus where they came from.

I am however neither of these cases

:D :D

[friday]

talking abut ****ing bad students
how about this

a student who stole money from his sifu
or
a student who grouped with some other students and tried to **** up their teacher by taking as many ppl away from the studio as they could?

or ****ed up teachers
such as one guy who started going swimming with his student (caucasian student)
at something like a few hundred dollars a day
taught no kung fu - only llion dancing and sold the student weapons at a obviously too expensive price. - obvious trick on a guy devoted to learning kung fu.

ppl like this **** me off so bad...
but this thread is correct
u get crappy teachers and carappy students.

my sifu once told me that in his experience...it is very lucky to find a good sifu and just as hard to find good students.

just my input

[respectmankind]

Ego is my most hated trait of both Teacher and Student.

[DelicateSound]

I agree RMK, but Jesus man :) rotate the signatures will you!!!!

Two at a time dude :D