A question in regards to Zhang Zhuang

[Kempo Guy]

Just a quick question on standing practice (Zhang Zhuang).

Over the past few years I have worked with a few different teachers in Neijia and they seem to have varied opinions in regards to keeping your eyes open or shut during standing.

I have read varying opinions on this as well. (although I couldn't name the sources until I looked them up).

So, what are your thoughts on this? Does it matter whether you keep your eyes open or not? And why?
Is there a difference between Xing Yi, Ba Gua and Tai Ji in regards to this?

I look forward to seeing your replies.

KG

[red_fists]

Hi Kg.

We keep our Eyes open, but don't focus on anything specific.

But I think it might be personal, rather than specific.

[Braden]

Open. Your eyelids can droop. Don't stare at anything, but also don't 'wander.'

[Sam Wiley]

I agree with both Braden and red_fists.

Besides, I always start to fall asleep when I close my eyes. People think standing meditation is wierd enough without seeing someone sleeping standing up.:p

[Water Dragon]

I keep my eyes closed. But then, I also like to pop a few ginseng pills, get blown, and run my orbits. I'm a little goofy sometimes.

[red_fists]

Sam.

I learned fast not too close my Eyes during any form of meditation/Qi-Gong.

One of my Instructors always used to sneak up and deliver a "gentle" palm strike to the back of the head.
Or sweep one of the legs out.
Some of the Guys actually went to sleep.

He alway said you need to see the attack coming regardless of what you do.

Said that even in JMA we never fully closed our Eyes.

Granted current sifu often sez after Form practice close your eyes and breathe natural and relaxed.

Seeya.

[taijiquan_student]

We generally keep our eyes open, but if you are circulating your qi in zhan zhuang you can close them half-way. We never fully close our eyes, though.

[Wongsifu]

the differences really ive noticed are for what people wana ahcieve , some people do zhang zhuan with eyes open because it keeps them focused on sometihng doesnt let the mind drift and they can direct their internal energy outwards as well as fixing eyesite.

On the other hand if their closed you can focus internally and are not aware and disturbed from the outside.

Japanese Zen practitioners say that half open half closed is better because it is relaxed you dont HAVE to shut them or HAVE to keep them open thus you are more relaxed and neither here nor their so you are more ..... with it , lets say.

[TaiChiBob]

Considering the point, as i understand it, of meditation, it seems that eyes should be as is natural for the situation.. My experience with meditation leads me to believe that ultimately we are seeking to have a direct unpredjudiced experience.. That when that little voice in our mind (or voices in some cases:) ) is describing our experiences to us, it is the voice of our mentors.. that "mental chatter" is dependent upon past experience, past learning (indoctrination) and, as the experience is filtered through the mind we internalize it verbally, with the familiar mode of language.. in doing so we file it in our mental filing cabinet as we have described it to ourselves (or, as our "mentors" have described it to us).. The point of meditation, as i see it, is to bypass the mental filter and let the experience become a part of "who we are", not an entry into our database..
One of the greatest benefits of Tai Chi is that we train ourselves to move and have this experience while maintaining mental "stillness".. eyes open allows us to absorb the experiences unfolding before us with clarity and stillness.. So it is with combat, if we become part of the process rather than removing ourselves from it.. if we "dance with" our opponent rather than struggle against.. we feel the process as it unfolds, rather observing it unfold then reacting to it.. i hope to one day enter the arena of competition in meditation, with my eyes open, my mind clear and still.. my training having been absorbed as a part of "who i am" and, "dance".. i hope to get past the the "naming" of concepts (ie: Fa-jing, Tui-Shou, Yang, Chen, etc..) and allow my training and discipline express itself through me, through the process i have become..
Remember.. Tai Chi IS meditation in motion..

be well and.. "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"..

[fa_jing]

Haven't had the chance to meditate much lately, but when I did, a cool thing was to keep the eyes open, but not look through them!! I mean unfocus my vision, concentrate on something else.

I thought that was an intersting comment about what closing your eyes does for your balance, I practice a hand form on one leg, without too much trouble, but if I close my eyes, I can't keep my balance at all!

-FJ

[Sam Wiley]

Supposedly, if you practice your forms with your eyes closed, it is easier to keep your balance if you think about the ground beneath your feet. But I can't do it that way, either. Of course, I had severe inner ear damage when I was a child, so that might have something to do with it, too.

[Fu-Pow]

Hmmm...just read an interesting article about this.

I think it may be a bad habit to close your eyes. In terms of martial art you want to have awareness of whats going on around you.

Its probably Ok sometimes if you want to shut out any visual interference and "listen" to what's going on inside.

Sometimes I like to do half closed-half open. This relaxes the eyelids and face and shuts out some light. But I don't feel the nervousness associated with losing sight of whats going on around me (ie I can still make out shadows, so no one can sneak up on me!!!)

[Kempo Guy]

Thanks guys for your feedback... Seems like most of you agree that you should keep eyes open.

I do however have another question for you all. This question may have been covered in the past but I'll throw it out there again.

What do you feel is the purpose of Zhang Zhuang? Is it to increase strength, awareness, proper breathing or is it something completely different?

Look forward for some of your replies.
KG

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

I don't think it matters whether the eyes are opened/closed. What you are experiencing while in Zhang Zhuang is what is important.

Damian

[batesy]

As a beginner I found that if I closed my eyes I would sway a little too much. Eyes open- better stability.