Fighting Fear

[grogan]

Does anyone have any training techniques on Fighting the dreaded Fear. Like a martial artist may be a great fighter within his secure area and training partners but what can prepare him against his legs turning to jelly if confronted by a confrontation that doesn't look easily won.

Are there such techniques to prepare youself against this and if so what are they?

Are there any techniques that don't include sparring/fighting?

One person I knew once said start off with a tiny guy who looks easily beaten then fight your way up, that didn't sound to honourable.


:confused:

[fiercest tiger]

ok! what i like doing is padding one or more guys up to the hilt with helmet and chest,shin, forarm the hole 9! and get them to attack you. You have no protection at all and they can come at you with bats and chairs etc you can add what you want.

Then start on your knee's with one whilst the othe comes at you, or you can be on your back to start etc.

try different scenarios!!!:D

cya
FT:D

[bean curd]

there is nothing as far as i am concerned that will take the shakes out of someone no matter what training you give them.

fear in whatever shape it takes is personal to everyone, not everyone for example shakes because they are scared, but can also be because the adrenalin is coming on.

you can do all the mental prep you want, all the drilling you think they need and put them in every scenario you care too, and it will not matter one bit in the final say on things.

education on how and why people react differently to any given situation is the only thing that MAY assist in helping to overcome fear. understanding for example that fear is a natural occuring emotion in any situation is normal, is one of the first steps to controlling it.

in a gwoon or whereever people train, you can show them everything and anything till your blue in the face, in the end it can come to **** when the " it hits the fan ".

saying all that though the only thing that will ease fear is to practice, practice, practice

[grogan]

Practice everything (of your style)? Or is there some certain training that you think more relates to fear management?

[bean curd]

when i say " practice practice practice " i refer to what you have been taught too at the stage of your development and training.

fear in general terms is " being unsure of the unknown " so common sense would dictate that if what you regard as unknown became known then the " fear " of what to expect can be reduced.

you have to figure out though what is causing the " fear ". is it your ability to fight, your understanding of what emotions naturally occur in any given situation, how you personally react to situations and that others will react again differently to the same situation.

saying this though will not assist you in an outcome favourable to you in a fight, again this would then come down to skill and awarness of what is going on. just because you get into fights everday for example doesn't mean you will become a great fighter and win every fight.


i am from traditional chinese teaching so my processes come from this angle. in gung fu there are three levels of fighting basically known as animal, human and spiritual.

what animal mean in basic terms is that when someone gets into a situation and fights they will resort to what they " instinctivly " know, so this would mean flailing arms, kicking, screaming etc.

human is that part of understanding where you know your animal skills but know wish to improve them into a formal fighting skill. this would mean for example is that someone attacks you in any fashion and you " think logically " on how to rebound that attack. if everything is going well, the human will stay with you, if however you start to " panic " then usually you will resort back to the animal/instinctive situation.

this can be seen easily in tourney fights where you will see two opposing skilled players from two differing style start to fight and you look at them and say " **** they both fight the same " to some degree they have come back to the animal skills.

spiritual is not " spiritual " parce, but leads more to honing your skills so well that the become natural and not human, where in human you are still thinking, you advance to natural.

this follows the principle of novice, intermediate, advanced. these are not words used just to describe you physical ability but also you advancement in mental skills also

hope this helped and is clear enough for you to understand

[redfist]

there are only two fears that we are born with,
the fear of falling and the fear of loud noises,
everything else is a produced by our mind.
if you want to overcome fear by using martial arts as a tool to
build your confidence,
it will only work by developing faith in your training.
i highly recomend you read "think and grow rich"by napolean hill,
he speaks excellently on how fear is generated from self doubt.

our biggest obstical is ordinary view.

you need philosophy in place to undercut the delusion before it
fully arises.

in dealing with fear since it`s produced from the mind,thats the grounds from which it needs to be encountered.

physical torture will not make you mentally tough.

[whippinghand]

Fear is a result of not understanding power. Solution: train.

[fiercest tiger]

if you can train as close to real street combat as possible that is better than not being ready at all!

i do understand your answer but you kind of contradict yourself on the 1st answer.

sorry mate:)

[nospam]

Fear is a natural part of who we are, as are our individual reactions when Fear grips us.

Nothing is wrong about experiencing Fear or the butterflies before a situation happens. That's very common. In these situations, Fear is telling us that we are in a situation we are not comfortable with so if at all possible remove yourself from the situation. This does not always mean fighting.

Often times we believe Fear made us chicken out, but that is mere ego displacing logic. Coming to understand the situations when we have fear can help us learn more about our selves rather than working towards overcoming the emotion of Fear. To me that is much more important and enlightening.

If you are talking about Fear when competing, then confidence in your training and ability and trying your best should ease the physical affects of Fear. Fear enters our thoughts before the fight, sparring session or competitive match, but normally is displaced as soon as the fight begins. I've often said that the activity just before a fight is non-sense. This is when emotions can fill our thoughts and influence us one way or another- faith serves us much better at this pivotable time.

nospam.
:cool:

[bean curd]

FT

dont be sorry no need hahaha.

i understand what you say by " getting close to the real thing " however if the pretext of that is it is going to take the fear out of you then i would strongly disagree, it all comes down to individuality.

no matter how close you play to the " real thing " it is not the real thing. in the mind you always know that when it gets too close someone will/can come in and stop it. if you stuff up, then you live another day to re-think, re-plan, absorb and adjust.

to clarify on this i am not just talking about gung fu, in my previous job i trained daily for such matters, however i can assure you that each person took the position they played in a different light, but all had the one aim in common though, but in the end when things happened, i can tell you the stuff ups where not in the training, and this didn't matter how much we trained.

i am not sure what you mean by " i kind of contradict myself on the 1st question ".

not to pre-empt your reply, however if you are eluding to where i say " nothing can take the shakes/fear out of you " then say " practice practice practice, i don't see this as being a contradiction.

in basic terms what i meant was " if push comes to shove " and someone asks me how do you/i or whoever over come fear, practice "can" and i say only can assist in bring the mind to a balance, however since each person has their own makeup regarding the unknown/pressure/intensity etc, to say " reality awarness " will take fear away, to my view would not only be dangerous but self deluding.

we can practice and understand the results in what we do, however i am sure you like i, when you first hit someone in the stomach you expected to some degree a result of what you had been taught in the gwoon, however like all things they do not do what is expected, and although the skill displayed on your part was correct, you don't know how the opponent will react and what skill they can take and for that matter how ept they are in taking " pain "

this is what i meant by fear, it is abstract and you can't argue or debat on abstract, what you can do though is try to understand yourself.
something foundational though you as an individual can fall back on is your skill, in this you have protection not only physically but also emotionally, by practicing as the old sages have said, will not take fear away it my belay it but certainly not disperse it.

god, i gotta get of this soap box and go get some yum cha, hi FT if we can, still want to come your way if possable, you ok with that, but like i said won't be till june ???

take care

[fiercest tiger]

Hi mate,

i must of miss read what you have said, i totally agree! :) The street to the kwoon is completely different and we never really try and kill our training brother and sisters there. well i hope we dont! Do you use kinematic reactions as part of your training? what are taught in your job are you a police man or in the forces?

You are welcome to my kwoon as long as its in friendship and training! Also i wouldnt mind going over the internal ykm forms you said you have learnt, or any other ykm aspects.:D Im always out to better myself and knowledge so yeah anytime mate, just give me a bell or email near the time so i can help you out here.

take care
FT;)
HAPPY NEW YEAR OF THE HORSE

[bean curd]

FT,

previous job - army.

yes i do use such reactions however not in the same fashion as ykm, lung ying or bai mei. i am from hung kuen and the fashion in which i was taught was again more traditional, meaning the play is understanding chi and ging, to the more modern contexts, plus chinese words are simplier and i can pronounce them easier haha.

for myself i find the context of gung fu is within life and although one can argue for and against modern thinking to classic concepts, i find the classics more easy to understand, all comes down to how you where trained i suppose.

as to visiting your gwoon i can assure you that it would be purley in friendship and education, i would see it no other way.

regarding the ykm though hahaha, well i think you will not learn anything from me, as i said before it was only through my sifu's name that i was given oppertunities, and my ykm was in the late 70's sometime ago know and havn't seen it in many years.

cheers

[fiercest tiger]

LOL, i wont even ask your age as, you started in the 70's i was still breast feeding!:)

I know the ykm G/M was a Hung Gar player before he learnt Pak Mei, i aslo heard he was good friends with Master CHAN in hongkong. i dont know too much about his HG background you may know more?

Well i'll be looking forward to meeting, talking and training when you get here as you have many years a head of me in martial arts, so i do have a few questions for you. You may be able to help me on something as well ill ask you when you show up.:)

thanks again

FT;)

[crazybuddha]

Originally posted by grogan
Does anyone have any training techniques on Fighting the dreaded Fear. .

Are there such techniques to prepare youself against this and if so what are they?

:confused:

The autonomic nervous system works unconsciously to keep the body regulated and consists of sympathetic and parasympathetic nerve systems. They are like the gas and brake pedals on a car. The Sympathetic makes you go faster, the parasympathetic slows you down.

In response to any kind of threat, the sympathetic nervous system will release chemicals which increase the heart rate, breathing rate, blood pressure, blood flow to brain and muscles, dilates pupils, flattens lenses, and releases glucose from the liver. After an initial burst of energy and awareness, this massive physiological change leads to fatigue, weakness, shallow breathing, and poor thinking.

The only way to stop this from happening is to NOT perceive a threat. In the face of uncertainty about your opponent, this is unlikely.

The only part of this process you can consciously control is breathing, which will help restore the default control of the parasympathetic system. This is one of many reasons that it is critical to work on breath control in training.

Here are some suggestions for improved, conscious breathing:

- Inhale through the nose
- Inhale by expanding the abdomen below the navel (without contracting any abdominal muscles)
- Exhale by contracting the upper abdominal muscles
- Accentuate exhaling (the lungs must be "emptied")

And of course, countless repetition of accurate movements in training is the key to building muscle memory. And slow/relaxed is the only road to real speed.

www.crazybuddha.com

[cherrypraxis]

This may seem unrelated to the question of how to train to overcome fear but I am in the opinion that this is quite basic in beginning to understand how to combat/use fear...

All fears have one root: the fear of death.

[bean curd]

all fears have one root - the fear of death.

i would strongly disagree with this. again it all comes down to ones experiances and ones values, and this is why i say it is abstract.

i saw people fear the unknown and pain more than death itself, death only was a passing phase.

this doesn't mean i nor those i have known never thought about it but not to the point of distraction, at the end of the road, death doesn't hurt the ones it takes, it hurts the ones it leaves behind.

fear is a wasted energy that can destroy/distract/delude/drain anyone, if you can harness the energy then turn it to a somewhat benign force , then to some degree it is held in boundaries and in check.

it is usually after the event when everything has calmed down and the realisation that what may have happened didn't or at least didn't come to the final chapter that the mind starts to play games, then you can have problems in a considerable amount of areas of a persons ability coming to terms with what has happened.

fear can form many faces, example something is about to happen and you are afraid of the outcome, or you rely on something that is suppose to work in a stress relaited enviroment and it doesn't live up to its expectations, the fear then can fall on many levels.

to finish off, in any situation you can become a victim of the incident and bow to fear or not, it comes down to how you see yourself.

heres an easy example. your walking along a street and the meanest roughest guy walks towards you and you know he is going to smack you down, take the same guy and he has just grapped your child and is going to smack them down.

how do you react and for that matter how do you see or have seen the same person changed because of the differing circumstancs.

only my opinion and expereance, everyones experiances are different and correct for them

cheers

[cherrypraxis]

beancurd,

i understand your comments and would even agree with the value judgement that you bring up when speaking of fear. in a sense, i was speaking more abstractly when i say that all fears have one root and that is the fear of death. i would have to do a massive amount of research to find the exact case studies but this claim comes from psychoanalytic theory.

there is much to be said about psychoanalytic theory though many people today do not take it seriously. psychoanalysis sprung from a very strong biology background; hence, i pay heed to the theories that arise in psychoanalysis.

on a baser and more basic level, we are afraid because we wish to survive. imagine our h0m0nid ancestors without the faculty of fear. they would have died immediately! fear facilitates responses from the body signalling that the body is endangered. here is where the "flight or fight" response, the adrenalin rush, kicks in and this phenomenon is best desribed by crazybuddha in his post. this flight or fight scenario, or metaphor if you will, can be tailored to almost any situation. you mentioned that you know of some who "fear the unknown and (fear) pain more than death itself." i will translate my position on the matter with this situation you bring up.

yes, these people fear what is unknown and fear pain because they are worse than immediate death. to die slowly is probably worse than dying a quick death. you do not feel the pain. any ordinary person is averse to pain, especially pain that involves great duration. hence, these fears are threats to living and death is seen as the easier alternative.

i am not wholly disagreeing with you, beancurd. i am just saying that, on a deeper level, all fears have one root.

fear is not "bad." it is necessary for survival. again, it is how the feeling of fear is used that makes the difference.

[bean curd]

CP,
what you have said is very true, however again i will always come back to the individual's perspective on fear.

from a clinical perspective you can find if you wish one root, but to the person it is more complicated. survival is more than just wanting to live, but saying this if you don't fear death then there is something seriously wrong with you.

in a hot area you keep your head down to survive but you still have a job to do, failing it, can cause damage in areas you know but also in those you are not aware off. in these situations you do want to survive, but at that point what condition you are in is irrelevent until the taxi comes and gets you, then from there your fear is what is happening in the now, all to confussing all to immediate, but fear is not calculating, in fighting it is the same.

we fear to be defeated,we fear to hurt or be hurt, we fear for the ones we love, so out of fear we ( some not all ) learn to fight.:D

we are talking about the same thing but just from differing view points, in general terms we are in agreement.

siu-fuw

what you have used is also true and this is why again i come back to and always will, the individual perspective on fear. like CP has said and i have a couple of times, fear is abstract, in this fashion it is differing to each person and has many levels, like an apperition or emotion that wavers from one to another with ease, bringing strength in some areas then taking it away in others.

the only reason i responded to this post is that if anyone believes they can take fear out of there personality or someone says they can do it for them, then in all honesty you are deluding yourself,and walk away from anyone who says they can do it for you.

i have never said you can't control or belay fear, i myself have had to do this on many occasions, what i am saying is it is every present and if you understand YOUR fear and can control/ebate/minimise it, then you will function in a manner you are required to do or you are familiar with.


i have said enough on this thanks for the conversation and hope we meet on another thread

cheers

[grogan]

Thanks for all the replies regarding the thread, it did cover a vast area but it did tend to wondre away from training methods to control the fear.

[lo fu la]

fear to hurt someone? then you not fight enough to know hom much mabeycan someone take.

mabey you master? hand so strong, it kill? nooo,master know how NOT to kill. if kill not want to do

onely one thing when come to fighting: hold the hand, you get hurt, do not hold the hand you hurt them.

Hand out,Heart not be kind.

onely one way to understand fear-fight. fight.fight.

[PhoenixPangaryk]

Many people say fear is something we should try to rid ourselves of.

If you can use fear to your advantage, you will be okay. In terms of fight or flight - you need to learn how to establish fear as a trigger to fight - not flight. Some people cower when they feel fear - others perform very well when fear triggers them to respond.

Personally, if I feel fear before going up against an opponent, I do much better in technique and execution as I take the situation more seriously than if I felt no fear at all.


Fear is a fuel - use it accordingly.

[TaoBoy]

Fear is not a problem until it controls you.

What you must do is accept fear and then use it to your advantage. If we did not sense fear, we would most likely get ourselves in a whole lot more trouble. Fear can save you.

To help control your fear - whilst still learning from it - I suggest rigourous technique training. Also, do as much training in 'real life' scenarios as possible. Get in there and spar. Pad up your training partners. Get them to use weapons etc.

Yes, yes this isn't the real world but it will give you a better understand of what goes on. For example, you get hit a few times and learn from it. Chances are you will get hit in a confrontation - you have to accept it and still move forward - it cannot control you.