kung fu in japan, karate in china

[rubthebuddha]

how well accepted are arts from different asian countries within asia? meaning, do japanese people readily accept kung fu, and do chinese people endorse karate, and koreans look at judo with open arms?

i know a few folks on here live in japan and study chinese arts, but i'm curious if a good kwoon is hard to come by on the island, or if solid dojos are few and far between on the mainland.

[NafAnal]

Xingyi is quite popular amongst japanese i hear, not sure about how karate is taken to on mainland china but i imagine not oo well.

[Kristoffer]

I heard that the MOST popular MA in China is actually Taekwando and Judo. Just liek in any other country I guess

[Chinwoo-er]

I think this question boils down to economics and marketing.
I think that which ever organization does the most advertisement, has the greatest reputation, cost the least, etc will have the students.

seriously, nowadays which asian countries so modernised and internationalised that young people has less "feel" with their roots than the former generation.

Hence, the martial arts market just seems to open up like the food market for macdonalds. for the younger generations, there isn't 'much' idea of sticking to one's cultural heritage. There are, but not enough to affect their choice in a way which will make a big difference.

[shaolinboxer]

The korean form of Judo is called "Yudo". I don't know if this has a different meaning, or is just a pronounciation thing.

[Shaolindynasty]

I saw an article by Tat Mau Wong that said the parents in hong kong prefer that their kids learn karate or tae kwon do because of kungfu's association with the gangs.

I heard that the police in Taiwan practice tae kwon do but the articles in the police and military issue of kungfu qigong says otherwise.

I also heard that Shi Yan Ming knows Tae Kwon Do to and he's a shaolin monk. I think that is a rumor though, probally started by his article about lead leg kicking.

[shaolinboxer]

I studies with Yan Ming for a couple of years, and his kicking does not resemble TKD. Rather, he likes to use lead leg kicking like Bruce Lee.

[Shaolindynasty]

Does Yan Ming know TKD? I heard some schools at shaolin practice it for international competition.

I'm not dissing yan ming I think he is a top notch martial artist. I was just relaying what I heard and it looks like I was probally right. That it is just a rumor

[norther practitioner]

Yeah, I have heard of some northerners doing some TKD to improve on their arsanal of kicks. As far as Yan Ming I have no idea.

[Wongsifu]

i heard i heard tai ji is pretty much loved in japan, and from what i gathered its really just a concept we have of japan and china beign a place where they all know kung fu / karate , in reality its just like how ppl in other coutnries view surfing in the usa , i mean most people would belieeve that california is full of surfer dudes who drive 60's cars and hot chiks rollerblading everywhere , oh and the token nerds in the corner. I for one do believe that.

Anyhow i mean in japan its like there is the world of commercial ma competitions like pride and k-1 and the world of common people who either like their new kickboxing or tell their kids about stories of mr karate dude. And still the traditional jujitsu dojos , you never hear about any body from jj going to challenge the gyms , so im sure people dont hassle some guy who does kung fu ....

Same in china everyone believes tai ji is great but dont have a clue about it but they rant on because they are chinese they should know about it.

[red_fists]

Hi.

Yes, Japanese love CMA especially the internal Arts.

There are plenty CMA styles out here, problem is that the names using the Japanese Kanji pronounciation not the Chinese or a slightly diff name.

Yi Chuan = Tai Ki Ken
Tai Chi Chuan = Tai Kyoku Ken
Shao-Lin = Shorinshi
etc.

A lot of the Chinese "Masters" came to Japan or taiwan when they were prosecuted back home, also plenty of Japanese studied MA when they were stationed overseas during the "occupation" Years.

I think there is less JMA in China, but it should be there as Chinese would have learned from the Japanese as ell.

[Kumkuat]

yudo is indeed the korean pronouceation of the chinese characters "judo." In Chinese, it'll probably be pronounced Rou dao. Actually, isn't Shao lin in Japanese pronouceation "Sho rin"?

[JasBourne]

Given the deep cultural hatred that still exists between China and Japan, especially on the Chinese side (the Japanese were particulary brutal during their invasions and occupations), I doubt that selling karate to the Chinese will be easy.

In the course of my professional life, I've had to take "cultural understanding" seminars to help me better market to Asians, and the numbah one rule is don't try to force anything Japanese on China....

[red_fists]

Hi Jas.

On the counterside the Japanese love everything from a stronger Country and will try to incorporate a lot into their own Culture.

[taijiquan_student]

Yeah. I HIGHLY doubt karate is popular in China, because of the Japanese atrocities during the war. There is still lots of tension. On the other hand, I don't know for sure, maybe it is practiced.

[Mutant]

I read an article (same as shaolindynasty mentioned) by Tat Mau Wong that explained that in Hong Kong, kung fu was associated with the Triads (gangs) and was thought of as nasty and ultraviolent, so people would tend to study, or send their kids to learn tae kwon do or karate classes, which were generally seen as more wholesome and constructive.

As for mainland China, I think outside non-chinese martial arts are limited in availiblity, except ironically at shaolin temple, which is now a big martial arts bonanza, with schools from all over opening branches there to be asscociated with shaolin for marketing purposes or whatever.

In Japan, I think you can find and study just about any martial art you want, Chinese or otherwise.

[Jimbo]

I can't say about Mainland China, but I lived in Taiwan nearly 8 years, and in my experience, in general the Taiwan Chinese like TKD above all else. Japanese arts like Kendo, Judo, Karate, and Aikido are also highly popular. When I was there, kung fu's popularity was way, waaaaayy down.

I was told that TKD is taught in the military. It used to be kung fu, but supposedly the government had been impressed by a TKD demo many years ago and switched to TKD.

I worked part-time at a martial arts supply company in Taipei, and the boss would sometimes exercise in his parlor (in back of the shop) performing Kendo chopping strikes with a bokken (wooden sword). He knew I practiced kung fu, and often asked me, "Why don't you practice Kendo? It's more useful than kung fu." This from a Chinese man to me, a Japanese-American.

I can't cound the number of times I've overheard Chinese say about kung fu, "That's just hua chuan hsiu tuei (flowery fists embroidery legs); taekwondo is what's useful. And you always see kids in the late afternoons in Taipei walking to their TKD or karate lessons wearing their doboks/gi's. There is no stigma. But it seems most Chinese associate kung fu with gangsters or low-class people. Plus, they prefer the neat white uniform.

I suppose the feelings in Taiwan toward the Japanese is sort of a love/hate relationship. Many older Taiwanese speak fluent Japanese, sometimes much better than they speak Mandarin. But since Taiwan was a Japanese colony, some influences, such as a lot of Judo and Kendo, remain.

There was a kung fu master in Taiwan who once said, "In the near future, we Chinese are going to have to learn kung fu back from the foreigners in America, Europe and Japan. Our own people don't care about it anymore." I couldn't say whether the situation is that dire there, but I think his words spoke volumes about the apparent apathy of most Chinese towards kung fu training.

PS: The only thing "Chinese" that seemed to match TKD's popularity (or exceed it, among adults) was the bizarre types of qigong that became popular in the late '80s/early '90s.

Jim

[CD Lee]

Interesting post from another thread. My apologies is this seems rude, but the content was just exactly what this thread was talking about. I think the guy speaking here is from Hong Kong. To anwer, I think every first hand witness in China has confirmed that Karate and TKD are very popular there, which surprises me a lot.



As a Chinese,I really feel a bit sorry,
sorry for Chinese and Chinese traditional Martial art.I am a Xingyi practitioner for a half of year.
In my feeling,my race,Chinese,for ourselves ,
don't treasure our own CULTURE, especially on TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ART indeed,most of the people have no interest on it as they just simply think that it is rubblish and useless,just for DEMONSTRATION.Most people go to learn Muay Thai, TKD,Karate,Arkido,Judo,free fight,but not ours TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ART.
I have couples of friend who love it,of course,including me.
But what I want to tell is MOST guy ignore it,
this situation is common in Hongkong youngsters I think.

And I discovered that,and quite surprise that, at the time when we are losing our own culture on TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ART,
friends from others countries treasure it!
I know many of foreign friends,like all of you,
is so emphasise to learn it,train it,and taste it
SERIUOSLY and HARDLY!
The atitude is worth us the learn!
I think I must train more hard to keep our own culture too!

[JasBourne]

In my feeling,my race,Chinese,for ourselves , don't treasure our own CULTURE, especially on TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ART indeed,most of the people have no interest on it as they just simply think that it is rubblish and useless

Can I just say to the entire country of China: Well, NO DUH FELLAS. Wasn't that the whole point of the "Cultural Revolution", to get rid of "tradition"? Don't be throwing away your treasures then complaining that you're poor. :)

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, sure Jas, but it's hardly fair to blame all 2 billion Chinese for the actions of Madame Mao, is it?

[Merryprankster]

I've oft heard it quoted that people get the government they deserve...

I also might remind you that the cultural revolution couldn't have happenned without hordes of people destroying traditional knowledge and killing or incarcerating the intelligensia.

So, no, I don't think it was all Mao's fault.

[Chang Style Novice]

Not all, of course. But it only takes a few troublemakers to make a hell of a lot of trouble, especially in a dictatorship.

[Jimbo]

But the Cultural Revolution does not explain the almost total apathy towards kung fu in non-Communits Chinese countries. I'm certain that even if the Cultural Revolution hadn't occurred, that kung fu's popularity would still lag far behind non-Chinese martial arts in such places.

You also hear many Chinese say, "Why waste time with kung fu? It doesn't earn you any money." Then they praise TKD or karate, as if spending time on them would be any more profitable. Worse yet, I observed more people interested in badminton in Taiwan than in kung fu.

It seems like only in the old Bruce Lee or kung fu movies will you see Chinese upholding the name of kung fu against the "evil foreign martial arts." The reality contradicts that. Maybe they now prefer the more systematic teaching approaches of TKD, karate, aikido, etc. Then if you ask them about why they would choose a Korean (or Japanese) MA over their own, they will pull out that tired old routine of "TKD and karate both originated in China anyway, so it's Chinese." I don't agree. The roots of both arts originated in China, but, for example, the karate that has evolved on mainland Japan has become uniquely Japanese and therefore can no longer be called Chinese MA. Just like the Chinese do not call their arts Indian martial arts.

Jim

[red_fists]

Hi Jimbo.

When you make statement about CHina and their view of CMA.
You can replace China with Japan,etc. and Chinese with Japanese,etc.

Most Asian nations now see their own MA as part of History and something that a few nutcases practice.

AS for studying Arts from another nation, it is a sign of the times. The Grass always looks greener on the other side, but today People got an Option to sample it.

[Shaolindynasty]

"Most Asian nations now see their own MA as part of History and something that a few nutcases practice."

This goes everywhere. You don't see people of european decent practicing their medevil martial arts that much. My Great Grandparents came from Greece but I don't practice pankration. As easy as communication has become every nation has influence from others. I don't see it as a great tragedy, cureent times have allowed me to study kungfu so I am greatful.

[red_fists]

Yep,

I should also be training in medieval Broadsword and the like.

But rather go further back, when my Ancestors stopped the Romans coming north, or newer when we stopped the Turks from invading Europe.

Instead I hit both Ears with Tiger Paw hands and the like.

[dre_doggX]

" Why do you do Kungfu, Kendo is more useful" How on EARTH IS TIPTOEING OVERLARGE CHOPSTICKS BETTER.

I GET THIS **** FROM ONE OF MY KOREAN FRIENDS WHO PREFER JUDO.
He claims its the "Ultimate Martial art " cause it uses someone strenght against them. I told him a million styles of kungfu including Tai chi chaun and Ba Gua Zhang do this, and that Judo is merely what you get when you modifiy Ju-jutsu but he still comes with that any, why judo?
WHY CAUSE ITS CULTURLY ACCEPTABLE.

Its said but its true, in Asia culture is the thing. but in America as also we just want the best, no matter where it comes from.

Yip Man must be kicking in his grave right now. for not teaching every student the full version of his art.

What good is Kungfu or Martial arts in general if its in a Continent were no one cares about it.

Iam sorry maybe I missread but KENDO more USEFUL then KUNGFU

not inm a fight.

[JasBourne]

KENDO more USEFUL then KUNGFU

Yeah, you're right. Why am I wasting my time training my body to take on psycho rapists twice my size with my bare hands, when I could be learning something useful, like becoming one of those cool Benihana guys.

I admit, I only carry my sword in public for show (hangs head).

;)


gung hay fat choy!

[dre_doggX]

you said it.

[MIKSANSOO]

When I took chinese as a language course a few semisters ago. the teacher of course was an old chinese man (i would say maybe his late 70's). he didn't like the japanese because according to him they stole chinese culture. he used to tell us about him as a kid during the occupation of japanese. the funny thing is we had japanese students in the class and when he would talk about it he would look at the japanese students with a firey glaze. but he loved kung fu though.

[Jimbo]

Yup, my boss in Taiwan used to tell me Kendo was more useful than kung fu, why don't I learn it instead?

As far as the Chinese language teacher who hated Japanese people, well that's his problem, regardless what happened 60 years ago. He's glaring at I bet a bunch of young people who had nothing to do with the occupation.

Hey, I'm Japanese but I prefer kung fu. I still respect Japanese martial arts, but kung fu feels more natural for me.

Jim