Disturbing article...Flight attendant self-defense training...

[Gargoyle again]

Snipped from an article in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 2/8/02.

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"Attendants left as last line of defense"
Author: Ken Kaye

"....Airlines are weighing options. American, for instance, is considering hiring International Protective Services of Hollywood to train about 20 American security people in self-defense. They, in turn, would train thousands of flight attendants who could take the course on a voluntary basis.


As it is, dozens of flight attendants and pilots already have taken the four-hour course, paying the $60 fee out of their own pockets, said Walter Philbrick, president of International Protective Services.


The course covers everything from dealing with an abusive air-rage passenger to subduing a terrorist-hijacker, he said.


For instance, if someone becomes combative, students are taught to grab a pressure point on the shoulder; if done properly, that will bring a person to his knees.


If an assailant has a knife, a student is taught to grab a jacket and wrap it around his or her arm to prevent getting cut. If the attacker has a revolver, a student would attempt to grab the cylinder so the gun can't fire.


Otherwise, Philbrick, 50, a former police SWAT team leader and world judo champion, teaches flight attendants to throw a soda can at a would-be hijacker and use beverage carts to block access to the ****pit.

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Now for my own opinion on this article...

I think it is hideously inadequate and will give a false sense of confidence to airline crews. A four hour course? Are we really supposed to believe a 100 pound flight attendant can subdue someone with a "pressure point on the shoulder"? I've been doing martial arts for 5 years now and would never consider any of these methods as worthwile. Risky as hell. These sound like defense techniques taken straight from the back cover of a comic book. It is shameful that this Walter Philbrick (world judo champ? anyone know who he is?) would be peddling crap such as this to the airline employees under the guise of self-defense and anti-terrorism :mad:

Thoughts? I know you've got 'em ;)

[Gargoyle again]

Hee hee, apparantly c0ckpit is a dirty word? Whooda thunkit? ;)

[Tigerstyle]

I think the soda can and beverage cart tactics are good ideas. As far as the rest of it? :confused: :rolleyes:

[Ryu]

To be perfectly honest, I think people forget how intimidating and helpless it feels to come face to face with an armed terrorist.
All their training doesn't mean their minds won't freeze up.

Ryu

[Merryprankster]

Even scarier--I've SEEN clips on tv of what is offered to delta.

I saw a lot of "long" techniques and not enough "short" stuff that will be far more likely and useful in the confines of an airplane.

[Tigerstyle]

"If an assailant has a knife, a student is taught to grab a jacket and wrap it around his or her arm to prevent getting cut."

Did that idea come from 80's movies and TV shows?

[Highlander]

Where are they holding the training? If it isn't on a fully loaded plane that is in flight, then it's worthless. (Not saying that it is worth that much to begin with).

[qeySuS]

Well they forget taht if someone is in a "Rage" of some sort or is mentally disturbed i doubt pressure points will work on them.

[JasBourne]

They should make wingchun and grappling proficiency mandatory for all flight attendants.

Phear ur stew@rd3$$ - "I said, fasten your safety belt!" *wham*

:D

[rubthebuddha]

that's utter crap. i'm not confident i could ruin said terrorist, much less two or three or more of them, and i've been doing MA for much of my life (WT the past few, in which the close-quarter stuff just might come in handy on a plane). giving a flight attendant a four-hour crash course is like giving them a death wish.

"really, of course a few hours of lecture and twenty minutes of practice will allow you to defend yourself against a large, aggressive terrorist who has been training for several years on how to kill people. really, it will!"

****.

[Lode Runner]

"For instance, if someone becomes combative, students are taught to grab a pressure point on the shoulder; if done properly, that will bring a person to his knees."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

they're teaching them the Vulcan nerve pinch?! Wtf? Like the terrorist will be in so much pain he won't even have the strength to slap your arm away.

Ok so I'll give 'em 10 out of 10 for style, but minus several million for good thinking.

Actually, there's really no need for any of this. Training was never the problem... it was mindset. Now people know that resistance is everything. Unless the terrorists are MA gods that can fight off dozens of passengers simultaneously in severely cramped conditions, there's no way they'll ever take control of another airplane ever again. They might crash it, but realistically speaking there's no way to counter that threat with MA (bombs are too easy to make and despite what that one moron recently tried to pull with his sock-bomb routine, one can simply hide in the bathroom to assemble it and set it off.)

[Black Jack]

I did not read the article, a lot of it sounds like crap, but here are a few points from me.

The soda can idea is not bad, projectiles can buy you some room in a knife based situation, Sayoc Kali stresses projectiles, it could keep them at a distance as you try to get to a better position.

The jacket around the arm defense can be rendered useless if you are facing a well-made fighting blade, a Ka-Bar, Busse, Cold Steel, Sypderco, Emerson, Kukri, and so on and so on.

A quailty blade will slice through it like butter.

The jacket defense only has some merit if you are facing off against a "cheapo" blade, but even then I would rather use the jaket to whip and fail at the attacker and the attackers weapon, while keeping one free hand open.

[Tae Li]

I also think that a four hour training course could not possibly be that effective...I mean who are they kidding? this isnt the movies, and indeed when you come face to face with something as horific as a terrorist who is very likely to have a semi-automatic pointing towards your head, it is very possible to lose control of your bodily functions not to mention your mental focus.

But then again, sometimes when your mind and body are under so much pressure but even more so, fear, it gains miracilous power and skill you would never have imagined you had. its very possible but it all depends on that person.

understand?

Tae Li;)

[rubthebuddha]

and we're going to see that from a mighty flight attendant, who will dispatch a trained killer with nothing but personal sacrifice in mind with the greatest of ease.

again, ****.

either get trained u.s. marshalls back on planes, or give it up, because four hours of training is only going to give people the misplaced confidence that's going to do nothing but have them be the first person to die because they were the first person to step up.

[Royal Dragon]

why don't wee all start contacting airlines and ask permission to com in and conduct traing exerciese on planes? we culd tell them wer are creating a program for the airline attendant that we plan on offerening in the future. This give us time experiane and oppetunity to do it right, and makes good polotics for reqruiting students later down the road.

Just a thought, Royal Dragon

[Water Dragon]

You guys are so off the mark.

What is obviously needed here is an intensive, weekend workshop in Lin Kong Jin!

[MonkeySlap Too]

I have perfected my Lin Kong Jin to the point where I can make you move without even being near you.

See?

Made you move.

[Royal Dragon]

Lets start teaching REAL selfdefence to the AIRLINES. I bet "I" could sell it to them!!!!

I would need some local hard core Psyco's to help out though.

Frist we get a group together here, then we get the aaaaaaaair lines to let us "Practe" on the planes for th purpose of offerming a course later, then we OFFER THE COURSE!!!

$80 an hour!! two instructors X 3 classe an hour each day.

We get a network of a dozen guys or so together, and we could all quit our jobs and practice for the rest of our lives!!!!

Think about it, we could wear black "Swat" outfits and look real tough when we teach and everything.

Infact, I'm going to put together a telemarketing campange together next week to contact all the airlines so anyone interested in this project E-Mail me at Royaldragon@netzero.net.

Heck, we could start a copany specifically for training Airline security!!!!!! (Royal starry eyed and dazed thinking of his future mansion and Ferrari and huge Kung Fu school in the middle of O'Hare Airport)

(Any Shui Chiao or grapplelers with short hand fighting skill out there?)

RD

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

not only did it not help them at all, but i bet im not the only one who thinks these poor fu ckers are actually worse off if something happens because of that 4 hour joke.

[Royal Dragon]

We do a 4 hour seminar as an INTRODUCTION to real selfdefense. During the seminar, we explain that everything we teach them WILL be useless unless they persue a continual course, which WE provide.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im not missing your point. i'm just saying that the people who had done the 4 hour training that was not conducted by yourself are worse off now. i feel that their lives are more in danger now than before that ridiculous waste of sixty bucks.

[Mr. Nemo]

"If an assailant has a knife, a student is taught to grab a jacket and wrap it around his or her arm to prevent getting cut."

This technique has been around for a while, and is, as far as I know, is recognized as legit. Wu-tan's uniforms are designed to be taken off easily so you can wrap them around your lead arm in the case of an opponent with a knife.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i was always under the impression that you just consider your arms fu cked and guard your throat and center long enough to kill him or run if you can. a gash accross my forearm cut to the bone might not kill me and hopefully it could give me the chance to kill the fu cker coming at me with a knife.

[hughes]

This might sound daft, but lets say its a terrorist with a knife and no gun, you could always communicate with the people around you and get like 6 of you to charge at him full speed, he might get a cut in but he wont be getting up after that.

[neptunesfall]

i don't find the fact that they're learning self defense to be disturbing.
in situations of 'air rage' or just flat out psychotic passengers, simple self defense techniques would be a fine thing to know. as for a terrorist seige, well....let's look at it like this, a terrorist would most likely want to; hold the entire plane hostage or kill everyone. in that situation - against someone who more than likely is willing to die, someone who may have firearms, simple self defense serves almost no role. it turns to kill or be killed. this is the arena of the air marshalls and soldiers even. these are the people that have trained for this and they should be trained/training harder. these are the people that should be in more proficient numbers on flights.
as for the concern of payroll for the air marshalls, most airlines claim it's too expensive to have a marshall on every flight. i believe this is a crock of sh*t. it would cost a few hundred dollars at most for 1 air marshall per flight. how much is the profit take on 1 commercial flight? what is the yearly profit of a commercial airline?
"Federal Air Marshall Program costs for Fiscal Years (FY) 1994 and 1995 were
$1.3 million and $1.2 million, respectively, and include FAM Program
office staff salaries and overtime; travel (management staff and FAM
cadre travel); transportation; services; supplies; and equipment. "
[http://www.oig.dot.gov/show_txt.php?id=362]

[myosimka]

Long ago, before I studied MA, when my sole weapons were a high tolerance for pain, sadism, hairtrigger temper and refusal to lay down and die, I used this one to pretty good effect. My first year of my college it was my job to keep our 260lb borderline alcoholic friend in line. I peaked the scales at 175 at the time. My technique of choice was two fingers hooked inside the clavicle just below the levator scapulae. Press down hard. This invariable worked. It didn't knock him out. It just got him to sit down suddenly and ***** alot. And most importantly it didn't even leave a mark. As we have seen in the past months since 9/11, flight attendants deal with an awful lot of unruly people that aren't terrorists. Sometimes planting a drunk back in his seat without even a mark is a handy thing, especially in this litigeous society.

That being said, any short term selfdefense course not combined with a long term regimen of training is pretty much worthless.

[Merryprankster]

Hee-hee! I used to grab the clavicle when I wrestled. Great hook!

[JasBourne]

My favorite in college was the trachea grip. Marvelous for fending off drunken, overly amorous dates.

Maybe we should just teach all the flight attendants Mooney's Empty Force (tm), then they could subdue a terrorist and still pour drinks...