San shou origins ???

[Wongsifu]

Ive been trying to trace the origins of san shou and basically i cant , all i seem to find is that it was developed in the 60's when all the ""great kung fu masters"" got together and developed a safe way or sport version of kung fu sparring.

Does anyone have any real idea, I cant help but feel that san shou is like a big con of muay thai with some shuai jiao in it.

Even the national san shou equipment of china is like muay thai stuff, oh so are the shorts.
Anyone know about how it was when san shou first came about.

Also i cant help but think about how my teacher described bruce lee as being a pioneer for the chinese to look up to.
for the chines to become more modern in their martial arts, its as if the chinese have evolved san shou on the basis of how bruce lee moved in his films. I dunno???

[ShaolinTiger00]

go to www.sanshou.org and click on "the sport" then click on "what is sanshou ?" you will find your answer.

thai shorts? What do you expect us to wear, Knickers? hey you find me some other loose shorts that won't get caught on my thigh when I kick and I'll wear them too.

a con of muay thai? Not at all. very different strategies and strengths.

[Wongsifu]

THanks for the link but its not really what i was looking for i wanted some info more specifically on san shou - pre america

it dating back to the 60 makes it old enough to have a history im looking for that history of 40 years ago champions how it was run etc etc.

About the shorts , it could have been any type of uniform , like trad gonfu uniforms or just long baggy trousers, no top, i mean look at karate uniforms they are distinct so are trad gong fu uniforms, kickboxing uniforms track-suit bottoms are different.

I dunno just being really curious

[ShaolinTiger00]

THanks for the link but its not really what i was looking for i wanted some info more specifically on san shou - pre america

pre america? did you read the article?

From the website:





In 1924, the Guomindang (Chinese Nationalist Party) established the Whampoa Military Academy in Guangdong (Canton) province, Southern China in order to train the party’s leadership and create a modern military force. Having formed a strategic alliance with the Soviet Union in January 1923, the academy utilized Soviet methods of establishing party discipline, political indoctrination and training of military personnel. As Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, leader of the Guomindang said in 1923 "Since we wish to learn their (the Soviet Union’s) methods, I have asked (Soviet advisor) Mr. (Michael) Borodin to be director of training of our Party." More Soviet advisors arrived in China in 1924, particularly to assist in military training. Of course, the military training is what is of significance to San Shou.

During the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905), Russian forces had experienced heavy losses in close quarters combat with the Japanese. As a result of these losses, several movements sprung up in Russia concerned with developing better methods of training the military for close quarters combat (CQC). These movements were later unified and the project made official under the leadership of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) upon their assumption of power in 1917. The result of this project is what is today known as Sambo.

While Sambo was designed to prepare Soviet military and national security forces for real CQC including the use of and defense against bladed weapons and firearms, its creators also felt that a sport form which could be safely practiced on a regular basis was an essential part of the program. Why was a sporting adaptation considered essential to the training?

The ability to use your methods in a real situation is dependent upon a number of factors. First, one must have the tools, offensive and defensive, to get the job done. This is the importance of offering a complete training program under the guidance of a skilled coach. However, the rest of the variables are less obvious but no less important.

Does one have the ability to use these techniques upon an opponent who is knowledgeable of the techniques, resisting them and also attempting to launch their own attack? This requires not only perfecting the technique but developing your sense of space and range, the ability to see openings, reaction time and personal strategy. Include into this equation the possibility that the opponent may be using techniques and strategies different than your own.

Furthermore, does one have both the physical and mental condition to engage in a struggle such as this? Does one have the strength, endurance, flexibility? The determination? Will they fall apart under the stress and adrenaline rush, freeze and forget everything they have learned? It has certainly happened in the past to many practitioners. Remember, if you have not been hit or thrown full power (slamming into the ground) you don’ know how you will react to conditions such as these.

A boxer has been punched so many times that he no longer freezes when a blow connects. A wrestler or Judo fighter has been thrown to the ground many times and is accustomed to it. These three individuals are also used to exchange, working with an opponent who is both defending and attacking. They are also used to performing under high stress conditions, with large audiences and for extended periods of time. They benefit from experience gained by competition, i.e. sporting adaptations of what were once strictly combat/self-defense methods. Thus, combat sports allow the student to develop the "attributes" of a warrior, including the appropriate mental attitude, "ruthlessness".

Under the tutelage of Soviet advisors, the Chinese endeavored to create a similar method of training their military forces in CQC. In the case of the Chinese, who lacked an industrial base and access to most modern warfare technology, this program seemed perhaps even more important than in the Russian case. The Whampoa military instructors studied the existing Chinese martial arts traditions and created San Shou. The military San Shou curriculum, designed to prepare military personnel for CQC, addressed what the Chinese had long considered the four basic martial arts skills;


"Da" (Striking) use of fist, open hand, elbow, fingers, head

"Ti" (Kicking) kicking, sweeping, kneeing, stomping

"Shuai" (Throw) wrestling, throwing, takedowns

"Na" (Seizing) joint locks and chokes, i.e. submissions

In establishing a sport version of San Shou, which could be practiced in relative safety on the frequent basis necessary for the development of the basic skills and attributes, the decision was made to use a kickboxing like format. Whether you are verbally harassed, a strike or kick is thrown, you are grabbed or threatened with a weapon, most self-defense situations are initiated while you are standing. Furthermore, being on the ground for any length of time is not advisable both because you are more vulnerable to attack and because the surface itself may present numerous dangers. For these reasons, you should always concentrate on remaining standing and the primary course of study in San Shou addresses the essential elements of a standing fight.


Amateur San Shou
Sport San Shou utilizes striking, kicking and wrestling but not "submission" ("Na") and/or ground grappling. Originally, elbows and knees were utilized in inter-military San Shou competition but they have been removed from the international sport version which was established in 1991 with the first world championships.



Fighting in traditional uniforms? Are you serious?? This is 2002 and I'm not wearing that ridiculous costume to fight in. Its a modern "sport" aspect and I'm wearing modern clothes to compete.

[Wongsifu]

thanks for the info, I do remember a while back before i knew about san shou as a modern sport i had first come in contact with it being called the martial arts of the chinese military.

but im looking more for the solid obvious transformation.

For example you can pin point modern "kickboxing" from people like chuck norris and others who developed point karate which was then called kickboxing as the karate federations didnt agree to it being called karate any more.....

IF you get what i mean.

Also would i be wrong in saying the first national chinese "wushu" etc sport events that were held were in the 70's with jet li ? before this if there was no standardisation of sport where was san shou ?


Im not trying to be a pain im just curious.