Reason for other forms in WC

[CanadianBadAss]

I mentioned this in another post, but I'd like to hear some other peoples opinions on the subject...
Many branches of WC have the students practice forms that can be applied directly to fighting situations, unlike the SLT and other 2 forms. I was told by my sifu that these forms were made because students wanted to see results faster, and didn't want spend along time on SLT before they could start applying their WC to actual fighting situations.
So I think that eventually the student would become more intrested in training and drilling the fighting techniques and combos then doing the real form, of course they were still taught the principles centerline, forword intent and what not. But those principles are just theory unless you train the SLT so that they become a part of you. So eventually you would end up with a WC system that is very external, all about techniques, they talk about WC theory, but thats all it is, theory.

Well... I think i strayed from my topic a bit...

[edward]

what would happen if you watched only the first half of empire strikes back... you wouldn't know the whole story right..

well most who study wing chun... only learn the 1st chapter of slt...... thus, when it seems like motions don't make its because students didn't stay long enough to find the entire story behind it....

thus, just like bruce... he changed his wing chun coz he only learned up to 1st form.. he thought forms were useless, if anything bruce probably just learned motions of SLT.. and never understood the details of what made slt so important...

thus i'd venture to say, modifcation comes about when you don't stay for the whole class

[CanadianBadAss]

Now that i think of it this thread is kinda dumb, i basically went on a nonsensical rant... and the question i wanted to ask isn't very clear, and will probly get over looked because of the stuff that i think is gonna **** people off...

[S.Teebas]

...these forms were made because students wanted to see results faster, and didn't want spend along time on SLT before they could start applying their WC to actual fighting situations.

Interesting. Because when you think about WC, it being a very simple system ie the moves in it are not nearly as PHYSICALLY demanding such as other systems (eg tae-kwan-do, karate etc...)
But it is the QUALITY of the moves we do that make the system effective. Anyone can do a bong, anyone can make a tan...but level of quality that these are...is what makes the difference in WC. Thats what sets the masters apart from the students.

Although we all do the same moves, the guys who are better are the ones who put time into their forms and pefect the basics to a mind bogaling level!

This is where i think Wc is such an advanced system. I mean, if you look at the other arts and see how they progress. In the way that first you need to be able to even DO the moves (eg spinning back kick) it takes a long time to even be cordinated enough to perform such an acrobatic manover. Then once the move can be done...then, and only then can you even think about power generation (which is what I believe the forms teach us).

WC has a a-head start i believe. Because the moves are so intrictically 'SIMPLE' we can begin the process of powergeneration from day one! This in my mind is a great head start IF you have the patience to stick to this type of thinking/attude. (Isnt that what we are all after anyway....a way to generate enormours amounts of power effortlessly?)

In every art you will reach the stage where you know the moves and they become very eacy to perfom/second nature. But to get any real power of them you need to put time into it. Study, and THINK about it. I think alot of people drop of of the WC seen bacause they dont see Wc for it really is (A da^mn well though out system!)


So eventually you would end up with a WC system that is very external, all about techniques, they talk about WC theory, but thats all it is, theory.

Good point CanadianBadAss! I believe that the power in WC comes from the ability to merge theory with actuality!

[JasBourne]

Anyone who spends time "drilling the fighting techniques and combos" instead of working to integrate the principles embodied in the 3 forms is not learning WC. I don't know WHAT they are learning, but it won't be WC.

Y'know, I have to smirk in an evil, childish way when I hear about stuff like this, or like in that 'how to defeat a wing chunner' thread. Somewhere in the back of my immature mind, I'm glad that some people are learning garbage and thinking they know kungfu, because when I go up against them, I know I can WHOMP their butt easy! :p

[Jeff Liboiron]

Originally posted by JasBourne
Anyone who spends time "drilling the fighting techniques and combos" instead of working to integrate the principles embodied in the 3 forms is not learning WC. I don't know WHAT they are learning, but it won't be WC.



Define "fighting techinques"

[JasBourne]

Define "fighting techinques"
Ya, ok. In this instance, it would be "if he does this then you do that" type choreography. Wing Chun doesn't have "fighting drills" or katas - we have principles that we practice through training drills.


My comment was in direct response to the statement: "Many branches of WC have the students practice forms that can be applied directly to fighting situations". No one in their right mind would ever use, say, a dan chi sao drill as an actual fighting technique. We might use the principles involved, but the actual drill?? Not unless your opponent has agreed beforehand to be a stooge and stand still for you :D

[Zhuge Liang]

Hi ed,

just wanted to make a Bruce Lee correction for you yet again...

" thus, just like bruce... he changed his wing chun coz he only learned up to 1st form.. "

I'm pretty sure that he at least finished Chum Kiu. By most accounts, he had been studying for at least 2 years, and both WSL and William Cheung verified that he trained long and and hard. In William Cheung himself said that many of the seniors were upset with him because he started to surpass them.

Ok, so we know that Bruce trained hard for at least 2 years. We know that he did poon sau. We know that he did gou sau. By these three points alone, I would say that he at least got to Chum Kiu.

Whether or not he understood Wing Chun, I'm not going to argue. I'm not even going to argue whether or not he was a good fighter. Critisize him if you want, just make sure you have something legitamate to critisize him about.

Zhuge Liang

[Jeff Liboiron]

alright Jas, i see what your talkin about now :)