Question for Ehlana

[Sihing73]

Hello Ehlana,

I noticed your profile shows you do Bagua. I have seen some of the footwork of Park Bok Nam's Pakua/Bagua and can see some similarities to some Wing Chun footwork I have been exposed to. Am I correct in assuming, from your profile, that you are affiliated with John Painter?? It would be interesting to compare some of the different approaches to various situations aand compare notes. For example, I believe that Dr. Painter has a method of dealing with a two hand grab which incorporates a waist rotation with one hand rising and one going downward. This could be compared to a Tok Sau and Kou Sau with a stance turn in Wing Chun. Pretty hard to describe in this medium but if you are familar with the technique perhaps you could expound on it to increase my understanding. It would be nice to compare some of the body mechanics and principles found within both arts.

Peace,

Dave

[Ehlana]

...and my profile also says I'm a beginner and sadly that is not a sign of humility: I really AM a beginner.

So with my limited understanding I will tell you what I think is your question, and what I think MIGHT be the answer, but the truth is that I don't know the answer because I do not yet do applications (sparring). Once I have achieved a certain level of skill then I will be able to learn applications but my root, my 'ba' step, my walking, turns, circle walking, posture, breathing, etc. have to be up to par and I will have to learn to be more sensitive as well first.

In terms of what approaches are used to deal with opponents, there is no one response; we are taught the principles and expected to apply them in a given situation - at times we are shown examples of how you might deal with a situation, but even then it is not the only possible response.

So, what I think from your posting that you are asking, is how to deal with someone grabbing your (arm?) with two hands. This would really depend on where you are in relation to them to begin with (as you say, pretty hard to describe in this forum). We also don't use the terminology of 'waist rotation' because we actually turn at the hips and the terminology can be confusing (especially to beginners like me). As far as I can tell (from my perspective) we don't train how to deal with specific situations but use principles such as the 'ridge pole' and 'get off the line and go for the spine' meaning (in this order) - that you keep your body alignment straight (this gets harder to describe the more I write!). The other principle I quoted is that let's say in your example the bloke is coming directly at me and grabbing my arm. "Get off the line" is essentially an instruction to step out of his path (either into him or away from him but not in the same line as him) and "go for the spine" is how we train to take advantage of the opponent's own movement. Wow I hate being a beginner; I've never tried to explain this to someone. There are many other principles (such as "ball and wedge") and we are taught that if we learn to apply the principles, that is the groundwork we need in order to learn to deal with an attacker.

In terms of hand position once again it will all depend on the actual encounter. The hand/arm position will be unique to the circumstances - you could for example also use a technique of first having both arms going up (perhaps catching opponent under one of his arms with untrapped arm) then both going down while incorporating a turn and if he continues to hold on then he may fall down.

Or a completely different approach we have 'played with' (once again not yet actual sparring at my level) is something called the 'brain blink'. With your free arm touch or push your attacker somewhere else and in that instant where his attention is not focussed on holding your arm, it is quite easy to extract yourself.

Sorry Dave if my answer is a bit disjointed. I hope with more learning on my part (a year or two more?) I can contribute more and give a better answer. For now, this is the best I can do.

Cheers

Sandy T.

[Sihing73]

Hi Sandy,

No problem, sorry if I appeared to be putting you "on the spot" not my intention. I think that in Wing Chun you will find we also stress principles rather than "techniques". Our resposne is actually dictated by what the opponent gives us. As I recently explained in a class; it is the opponent who sets him or herself up for whatever technique happens in response to the energy they give us.

I admit to my curiousity being peaked by something I saw in one of Dr. Painters tapes. I could see the application from a Wing Chunpersepective and thought it was pretty itneresting. I also agree that one should not turn from the waist but use the hips to initiate the movement.

In any event, I appoligize if I put you on the spot. I may look up one of Dr. Painters students in my area and see how things compare. I once worked out with a student of C.C. Chen and found the experieincing interesting and also somewhat enlightening.

As to being a beginner I think that once we consider ourselves to no longer be beginners we run the risk of becoming tunnel blind and may no longer see some things. In other words our "ego" or sense of accomplishment can get in the way. I have never met a truly accomplished martial artist that did not consider themselves as having much more to learn. Anyone claiming otherwise is, IMHO, to be avoided. In a sense we are all and always will be beginners in some sense or fashion. I often go back to the basics and realize just how much I missed the first time around.

In any event welcome once again.

Peace,

Dave