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Lode Runner
02-10-2002, 08:58 PM
I plan on seeing my podiatrist soon to see if he can tell me anything useful, but it occurred to me that other people might have had to deal with this same problem before me.

In a nutshell, without my orthodics (little custom-made hard plastic thingies I put in my shoes so my feet hit the ground properly) my balance completely sucks. I tried wearing my orthodics in the shoes I was issued but the sole of the shoe was so thin that it caused it to press up against my foot rather painfully. My balance improved dramatically but the pain made concentrating all but impossible. I then tried using my orthotics in my tennis shoes and that seemed to work a little better, although I'm not quite as stable and my feet still hurt somewhat (I guess it's because you're weight is often on just one foot.) It's not a bad solution, but it's far from perfect (plus I was chastised a little by my Sifu for wearing these rather beat-up sneakers in class.)

I don't think that my having flat feet will ruin my TC training, but I do think that it will hinder it significantly. Therefore, I'd really like to know if there are any tricks out there... be they something else I could put in my shoe or some way I could modify the forms themselves.

Nexus
02-10-2002, 09:51 PM
I think if you give it a year or two, you will see that what appears to be a hinderance in the beginning usually works itself out with patience and practice. I've had a few of my own obstacles to overcome in my training, as well as almost all practitioners have to deal with. The best source is to talk with your teacher who will give you what you need to know.

wufupaul
02-10-2002, 10:19 PM
Man, Lode, you should see my feet, flat as a board! My feet never really hurt very much when I practiced tai chi, because of the stance. Weight in the heels, mostly in the back one, the edge of the foot touching, and the ball of the foot touching. If you make that triangle, and your toes lightly grip the floor, then it doesn't matter if you have high arches or no arches, honestly.

Sam Wiley
02-11-2002, 12:20 AM
Lode Runner,
I have flat feet, too. So flat that the entire sole of my foot touches the floor. I don't have problems with my feet while practicing. If you scrunch your toes under a bit, as if gripping the ground, then the correct portions of your foot touch the ground, the heel, the outside edge, and the ball of the foot. And that way, as Wufupaul put it, it doesn't matter if you are flatfooted or not.

Personally, I cannot wear inserts like what you're talking about.I end up with severe pain and cramping in my feet, legs and back. I can't even wear shoes with sturdy arches.

My advice would be to practice barefoot, at least at home. At school, I am sure if you explained to your teacher the reason you don't wear the shoes you were issued, he'll be accomodating.

And hey, if you think you've got problems with your feet, not only are mine flat, but my toes on one foot are webbed (but not on the other) and that foot is an entire inch shorter than the normal one. I can't even curl those toes under to "grip" the ground. Imagine that one of your feet is shorter than the other, and then imagine trying to figure out how deep your stance should be based on whether your knees extend beyond your toes. I had to develop my own little system to determine correct foot placement for qigong and forms. And as if that weren't bad enough, I had a really bad ear infection as a child that severely damaged my inner ears, so my balance is terrible. Ah, God I'm pitiful.

Kaitain(UK)
02-11-2002, 01:45 AM
I've got flat feet too :)

I used to blame it for my bad balance - with time I realised that I just needed to correct my posture. Biggest thing that helped me was looking straight ahead - suddenly I wasn't wobbling so much.

Now I don't dread the kicking section of the form

One other tip - take your time, especially in the kicking section. If I'm rushing or impatient then I still wobble - if I actually slow down and make certain that I'm balanced right before I start to rise up into the kick then I'm solid.

Flat feet doesn't mean you can't balance - just that you have a lot less room for error. QiGong really helps as well.

crumble
02-11-2002, 07:01 AM
(Being able to wear my orthotics was one of the reasons I tried tai chi/CMA in the first place. You can wear shoes!)

I also wear orthotics. I had flat feet for years and it was no big deal (I thought, but I was wrong) but then I started getting a pinching pain on the front part of my ankle. It got so bad I could hardly walk. Basically, when the join/arch collapses, it can increase wear on the side of your ankle joints and knees. (The load isn't spread evenly over the entire surface.)

I've been wearing the orthotics over about 5 years. They are the kind that were made for me, and I go in every 6 months/year to get the arch increased a bit. It's kinda like orthodontics/braces for feet.

I am able to balance SOOOO much better with these things, it's just amazing. That said, it did take a while for my feet/muscles/tendons to adjust to the new arch. So you still need to put practice time in, but you're working with a much more stable structure. (And like people mentioned, if you aren't in pain, wearing orthotic will intially give you pain! But in my case, I was already in pain.)

And it has side effects I never expected. One of the effects of flat feet is that your feet splay outward (duck footed). So with the orthotics all of a sudden I could ski with my skis parallel. No problem. I used to think that people who could ski well were freaking geniuses.

I'm very pro-orthotics because, even if you weren't in major pain like I was, it helps re align the joints of the knee-heel-toe, which has many benefits, including balance, coordination, and delivering power when punching.

Another thing: unless you are young and have time for your feet to correct themselves. Once you start wearing orthotics, you pretty much always have to. But if you use orthotics when you're young, your alignment can be corrected as a child and you won't need to wear them as an adult!

-crumble

Repulsive Monkey
02-11-2002, 08:31 AM
The thing is flat feet aren't really an obstacle to Taiji as in fact the arches of one's feet will naturally drop in your training over the years to allow more of the foot to meet the earth anyway. Flatter feet is also a plus point because it allows for better contact with K1, Yung Chuan (Bubbling Well) of the flat of the foot just behind the ball of the foot to stimulate ones Kidney strength, which is always gonna be a good thing.

Lode Runner
02-11-2002, 03:17 PM
Wow. Thanks all for the replies.

About orthodics vs. no orthodics, before I figure this one out I'll first visit the podiatrist (I think my feet may have grown *slightly* since my last checkup... 4+ years ago) then I'll do something I should've thought of before; I'll practise the TC forms with shoes, with shoes and orthodics, and barefoot all in one setting and figure out definitively what works best. I don't have a lot of pain without the orthodics but I find that it's much harder to walk without my feet splayed outwards and I even occasionally roll on the sides on my feet without meaning to (which, needless to say, completely f**ks up my balance.)

CD Lee
02-11-2002, 09:44 PM
I have very flat feet as well. I used to race 5 & 10K's and when I got up to running six miles per day boom! The problems poured in due to my flat feet. In my case, my feet collapsed to the inside too far (pronated), which caused a pinching to occur on the outside of my ankle. Needless to say, I could barely walk.

I had orthodics, but did not like them. I gave them up and quit running ultimately, which I loved more than life, but was a fanatic about it. Felt kind of good not to be obsessed over running suddenly.

One thing that you may want to try. This helped incredibly for my flat feet pain. My podiatrist taped my feet a certain way, and it acted as an arch. When I put my foot down, it was like I had an arch, and the pain was almost gone instantly! The tape job is easy, and is use it if I am going to do a lot of running.

These days I play tennis, which is varying angles on the feet, so I don't have pain anymore thankfully. Now I doing a lot of stepping in Xingyi. What a great workout that is if you get after it. I hope that I do not have any foot problems with the Xingyi as I am having more hamstring problems right now rather than foot problems.

Good luck.

crumble
02-12-2002, 09:56 AM
Looks like you got a lot of good advice. I know I'm biased, but please consider the long term when it comes to orthotics. If you do a lot of pounding (running) or carry a lot of weight on one foot, you >could< be wearing out the joint.

My experiance is identical to CD Lee. No discomfort, capable of (relatively!) high-performance -- then crippling pain.

By the way, another thing that happened over all the years without correcting my feet is my tibia and fibra curved! Now I can't use orthotics to fully correct the alignment even if I wanted to.

So think long term.

-crumble

Zantesuken
02-12-2002, 10:27 PM
power is also generated from the bottom of the foot so I guess having your entire geuk ban (bottom of foot) on the ground seems like a good thing heh. my foot isn't flat tho :p

Kaitain(UK)
02-14-2002, 07:03 AM
I don't think having flat feet is a good thing for Taiji - and I don't think it improves rooting/power generation.

The power comes from an effective base combined with efficient positioning of the joints to transmit the force appropriately. If your feet are pronated then the energy will not naturally be travelling up through the joints.

More contact does not mean better contact....

Zantesuken
02-14-2002, 05:32 PM
blah! i don't have flat feet so meh but u never know. those kung fu shoes would tend to give u flat feet so how coudl those kickass masters do it? FLAT FEET! lol i dunno

Lode Runner
02-14-2002, 10:17 PM
Well, as it turns out I'm not insured under my parents anymore so if I see the podiatrist I'll have to pay outta my own pocket. :(
Given my current financial situation, I may have to wait a couple weeks first.

I'll ask him to show me that tape thing you mentioned; I really, REALLY hate wearing shoes so if I could walk around barefoot without messing up my feet anymore it would be cool.

Sam Wiley
02-14-2002, 11:17 PM
I agree with Kaitain's statement that more contact is notthe sam as better contact. The activation point for the Bubbling Well point is right in front of the heel where your weight should be centered, not on the point itself, so having your weight press more on the point doesn't give you an advantage.

fa_jing
02-15-2002, 02:34 PM
There is a yoga exercise for flat feet, you may want to look it up. Basically you squat down with your butt on your heels, feet pointing straight up while balancing on the balls of your feet and toes. Knees are pointing straight in front of you. The next step is to do this balancing only on one foot, with the other foot resting on your thigh. Seems to give a real good stretch for your foot.


-FJ